Renderosity Forums / Poser - OFFICIAL
Welcome to the Poser - OFFICIAL Forum
Forum Coordinators: RedPhantom
Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 18 10:25 pm)
Subject: OT- They've ruined Dr. Who!!!
- 1
- 2
"In universe" they production has dropped seeds of the notion since "The Doctor's Wife" with the doctor switching pronouns when talking about a fellow Time Lord, the Corsair. Then, we had Missy appear, stating she was formerly known as the Master. Finally, in "Hell Bent", the Doctor shoots the lead General (not as attempted murder, merely as a delaying tactic). A senior looking white man collapses; we have the burst of regenerative energy and a youthful black woman stand to her feet, noting it was pleasant to be female...again.
Not only that, but Sidney Newman himself, the "creator" of Doctor Who, recommended that a woman be selected in the mid 80s, Alas, as he was no longer part of the production team, BBC programmer Michael Grade ignored his suggestion and Sylvester McCoy was eventually hired.
While admittedly there are those who object to this decision, quite loudly, the places I've dared visit have been overwhelmingly supportive of the choice.
Finally, as a straight male, I can lust after the Doctor without feeling awkward! ;-)
Sincerely,
Bill
Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"!
Redfern posted at 4:15PM Mon, 17 July 2017 - #4310027
"In universe" they production has dropped seeds of the notion since "The Doctor's Wife" with the doctor switching pronouns when talking about a fellow Time Lord, the Corsair. Then, we had Missy appear, stating she was formerly known as the Master. Finally, in "Hell Bent", the Doctor shoots the lead General (not as attempted murder, merely as a delaying tactic). A senior looking white man collapses; we have the burst of regenerative energy and a youthful black woman stand to her feet, noting it was pleasant to be female...again.
Not only that, but Sidney Newman himself, the "creator" of Doctor Who, recommended that a woman be selected in the mid 80s, Alas, as he was no longer part of the production team, BBC programmer Michael Grade ignored his suggestion and Sylvester McCoy was eventually hired.
While admittedly there are those who object to this decision, quite loudly, the places I've dared visit have been overwhelmingly supportive of the choice.
Finally, as a straight male, I can lust after the Doctor without feeling awkward! ;-)
Sincerely,
Bill
The problem for me Redfern is that this is all smacks of SJW tinkering. In other words, political Correctness. if the Dr. had switched genders at least once before, say in the 80s, I wouldn't care. I'm not very politically correct, and if that makes some people hate me, I'm okay with that. I'm willing to wait and see how things work out. The thing that worries me most is that the Doctor, as a female, will no longer be "heroic". I expect the way she is treated will be different from having a man in the role.
EClark1894 - So, women can't be "heroic". Please.
Look, I know this is hard for older white males, but like it or not White Males are no longer the center of the universe - get over it.
It's been my observation over the years when someone says "I'm not politically correct", what they are really saying is "I have no manners."
ssgbryan posted at 5:36PM Mon, 17 July 2017 - #4310031
EClark1894 - So, women can't be "heroic". Please.
Look, I know this is hard for older white males, but like it or not White Males are no longer the center of the universe - get over it.
It's been my observation over the years when someone says "I'm not politically correct", what they are really saying is "I have no manners."
I really hate when people misquote me Bryan. Why don't you pull the quote where I said that "women can't be heroic." What i said was that I was afraid "that the Doctor, as a female, will no longer** be** "heroic." Now see there's a world of difference between what you alleged I said and meant, and what I actually said and meant." And to clarify things just a little further, I was referring to how they write roles for women and men. I don't want them to do what so many writers do and put the woman in a "damsel in distress" situation and need to be rescued usually by a man. It's also been my experience that when you state that you're not politically correct, that those people who think they are politically correct usually show that they're the ones with no manners. But as I also said, if that makes you hate me for having a different point of view than you, I'm okay with that.
By the way, I'm black, not white.
