Hi Guys,

I am wondering if there is someone in L.A. who might be interested in spending an hour or two showing me the details of Poser keyframes. I could pay you $50.00 for your time and it would be a huge help to me, because there is very little on line about how to really work this section. I know it a bit and have used it, but it's buggy, and if I can work it better, I am sure I could get more out of it. Just throwing it out there. I live in Studio City.

You can either respond to this thread of send me a site email. Thanks...

Cheers...Ian

Will just start by saying that I don't live in L.A., just to get that sorted :D

But animation is very difficult and as you say there is not a lot of good tutorials available for animating in Poser, as far as I know. But I think you can get help by watching tutorials made for other programs, as the basic concept of animation is pretty much the same regardless of software. Obviously these applications might have more advance tools than Poser, look differently etc, but the overall concept remain the same and you should be able to do all of it in Poser. So hopefully this won't scare you off.

Also I think a lot of people might underestimate how long time it take to animate and expect cool animations in a very short time, not saying that you are like this, but I think its healthy to always keep that in the back of once head, because it can be very frustrating doing animations. I have only worked a little with it my self and are not an expert in the Poser animation room by any means. But i know the feeling of adding key frames here and there and then suddenly everything screws up. From the description of one of the tutorials, it is estimated that you have to spend approximately 1 hour to make 1 second of character animation, this obviously depend on what you are making, but just to make it clear that it takes a long time to do.

I know that what you are seeking help with, is the Poser animation window, but I think you are going about it a bit wrong. Because its a tool, which is crucial to master, if you want to make anything, but animating have a lot to do with principles and knowing the theory behind it and if you know these and how they work then at least from my understanding, the tool you use to do it, is less important. Because all these different 3D applications share a more or less common way of working with animating, and its no different in Poser.

So what I would suggest is to start very simple and go from there.

For instant start with a simple Sphere which you make go up in the air, let it hang there for half a second, go back to the ground and do a couple of bounces, wait for 1 second and then roll off or something like that. Even though the animation doesn't make any sense, I think it would help you get used to the different keys, timing etc. And just keep expanding from there. And leave the characters for a while...and when you feel that you are somewhat familiar with that, then make a walk cycle.

But anyway that is just my advice, here are some tutorials that I think explain the workflow well, keys and so forth. As mentioned these are not done in Poser, but in other applications such as Maya, which I my self have no experience with either, so I don't base this on me actually knowing these programs either and therefore have an easier time understanding them.

Tutorials

1. The basic principles of animation, I think this is crucial just as a base knowledge.

12 Principles of Animation

1. Basic Walk Cycle

Basic Walk Cycle

1. Basic Character Animation

Basic Character Animation

I've already animated a fari amount of things in Poser, and yes true animation takes a very long time, but Poser is unique in that it has pre-made, pre rigged models (sorry, just don't like calling them dolls) and so in theory, it is as easy as starting a pose or camera at one position and then moving down the time line and repositioning the pose or camera. That's also what's frustating about it, because it doesn't seem to work that well, probably because there is something I am doing wrong, or how I'm setting things up etc.

I've worked with key-frames in tons of other programs, not animation, but music, sound, and video and this just seems buggy. And, although I appreciate your input, I am not going about it wrong. Beating your head against a wall is not the best way to learn. I learn best from watching someone do something and then repeating it, and since there isn't much online for me to do that, hiring someone to show me a few things is the most intelligent thing to do.

I will say that is may be in the wrong section however. I saw a section for posting job types of things. Perhaps I'll try that.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my post. I appreciate it. Cheers...Ian

PS You did make a good point about testing. Since I recently had some great help by someone on this forum, it gave me a little more insight on the keyframes, so I just did some tests with the models and I'm getting a better idea of setting things up. Your post inspired me. Thanks and thanks for the links...

I have only done very simple key framing when it comes to movies and music, so might be wrong, But I think animation works a bit differently, especially when its a character. Because you usually key frame a single attribute like fade in / fade out in a movie, which doesn't affect anything else. Whereas if you key frame a character you might add keys to some part of the body and it might look good and all, but then later you might key frame another body part and suddenly it affects the rest of the animation. and at the same time you work in 3 dimensions, both when it comes to position, rotation and scale and on top of that you have to add timing, whereas you only work in 2 dimension in movies and music as far as I understand. (But might be wrong :D)

I have gotten the reaction a few times about beating once head against the wall when it comes to animation, I don't really understand why people say that about learning, especially a trial and error approach. My guess is as you also mentioned in your first reply, that peoples approach to animating in Poser and most likely Daz3D as well, is that because you have a fully rigged character available, which is easy to pose then animating them must be equally easy and when it ain't they get frustrated, which i think is a natural reaction. But there are no "this is the one true way of doing it" kinda solution, if you just add this key here and that key here, then everything works. So when im talking about starting simple and do a trial and error approach, its to learn what the different key does and what effect they have on an object, changing the curves etc. to me it just makes the most sense to start with a simple object to reduce complexity. And once that is understood you can start working with characters, which to me will be a lot easier if you are not fighting the animation tool at the same time and not really being sure what it can and can't do. So for me when I look at these tutorials, i don't really care what buttons he is pressing, but where he put his keys, which workflow he have, like starting with the hips, then the legs and adding more and more details. And sure it will go wrong a lot of times, but hopefully every time it does, you can figure out why and improve that way. I really don't think there is a lot of other ways to learn animation than trial and error. Because you never know what type of animation you are doing, what objects might be involved etc. So to me the bare minimum or best help is to get the principles and theory behind animation correct and learning the tool for actually doing something will come automatically as you practice and try to apply these things.

I don't hope you take this as an attack on you, because its not meant as such, more like a wondering, to why people wanting to animate (especially) always refer to it as being like banging once head against a wall. Animation is an art form just like learning to draw or creating an image in my opinion, you simply can't read a book and suddenly you are good at drawing, only practice and learning the theory behind it will help make it easier learn. I do agree, that its valid as you started out in your OP, that you were interested in getting help with the tool, because that is important, so nothing wrong in that. I just wanted to offer you another approach, should you fail finding someone.

Chuck Taylor (Nerd 3D) is giving a 2-day seminar on Poser Animation, it's free. May 12th and 13th:

https://digitalartlive.com/event/the-complete-guide-to-animation-in-poser/?_hsenc=p2ANqtz--U2L6wSCX0zDn9ynpDmJFZMuFBB7vrp0fp8c0nFseg572UHSWnJ0qCU74y-Xg0RtA8l9nz-lzwb3WDgM4QmF1m7iIfmg&_hsmi=62388207

Chuck. Thank you. Much appreciated...

3D Monster... In technical creation, buttons and switches are perhaps the most important thing to learn. It is your instrument. It's like learning guitar if you don't learn in the proper way with good technique and know your fret board and the notes on it (which most people don't by the way) your playing will always be limited. Knowing your instrument is the first step and the reason that I am having problems now. I don't know it well enough.

Thanks for your input and that is the end of my input on this. I don't wish to get into a friendly philosophical debate on this. Cheers...Ian

Thanks Movida. Appreciate it