Here is one hell of a challenge for the Carrara unconditionals. Create a Vampire Effect with V4.

Victoria is in a room full of furniture, gothic, antic, archaic, or whatever. She is standing in front of a mirror. Everything in the room reflects in the mirror, except Victoria. Why because she is a vampire, and we all know that vampires don't reflect in mirrors, like in this movie The Lost Boys.

Rules: No cheating, no photoshoping, no compositing allowed. Everything must be done in one render.

Go ahead Carrara aficionados, give it your best shot. Awooooo ooooo oooooo oooooo....

and will you too in iClone or some other software or just post some unrelated video like before?

I am not going to even bother simply because I never do anything even in iClone in one render no compositing as it is just a counterproductive workflow.

Way to lead, D. Bernie. Best image in the thread. Could you post a screenshot of your setup within Carrara?

Here is my entry in the "not Carrara and not by me" category. I think it is much better than Lost Boys, but that is really just a matter of personal taste. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/50/8b/a7/508ba799477bad376b7eb394bd4cd2a7.jpg

A total lack of entries in this thread proves only what I was suspecting all along: You cannot create a 'Vampire Effect' in Carrara. You cannot tell Carrara that a certain object, or a certain surface, does not reflect in a mirror.

Well, Shade3D has such a feature. You can specify that a given surface has no reflection, for a neat and clean vampire effect. As soon as I have time I will give you all a solid proof of this very clever feature in Shade3D.

dr_bernie posted at 4:47PM Sun, 15 July 2018 - #4333129

A total lack of entries in this thread proves only what I was suspecting all along: You cannot create a 'Vampire Effect' in Carrara. You cannot tell Carrara that a certain object, or a certain surface, does not reflect in a mirror.

Well, Shade3D has such a feature. You can specify that a given surface has no reflection, for a neat and clean vampire effect. As soon as I have time I will give you all a solid proof of this very clever feature in Shade3D.

are you actually going to render it yourself not use someone else's render and do the same topic?

Dr. Bernie, when you tried this in Carrara, can only help you if you provide screenshots.

• what were your settings in the reflection channels in Carrara?
• Which modifiers did you choose for the objects? What settings did you use in Carrara?
• Did you use toon override for each object? Did you then reset the toon settings back to zero to get realistic objects even though the toon render would then exclude certain things like hair (and maybe reflection)? Tell us which Carrara settings you have tried. Carrara screenshots, Carrara screenshots, Carrara screenshots.

a man of straw throwing stones, I never saw a render of M4 walking and chewing gum by him in any software, just a premade iClone scene of Heidi dancing that comes with it as a default project. In fact the one decent animation he did share was in fact made by him in Carrara so I think he is just winding us up out of boredom.

wendyvainity posted at 4:02PM Sun, 15 July 2018 - #4333154

a man of straw throwing stones, I never saw a render of M4 walking and chewing gum by him in any software, just a premade iClone scene of Heidi dancing that comes with it as a default project. In fact the one decent animation he did share was in fact made by him in Carrara so I think he is just winding us up out of boredom.

Such a sour grape.

when you tried this in Carrara, can only help you if you provide screenshots. what were your settings in the reflection channels in Carrara? Which modifiers did you choose for the objects? What settings did you use in Carrara? Did you use toon override for each object? Did you then reset the toon settings back to zero to get realistic objects even though the toon render would then exclude certain things like hair (and maybe reflection)? Tell us which Carrara settings you have tried. Carrara screenshots, Carrara screenshots, Carrara screenshots.

For fun and just to be different I did the opposite.. no postwork straight out Carrara render

@ Wonga:

This is a very noble attempt Wonga, and you came very close. But the challenge clearly states that it must be a 'Vampire Effect'. Everything must reflect in the mirror, except the vampire, like the 2:35 of this clip See Link.

I've seen two different artists post the "vampire effect" at that other forum site, using Carrara. One did a still image, the other did an animation.

@ diomede:

I looked at the 3 entries in the 'other' forum. I would have preferred that the entries were made here though.

Your render does not reflect the environment, so maybe not all the mirror surface is reflective. Besides the camera angle with the mirror is too steep, so maybe it's a camera trick. I should have added that the lens must be perpendicular to the mirror plane to not more than maybe plus or minus 10 degrees.

In the other 2 renders the camera angle with the mirror is also too steep, so we don't know, although the entire surface of the mirror seems to be reflective.

Using a shader technique for a vampire effect might work for an object with simple geometry and simple shader, like a cube with a single color, but for a model like V4 wearing an evening gown the solution would be very hard to use, so it is not a general purpose solution.

I repeat the links I mentioned above for reference: The Lost Boys and the 2:35 of The Fearless Vampire Killers.

where is yours in your superior software, I don't care about postworked Holywood movies

Wrong. For mine, there is a color in the scene background channel and caustics, sky, etc are on. Can’t speak for Silena.