Content Advisory! This message contains profanity
ssgbryan posted at 4:46PM Mon, 17 July 2017 - #4310031
EClark1894 - So, women can't be "heroic". Please.
Look, I know this is hard for older white males, but like it or not White Males are no longer the center of the universe - get over it.
It's been my observation over the years when someone says "I'm not politically correct", what they are really saying is "I have no manners."
That's a bit harsh. I too asked why? It's not that I have an issue with female leads, though I do wonder why they have to change something that has worked for how many years now? It's not a big deal to me because I don't watch the show, but I still asked why?
And Earl didn't say a woman can't be heroic; he said: "She won't." Too often women aren't portrayed are heroic in shows. Instead, they're more of a bitch than anything else, which is sad.
And before you accuse me of being a crotchety, old white guy also, please note I'm a woman and barely middle aged.
Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage
Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10
I think it's refreshing to have female Doc Who. I would have expected one a bit earlier. Didn't the Brits have a female PM some 30 yrs ago?
It's the twenty freaking first century.
Software: Daz Studio 4.15, Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7
Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM, RTX 3090 .
"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss
"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock
So.
A time travelling alien in a police box is fine.
But make it a woman and suddenly its not fine?
Think on that.
As a lifelong (and I mean lifelong, been watching since I was a baby, my first real memory is the Regeneration of Pertwee into Baker) fan, I'm fine with this.
The Doctor is the Doctor. Man, woman, small furry creature from alpha centuri... It's the Doctor.
Plus who said he was a man as we know one anyway? Could be Gallifreyan genitals are swapped....
drafter69 posted at 4:10PM Tue, 18 July 2017 - #4310103
The idea that if you don't have a penis you can't be a time lord is insane. I have wanted a woman doctor since David Tennant left. My first choice was Helen Miran but this new woman is a wonderful choice.
When exactly did I or anyone else say that? I even said my favorite Time Lord, other than the Doctor, was Romana. But as long as you're ranting, mind telling us WHY? a woman is such a good idea?
EClark1894 posted at 11:58PM Tue, 18 July 2017 - #4310119
drafter69 posted at 4:10PM Tue, 18 July 2017 - #4310103
The idea that if you don't have a penis you can't be a time lord is insane. I have wanted a woman doctor since David Tennant left. My first choice was Helen Miran but this new woman is a wonderful choice.
When exactly did I or anyone else say that? I even said my favorite Time Lord, other than the Doctor, was Romana. But as long as you're ranting, mind telling us WHY? a woman is such a good idea?
To bring in folks that haven't watched the show before.
ssgbryan posted at 5:01AM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310155
EClark1894 posted at 11:58PM Tue, 18 July 2017 - #4310119
drafter69 posted at 4:10PM Tue, 18 July 2017 - #4310103
The idea that if you don't have a penis you can't be a time lord is insane. I have wanted a woman doctor since David Tennant left. My first choice was Helen Miran but this new woman is a wonderful choice.
When exactly did I or anyone else say that? I even said my favorite Time Lord, other than the Doctor, was Romana. But as long as you're ranting, mind telling us WHY? a woman is such a good idea?
To bring in folks that haven't watched the show before.
Why would a woman bring in anyone that wasn't already watching the show? Is she going to be doing something different from the men in the role? I'm not against having a woman in the role. I'm against having a woman in the role because of a social media trend to change all the men in these stories like Thor, Iron Man, and now Dr. Who into women for no good reason. Hell, tell me something... like since the Dr. has reached the end of his regenerations changing gender renews the process for Time Lords. I can accept an explanation like that a whole lot better than "just 'cause" or "about time". And it ties into the whole Dr. Who mythos rather than just "hey why not".
Khai-J-Bach posted at 8:16AM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310165
So, it's anti pc brigade sentiment, not logic. Got it.
Outta here. No point arguing.
Logic? I've been asking for a logical reason for the change all along and all I get is "because" and "why not" and it's about time".. Not one logical reason at all. And yet, I'm the one who's being vilified because I dare to disagree. You guys even keep misquoting me or keep ascribing meanings and thoughts to me that I don't have. Got it. I see where you're coming from now at least.
