So here's the deal. I want to create a new category on my directory called "Content Creation". What I want to do is list Programs people use to create 3d models for use in Poser and Studio.

I know this may sound weird, but I need a definition of the term "modeling software". Wikipedia seems to have a rather broad definition of the term. It thinks Poser, Studio, and Windows 10 3D Paint are 3d modelers.

Think its difficult to define, but I would probably go with any software capable of manipulating a base mesh, with 3 or more vertices in 3D space and which can be manipulated even after being sub divided.

Ha ha... I was thinking it would just be any program capable of generating the original base mesh. I worked with a couple modelers before sub-division was ubiquitous, Modeler 3D (which evolved into Lightwave's Modeler) was especially basic. You selected your work "plane" in one of the three windows and added individual points in another window. Technically you could make anything this way (if you had the time and patience of course).
Here's how I look at it... Basic modeling functions are things like: Load/create primitive.. lathe/extrude.. boolean cutting/joining.. point/edge/face tools.. While bone creation, skinning, weighting... All of that is specific to rigging animated characters. Most programs of Poser's complexity have basic modeling tools. But if you simply want to know what constitutes a modeling program (vs. a sculpting program or general purpose program) take a look at one of the number of programs which only focus on modeling: http://www.wings3d.com/ https://www.inivis.com/ http://www.metaseq.net/en/

I agree with moogal's take.

For the record, I make all my stuff in Wings.

Wikipedia seems to have a rather broad definition of the term. It thinks Poser, Studio, and Windows 10 3D Paint are 3d modelers.

I'm not sure about DS as I've never tried doing it, and I don't have windows 10 (first I've ever heard of 3D Paint), but I know that in Poser you technically can create models using the various primitives from the library, along with the grouping tool and very precise movements along the x, y and z axis. Dr Geep had several tutorials back in the day showing exactly how to make everything from barstools to houses using nothing but primitives and the grouping tool. Those were my first adventures into creating models back when I first started using Poser. Not sure if those tutorials are still available anywhere tho.

But as for what other people use, if you wanted to make a list you'd pretty much have to list every modeling software out there that's available to the public, as every one of them have been used by someone at some point to create models for Poser. It seems the most common ones used these days are wings3D, Blender, Silo, Hexagon, Shade3D, and maybe 3DS. They're the most often mentioned at least, and most affordable to the hobbyist budget aside from 3DS (which also remains the most pirated 3D software out there, so there's that).

AmbientShade posted at 4:31PM Wed, 01 November 2017 - #4317157

Wikipedia seems to have a rather broad definition of the term. It thinks Poser, Studio, and Windows 10 3D Paint are 3d modelers.

I'm not sure about DS as I've never tried doing it, and I don't have windows 10 (first I've ever heard of 3D Paint), but I know that in Poser you technically can create models using the various primitives from the library, along with the grouping tool and very precise movements along the x, y and z axis. Dr Geep had several tutorials back in the day showing exactly how to make everything from barstools to houses using nothing but primitives and the grouping tool. Those were my first adventures into creating models back when I first started using Poser. Not sure if those tutorials are still available anywhere tho.

But as for what other people use, if you wanted to make a list you'd pretty much have to list every modeling software out there that's available to the public, as every one of them have been used by someone at some point to create models for Poser. It seems the most common ones used these days are wings3D, Blender, Silo, Hexagon, Shade3D, and maybe 3DS. They're the most often mentioned at least, and most affordable to the hobbyist budget aside from 3DS (which also remains the most pirated 3D software out there, so there's that).

I don't know Shane, I think that's pretty much like Wikipedia's take on modeling. At best, what you describe for Poser is the same as kit bashing. Something I used to do when i was younger. I once bought some models of a Y fighter from Star Wars, the Galatica from Battle Star Galatica and the Queen Mary and put together a model of the Space cruiser Yamato from StarBlazers. I'm not even sure you could call it yours to sell.

Kind of like kit bashing, yes. Only you're not taking parts of other fleshed out models, just using primitives which are free to use by everyone. With the grouping tool you can extract individual polys from those primitives and then put them together with other polys. Scale, translate, etc, export and reimport so that they're one object. I'm not sure what you'd do for UV maps tho, as its been too long since I messed with it. Would have to use procedurals instead I think. Or just solid colors. Or just use a program that's actually meant for full modeling. But the point was that you can make custom models without leaving poser, though it's not very practical and there are better, easier ways of going about it.

Earl? I don't know if you remember dr Geep. He made "everything" in Poser. From doors, windows, complete rooms and houses, chairs, he made it all, and had a TON of tutorials starting out with the Poser primitives. SubD came a LOT later. He did it by placing and scaling the primitives, then exporting with weld enabled, importing again, and continuing adding stuff.

My apps over time are : anim8or, Hexagon, Blender.

Search for dr Geep here at rendero and you can certainly find a LOT of stuff and tutorials.

Look here :http://drgeep.basicwiz.com/NPU/Directories/LL.html

Richt click on the little arrow, and continue to click on the right arrow box, then enter the room you want to visit.

Or do a google image search for dr Geep poser studio?

At the time? his tutorials were legendary..

There's always going to be a bit of blurring between the functions of one thing and another as stuff becomes more complex and capable. It's a little like modern phones, which you can use to take pictures, waste time on Facebook, play games and even make calls. If, however, you're a serious photographer, you'll buy a real camera, with a single function of taking pictures. If you are a diehard gamer, you'll invest in a decent gaming computer and so on.