So far, you have merely asserted that YOU don’t know how to do it. You have given no evidence that you have even tried in Carrara. If your subsequent responses do not demonstrate that you are a current Carrara user genuinely trying to render an image or an animation with this effect, I will put you on ignore.

BTW - love Shade for what it does. Look forward to discussing it on the Shade forum.

I can actually do it easily the way Holywood does

in Carrara

with my phone camera

whatever

video/render/film two identical scenes one with people one without and composite them

@ diomede:

I don't think it can be done easily in Carrara in a scene with complex characters and outfits, so I won't even try. I actually wanted to submit this as a feature request several years ago, but I didn't. I think a plugin would be the cleanest solution to achieve this effect.

I want to see your solution with the camera from several angles, inside a room with furniture, to prove that it works in every situation.

render the scene with the complex characters and outfits and a shadowcatcher surface on the mirror with an alpha channel

render it again without the complex characters and a reflective surface on the mirror

layer the first render over the second in a video compositor like Hitfilm, Sony Vegas whatever, like the pros do

if you film it with your iPhone on a tripod by your dressing table mirror dancing in the nuddie you do the same thing placing a blue surface over the mirror for the first shot and using chroma keying

its good enough for Weta, Lucas films, Disney etc

Dr. Bernie. You don't think so you won't try? Why? Because you are not a current Carrara user You are just WASTING MY TIME time with false assertions. Before, you said that Carrara could not have two simultaneous animations. It turn out Carrara can have 100s of simultaneous NLA clips. Then, you say Carrara can't do the vampire effect. When you are shown two different examples, one animated and one still, you change it to you don't THINK it can be done EASILY from some specific camera angle.

I want to see you try it AT ALL. Instead, all I have been getting is more of my time wasted. Wasting my time is rude. Wasting my time is obnoxious.

I am putting you on ignore.

@ wendyvainity:

It must be done in one render, no compositing, no photoshopping, no postwork allowed. Otherwise it would just be 'Mission Difficult', not 'Mission Impossible', See Link.

dr_bernie posted at 3:55AM Sun, 12 August 2018 - #4334563

@ wendyvainity:

It must be done in one render, no compositing, no photoshopping, no postwork allowed. Otherwise it would just be 'Mission Difficult', not 'Mission Impossible', See Link.

why?????

if professional movie producers don't do it that way why???

because you can???

I have not seen you do it

the links you posted did not do it that way

I am missing your point totally

unless you are being a troll???

Diomede you are a wise man

am putting this troll on ignore too

Sniff!

After all your mostly ineffective attempts at creating a vampire effect in Carrara by tweaking the alpha channel, or putting a hole in front the camera, or all kinds of contorted solutions that simply won't scale to a complex scene with numerous characters, here is Shade3D's solution. It's simple, all you have to do is to disable the reflection attribute for those shaders that you don't want to reflect.

A Vampire Effect should be a built-in feature in every 3D app. Here in the US, all local TV stations run vampire movies on Saturday nights, so it's not an unusual thing.

If your Carrara 'Pro' can't do it, then take it back and rewrite it.

Notice - Dr. Bernie is not a current Carrara user and spreads false information.

He says Carrara cannot animate a figure walking and chewing gum at the same time. Turns out a figure in Carrara can have hundreds of separate NLA clips applied simultaneously. A figure could walk, chew gum, blink, scratch head, morph to different shapes, etc, etc, etc. all at the same time. Dr. Bernie either did not know what he was talking about, or was just intentionally spreading misinformation to waste our time.

Ditto for the topic of this thread. Dr. Bernie said Carrara could no do it. Two people did it. Did Dr. Bernie ask how it was done so he could do it in Carrara? No, because he is not a Carrara user and not really interested. He simply assumed how it was done (in my case a wrong assumption) and changed the standard so it was not something "easily done."

This is his record. It is not my opinion. It is not an attack on him as a person (probably a wonderful person). But on this forum, he is just spreading misinformation about a program he no longer uses and wasting people's time. If you are a Carrara user, best to put him on ignore if you don't want to see false information and have your time wasted.

What a rogue, uncalled-for, hostile comment. A true disgrace.

I would like to observe that you only had 2 entries in your gallery in the last 5 years, both of them of very average artistic value, if at all. No captivating lighting, no interesting narrative. Nothing that would entitle you to act as a 'counsel' to people who visit this forum.

BTW, my 'vampire' effect above was rendered on a network of 4 computers with a total of 44 threads of execution, and 240 GB of RAM, in 9 minutes and 19 seconds. This proves that Shade3D, unlike Carrara, has a network renderer that actually works. It also proves that with a total of 500 threads of execution in a render farm with an average of 64 GB of RAM per node, an animation like this can be rendered in a reasonable amount of time, with a very high quality, without exorbitant license fees.

Oh, one more thing, Shade's network renderer is licensed for an unlimited number of nodes.