A_Sunbeam posted at 8:25AM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310169
We'll just have to wait and see how it goes. I haven't seen any of the shows she has been in.
There have been Doctors I liked and Doctors I didn't; my favourites are still Tom Baker and Matt Smith. Mind you, if the scripts are rubbish then no change of Doctor will save them.
I know what you mean. Personally, I didn't like Davidson, Baker's replacement, or Eccleston.
EClark1894 posted at 2:25PM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310170
Khai-J-Bach posted at 8:16AM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310165
So, it's anti pc brigade sentiment, not logic. Got it.
Outta here. No point arguing.
Logic? I've been asking for a logical reason for the change all along and all I get is "because" and "why not" and it's about time".. Not one logical reason at all. And yet, I'm the one who's being vilified because I dare to disagree. You guys even keep misquoting me or keep ascribing meanings and thoughts to me that I don't have. Got it. I see where you're coming from now at least.
But why does it need a logical reason? Surely the thing that would need a justification would be not considering women for the role.
EClark1894 posted at 1:03PM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310170
Logic? I've been asking for a logical reason for the change all along and all I get is "because" and "why not" and it's about time".. Not one logical reason at all. And yet, I'm the one who's being vilified because I dare to disagree. You guys even keep misquoting me or keep ascribing meanings and thoughts to me that I don't have. Got it. I see where you're coming from now at least.
You certainly haven't made a logical argument for keeping the Doctor male - It has always been thus isn't logic - it's inertia.
Was 12 male Doctors in a row not enough? Btw, if you don't like people making an adverse (in this case, sexist) evaluation of you, I suggest that you choose your words more carefully - words have meaning.
Whether you like it or not, White Male isn't going to stay an automatic default for characters in ANY medium. The BBC will have the opportunity to take the character in new directions. Sorta like how BSG gender switched Starbuck - that was a massive improvement over the 1980's version.
We are seeing the same thing in graphic novels (how Nick Fury went from the old white guy in my youth to Samuel L. Jackson - massive improvement). For some reason, I don't believe that being female will prevent Cpt Marvel from being badass.
Now, watch me tie this to Poser and bring the topic somewhat on topic ;p)......
The number one reason that I don't subscribe to the "one mesh to rule them all" is that over 95% of the characters are early to mid 20's Caucasians (have you counted? Because I have) that all appear to come from the same family tree. That isn't a problem if one's goal is to be a 3rd rate George Petty wannabe - moving out of the pin-up ghetto means that as a 3rd rate graphic artist, I need a wide variety of ages, genders, and races.
Which is why I am looking forward to Ambient Shades characters - I doubt they will go any farther than any other non-DAZ figure in Poser, but every little bit helps.
ssgbryan posted at 6:35PM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310216
EClark1894 posted at 1:03PM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310170
Logic? I've been asking for a logical reason for the change all along and all I get is "because" and "why not" and it's about time".. Not one logical reason at all. And yet, I'm the one who's being vilified because I dare to disagree. You guys even keep misquoting me or keep ascribing meanings and thoughts to me that I don't have. Got it. I see where you're coming from now at least.
You certainly haven't made a logical argument for keeping the Doctor male - It has always been thus isn't logic - it's inertia.
Was 12 male Doctors in a row not enough? Btw, if you don't like people making an adverse (in this case, sexist) evaluation of you, I suggest that you choose your words more carefully - words have meaning.
Whether you like it or not, White Male isn't going to stay an automatic default for characters in ANY medium. The BBC will have the opportunity to take the character in new directions. Sorta like how BSG gender switched Starbuck - that was a massive improvement over the 1980's version.
We are seeing the same thing in graphic novels (how Nick Fury went from the old white guy in my youth to Samuel L. Jackson - massive improvement). For some reason, I don't believe that being female will prevent Cpt Marvel from being badass.