It's fair to say you can make models in Poser but the faff factor is such that, beyond a bit of low level tinkering, it's much better to use a program designed specifically for the purpose. Then again, you can get world class renders out of Max, Maya and so on...

As they say round this part of the world, it's a rum do, and no mistake.

moogal posted at 11:16PM Wed, 01 November 2017 - #4317153

Ha ha... I was thinking it would just be any program capable of generating the original base mesh. I worked with a couple modelers before sub-division was ubiquitous, Modeler 3D (which evolved into Lightwave's Modeler) was especially basic. You selected your work "plane" in one of the three windows and added individual points in another window. Technically you could make anything this way (if you had the time and patience of course).
Here's how I look at it... Basic modeling functions are things like: Load/create primitive.. lathe/extrude.. boolean cutting/joining.. point/edge/face tools.. While bone creation, skinning, weighting... All of that is specific to rigging animated characters. Most programs of Poser's complexity have basic modeling tools. But if you simply want to know what constitutes a modeling program (vs. a sculpting program or general purpose program) take a look at one of the number of programs which only focus on modeling: http://www.wings3d.com/ https://www.inivis.com/ http://www.metaseq.net/en/

As said I think its hard to define, but I don't think what defines a modelling software is whether it can boolean or not for instance, those are extra features, but nothing that define it. Because even without those functionalities you would still be able to model very complex models. If a software is capable of creating and manipulate a 3d shape in 3d space it at least to me is a modelling software. However if you are unable to divide your mesh, like in poser you can use the morph brush to manipulate vertices but you cant add or remove them, which makes modelling extremely limited, to the point where I wouldn't call it a modelling software.

As 3D-Mobster mentioned Boolean functions, it's worth pointing out that Wings can't do them natively. There's an extension/plug in called MLab which can do 'em but is, as far as I can tell, no longer available.

That said, my version of Wings is a couple of years old, so who knows?

I would say that a modeler is intended for, specialized in, optimized for creating/modifying geometry. Geometry creation and manipulation is a modeler's raison d'etre.

Poser, at best, can only generate mesh as an obscure tangential function, and awkwardly at that. I would consider Poser a 3D rendering studio, not a modeler.

seachnasaigh posted at 12:18PM Sat, 04 November 2017 - #4317182

I would say that a modeler is intended for, specialized in, optimized for creating/modifying geometry. Geometry creation and manipulation is a modeler's raison d'etre.

Poser, at best, can only generate mesh as an obscure tangential function, and awkwardly at that. I would consider Poser a 3D rendering studio, not a modeler.

^--- This.

Poser doesn't create geometry. At least, not natively. It "can" using python scripts, but that's just because python can do that and it supports those functions. Poser can be used to manipulate and render geometry as well as create certain poser-specific materials and, of course, as a rigging tool. In short, it's a renderer and animation solution with some basic geometry manipulation.

Due to possible confusion, I wouldn't try to redefine 3D modeling. Wikipedia's take is "good enough", no real need to redefine things. If the user is interested in a package, they'll go look at it for themselves.

3D-Mobster posted at 3:18PM Sun, 05 November 2017 - #4317177

moogal posted at 11:16PM Wed, 01 November 2017 - #4317153

Ha ha... I was thinking it would just be any program capable of generating the original base mesh. I worked with a couple modelers before sub-division was ubiquitous, Modeler 3D (which evolved into Lightwave's Modeler) was especially basic. You selected your work "plane" in one of the three windows and added individual points in another window. Technically you could make anything this way (if you had the time and patience of course).
Here's how I look at it... Basic modeling functions are things like: Load/create primitive.. lathe/extrude.. boolean cutting/joining.. point/edge/face tools.. While bone creation, skinning, weighting... All of that is specific to rigging animated characters. Most programs of Poser's complexity have basic modeling tools. But if you simply want to know what constitutes a modeling program (vs. a sculpting program or general purpose program) take a look at one of the number of programs which only focus on modeling: http://www.wings3d.com/ https://www.inivis.com/ http://www.metaseq.net/en/

As said I think its hard to define, but I don't think what defines a modelling software is whether it can boolean or not for instance, those are extra features, but nothing that define it. Because even without those functionalities you would still be able to model very complex models. If a software is capable of creating and manipulate a 3d shape in 3d space it at least to me is a modelling software. However if you are unable to divide your mesh, like in poser you can use the morph brush to manipulate vertices but you cant add or remove them, which makes modelling extremely limited, to the point where I wouldn't call it a modelling software.

I just meant that certain tools/operators such as booleans are most commonly found in modeling programs, just like path extruding and lathing (and none of these are part of Wing's tool set). The first polygon modelers simply let you connect points to make polygons, had some cut/copy/paste functions and maybe parametric primitives. Then there were some tools that worked with nurbs or spline patches. And while Wings is just a modeler, its winged-edge internal structure which produces manifold (closed) meshes is in many ways an improvement over earlier poly modelers. There are multiple methodologies a modeling tool can use to achieve similar results. Just as Poser can technically be used to make models but lacks proper modeling tools, programs like 3DS, blender, Shade etc. go far beyond what is required just to make a mesh. If a program has a timeline, a complex material editor, and a relatively full-featured renderer, it's likely more than just a modeler.