Now, watch me tie this to Poser and bring the topic somewhat on topic ;p)......
The number one reason that I don't subscribe to the "one mesh to rule them all" is that over 95% of the characters are early to mid 20's Caucasians (have you counted? Because I have) that all appear to come from the same family tree. That isn't a problem if one's goal is to be a 3rd rate George Petty wannabe - moving out of the pin-up ghetto means that as a 3rd rate graphic artist, I need a wide variety of ages, genders, and races.
Which is why I am looking forward to Ambient Shades characters - I doubt they will go any farther than any other non-DAZ figure in Poser, but every little bit helps.
Oh geez bryan your last statement has nothing to do with with the topic. You still haven't given a logical reason for the gender change, you just said, nuh unh to tthe reason I gave. I disagree, again, but it's what I've come to expect in this thread. I don't think I'm ever going to get an reasoned answer.
Oh, and none of you guys have quoted me correctly once yet, so I rather doubt that my choice of words is a problem. You're making stuff up as you go along anyway.
Changing for the sake of changing isn't logical. If the story line called for the character to change, great. If the best actor to audition was a woman, awesome. If they did it to be PC, that's a cop out. Why change a well-established figure so much? There have been 12 Dr. Whos. All men. It's been on for how many seasons? Seems like a man in the role was working. Isn't it illogical to try to fix what is already working?
Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage
Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10
Some of the arguments I've heard amongst friends include...
In the 1st series the character was originally written/described as "a kindly Grandfather", so it goes against the concept.
Sometimes characters are male, for example Poirot, Sherlock Holmes or Father Christmas. Others female like Marple or Tennison and it's their gender that makes the character. Change it, to say a male Hetty Wainthropp, and you lose something.
For the price of 1 episode of Dr Who, you could get a couple of series of "edited" reality shows, so makes sense to try and nobble Who.
Personally my lowly non-BBC-presenter salary 
is on stuff like media politics and writing.
The beeb has moved to Manchester and wants to be more reflective of modern Britain, focus on regions, diverse culture etc etc. They also want to distance themselves from whats seen as old school "London" focused programming.
With writing, (especially hollywood movies) it seems like theres a constant need to "reboot" everything.
Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.
No they haven't ruined it, and it's Doctor Who, not Dr Who.
Long past due for a female lead, since the show established Time Lords can change gender. Now we need more BAME actors in the role, too.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
SamTherapy posted at 6:37PM Thu, 20 July 2017 - #4310300
No they haven't ruined it, and it's Doctor Who, not Dr Who.
Long past due for a female lead, since the show established Time Lords can change gender. Now we need more BAME actors in the role, too.
I disagree, Sam, but frankly, I just don't care anymore. It's their show they can do what they want. I wonder if they'll keep him female for 12 more Doctors?
I very much doubt it. I reckon they'll have a few female leads, then a male and so forth. Mind you, the BBC are already in hot water over pay disparity between their male and female stars so who knows?
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Why do I think it's "genius"? Because this opens up potential for a character with more diverse depth and opportunity. Women can be heroic ... lest we forget "Xena: Warrior Princess". I can see the concerns that the writers will stereotype gender portrayals both of the character herself and of how others treat her. BUT in going back in time ... this could also open up great story lines.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted at 6:26PM Sun, 23 July 2017 - #4310324
Why do I think it's "genius"? Because this opens up potential for a character with more diverse depth and opportunity. Women can be heroic ... lest we forget "Xena: Warrior Princess". I can see the concerns that the writers will stereotype gender portrayals both of the character herself and of how others treat her. BUT in going back in time ... this could also open up great story lines. I didn't say women couldn't be heroic. My favorite super hero is Wonder Woman, I'm not a big fan of Xena though, because I actually fault her for a Wonder Woman movie taking so long to make it to the big screen. And anyone who's ever actually read my webcomics Android or _Crickett McGuire _knows that both my protagonists are in fact female. And despite what everyone wants so badly to think, I'm not even against the idea of a female Doctor, although I would prefer either a new character or an alternative reality female Doctor.
At the moment we have a doctor who, since the series was revived, is clearly affected by the Time War and his part in it. His female companion has been frequently very good at helping him with the emotional stress that has plagued each of his regenerated selves. But if the female regeneration continues to agonise over the past, and has a male companion to support her - aren't we resurrecting an old stereotype here? One that will not please the feminists.
It will be interesting.
Questioning about whether the actress cast is likely to be a good fit? Fine. Worried about the writers will forget that they're writing the Doctor just because she's female? Fair enough. Appalled that the producers had the temerity to cast a woman to play a member of an alien species which has previously been established to switch identities, including gender, throughout their multiple lives? Yeah, sure come up with all sorts of reasons but it comes down to not wanting a character to come down with girl cooties. Which is all sorts of amusingly sad.
Keith posted at 8:14AM Tue, 25 July 2017 - #4310659
Yeah, sure come up with all sorts of reasons but it comes down to not wanting a character to come down with girl cooties. Which is all sorts of amusingly sad.
That had not actually occurred to me. My point was not that they had a female Time Lord in charge (Romana would have made a good Doctor), but that the female incarnation of the actual Doctor would also be affected by the Time War experiences.
Your comment (quoted) would certainly apply to many of the posters on Gallifrey Forum and elsewhere ...
Keith posted at 2:38PM Tue, 25 July 2017 - #4310659
Questioning about whether the actress cast is likely to be a good fit? Fine. Worried about the writers will forget that they're writing the Doctor just because she's female? Fair enough. Appalled that the producers had the temerity to cast a woman to play a member of an alien species which has previously been established to switch identities, including gender, throughout their multiple lives? Yeah, sure come up with all sorts of reasons but it comes down to not wanting a character to come down with girl cooties. Which is all sorts of amusingly sad.
Nice one!
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Apropos of nothing, the first Doctor debating his momentous decision to flee Gallifrey as finally depicted in "Name of the Doctor". (Susan has not yet arrived.)
I "cheated" and gave the "un-chameleoned" capsule a thin "plinth" or "lip" under the door. It seems to me if the undisguised space/time machine were to materialize upon uneven ground, the door would scrape as it opened and closed.
Sincerely,
Bill
Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"!
SamTherapy posted at 1:09PM Tue, 25 July 2017 - #4310684
Keith posted at 2:38PM Tue, 25 July 2017 - #4310659
Questioning about whether the actress cast is likely to be a good fit? Fine. Worried about the writers will forget that they're writing the Doctor just because she's female? Fair enough. Appalled that the producers had the temerity to cast a woman to play a member of an alien species which has previously been established to switch identities, including gender, throughout their multiple lives? Yeah, sure come up with all sorts of reasons but it comes down to not wanting a character to come down with girl cooties. Which is all sorts of amusingly sad.
Nice one!
Well, let's just backtrack a moment here, as the gender change aspect of regeneration is a relatively new development (2010). Previously, the Doctor has always regenerated as a humanoid male. It's also been hinted at that the Doctor can have two heads, let's go for that next.
In 1986, the producer largely responsible to bringing the character to TV in 1963 recommended to the BBC that a future version of the Doctor be female. In 1999, the novel Interference - Book One explicitly mentioned Time Lords changing genders, and there's been fanon for decades assuming that it could take place. So it's hardly a new development, it's been one that just hadn't made it to screen.
Saying that because they didn't mention it meant it didn't exist is roughly akin to saying no one in Starfleet has to take a crap because they never showed a toilet on the Enterprise.
Keith posted at 7:47AM Fri, 28 July 2017 - #4310867
In 1986, the producer largely responsible to bringing the character to TV in 1963 recommended to the BBC that a future version of the Doctor be female. In 1999, the novel Interference - Book One explicitly mentioned Time Lords changing genders, and there's been fanon for decades assuming that it could take place. So it's hardly a new development, it's been one that just hadn't made it to screen.
Saying that because they didn't mention it meant it didn't exist is roughly akin to saying no one in Starfleet has to take a crap because they never showed a toilet on the Enterprise.
Hmm, so you're saying that everything that ever happened to the Doctor, even things that were merely suggested by writers as a potential plot, or in comics, books or movies actually happened even though the producers say it didn't?
And just to reiterate, I'm not against a woman as a Time Lord. I'm against a woman playing THIS particular Time Lord. Of course the fact that I've like heroic female leads before like Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Xena, and Buffy is all negated by the fact that I'm so against this one instance.
EClark1849 posted at 3:23PM Fri, 28 July 2017 - #4310709
SamTherapy posted at 1:09PM Tue, 25 July 2017 - #4310684
Keith posted at 2:38PM Tue, 25 July 2017 - #4310659
Questioning about whether the actress cast is likely to be a good fit? Fine. Worried about the writers will forget that they're writing the Doctor just because she's female? Fair enough. Appalled that the producers had the temerity to cast a woman to play a member of an alien species which has previously been established to switch identities, including gender, throughout their multiple lives? Yeah, sure come up with all sorts of reasons but it comes down to not wanting a character to come down with girl cooties. Which is all sorts of amusingly sad.
Nice one!
Well, let's just backtrack a moment here, as the gender change aspect of regeneration is a relatively new development (2010). Previously, the Doctor has always regenerated as a humanoid male. It's also been hinted at that the Doctor can have two heads, let's go for that next.
If they can do a good job of it, why not?
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
SamTherapy posted at 11:45AM Fri, 28 July 2017 - #4310886
EClark1849 posted at 3:23PM Fri, 28 July 2017 - #4310709
SamTherapy posted at 1:09PM Tue, 25 July 2017 - #4310684
Keith posted at 2:38PM Tue, 25 July 2017 - #4310659
Questioning about whether the actress cast is likely to be a good fit? Fine. Worried about the writers will forget that they're writing the Doctor just because she's female? Fair enough. Appalled that the producers had the temerity to cast a woman to play a member of an alien species which has previously been established to switch identities, including gender, throughout their multiple lives? Yeah, sure come up with all sorts of reasons but it comes down to not wanting a character to come down with girl cooties. Which is all sorts of amusingly sad.
Nice one!
Well, let's just backtrack a moment here, as the gender change aspect of regeneration is a relatively new development (2010). Previously, the Doctor has always regenerated as a humanoid male. It's also been hinted at that the Doctor can have two heads, let's go for that next.
If they can do a good job of it, why not?
Right o, Sam. We even seen the Doctor turn dark before. Who's to say that eventually he won't turn tinto the Master?
I guess he could become evil, given time. There was an evil character, Valeyard, who claimed to be a later incarnation of the Doc, so who knows?
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
I found this video on YouTube and thought I'd share it with you.
All looking at this the wrong way. There should be no problem with a female doctor. Could/should be cool. The problem will be with the companion, who will probably wind up being a series of dumb, weak, pansy men. (unless they want to do the LGBT vibe sort of thing...)
I'd rather stay in my lane than lay in my stain!
I do wonder though, will they be writing her as a female, as if she were naturally born that way, or writing her as a man who has suddenly been turned female and on occasion forgets she's not a man anymore. That last part makes me wonder if she's written that way will the people who wanted a female Doctor feel cheated?
- 1
- 2
Privacy Notice
This site uses cookies to deliver the best experience. Our own cookies make user accounts and other features possible. Third-party cookies are used to display relevant ads and to analyze how Renderosity is used. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understood our Terms of Service, including our Cookie Policy and our Privacy Policy.
Those damn dirty, Brits!!! They're ruining the best sci-fi show currently on tv.. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against women or Female Time Lords. My favorite Time Lord ever, aside from the Doctor, was Romana. Since i don't have a choice, I'm going to see how this move plays out. Maybe they'll win me over... but probably not.