This is his record. It is not my opinion. It is not an attack on him as a person (probably a wonderful person). But on this forum, he is just spreading misinformation about a program he no longer uses and wasting people's time. If you are a Carrara user, best to put him on ignore if you don't want to see false information and have your time wasted.

diomede posted at 3:50AM Tue, 14 August 2018 - #4334637

This is his record. It is not my opinion. It is not an attack on him as a person (probably a wonderful person). But on this forum, he is just spreading misinformation about a program he no longer uses and wasting people's time. If you are a Carrara user, best to put him on ignore if you don't want to see false information and have your time wasted.

A big pile of rubbish by an 'artist' with only 2 gallery entries in 5 years.

It is true in three ways and false in one. True

1. I posted Dr. Bernie's record on simultaneous NLA tracks and reflection. I posted nothing about his personality, the quality of his artwork, or his professionalism. I have called him two names - "Dr. Bernie" and "probably a wonderful person."
2. His misinformation on those two topics wasted a lot of my time.
3. I have posted many more screenshots of Carrara's UI as part of explanations or questions, links to tutorials, and similar information than I have finished renders to the Renderosity gallery.

False

1. It is false that those three facts are a pile of rubbish.

If those three facts are problematic, forum participants are free to put me on ignore.

Currently, I am learning a workflow with 3DCoat and Substance Painter. I look forward to discussing them on their respective forums. I like Blender for what it does. I especially like the Blender for artists add-on. Look forward to discussing it in the Blender community. I like Shade for what it does. Look forward to discussing it on the Shade forum. I like Bryce for what it does. Look forward to discussing it on the Bryce forum. I like Daz Studio for what it does. Look forward to discussing it on the Studio forums. I like Hexagon for what it does. Look forward to discussing it on the Hexagon forums.

OK so Shade3D can do a vampire effect very easily, while Carrara can't. Shade3D 15, Carrara 0.

Next I will explore Lightwave and Cheetah3D for their vampire effect ability.

On the making of the Lost Boys https://youtu.be/BY355jAzjTU

@ diomede:

Who cares what you are currently learning or doing? You are off-topic mister. The topic of this thread is to see if Carrara can do a vampire effect in a complex scene. So far all I have seen were 2 (unacceptable) entries. This is proof that Carrara can't handle vampires. I have submitted my own entry, done with Shade3D with a few mouse clicks, to prove that Shade3D can handle vampires gracefully, in a very complex scene. I could add a dozen more vampires, and Shade3D won't blink.

If you have a solution for the vampire effect in Carrara, a solution that scales to dozens of vampires in a complex surrounding, please post here, otherwise go start your own thread.

Just a few comments/questions:

It looks like. IMHO, your image from Shade is composited. I'm not saying it is, in fact, I am taking you at your word and believe it isn't, but there are some issues with what appear to be inconsistent shadows that make it look like the figure was added to the image. Note the strong shadows on her right leg, and the shadow of her left hand are fairly strong, but I don't see any similar shadows on the floor. My guess is that this may also be due to very poor lighting, shader settings on the floor, or possibly some odd effects caused by your "vampire effect"???

Can you pose your DAZ3d figures in shade, or are they static object imports? If importing/posing is possible, can you import Genesis figures and retain all of the morphs/JCM's, and have seamless use of clothing/etc. so that the figures are as functional in Shade3D as in DS and Carrara? If not, then I think for the most part it would be a downgrade compared to Carrara for me (or most other content users). I've never needed the Vampire effect, so not a big deal here (though it sounds as if it can be done in Carrara anyway), and Carrara render nodes have always functioned flawlessly for me, so also not a big issue (sometimes I need to manually set up ports or do some other network management, but not a big deal for me, since I've done similar things for about 30 years - you have noted in another thread that you have great computer skills, so I would think that using Carrara's render nodes would be equally easy for you).

I hesitate to mention this, as I don't like to say anything negative about someone's art. But to be honest, the lighting and shaders in the image you posted above are less than inspiring. Yes. I have seen some amazing renders done with Shade3D, but if this is the either the "out of the box" image quality, or even an image with modestly tweaked shaders and lighting, I think I will pass on Shade3D. I get much better results with DAZ Studio "out of the box", and why change to Shade3D as a replacement for Carrara when I would have to redo all of the shaders anyway?? Not trying to slam your work here, as this may be what you are wanting, and that's fine, but it's not my style (and before you start flaming my "art", like you did Diomede's work, I know I'm not an artist, I just try to do the best I can to get images I like, and even though we may have different styles, from your image it looks like it would require just as much work as Carrara to get my "style").

Finally, I must be looking in the wrong places. It seems that the most recent version of Shade3D, Shade3D 18, is not available in English. I could find Shade3D 16 for sale in English, and a post on their website that said Shade3D 17 would not have an English version. So does that mean there is no English version available for the last two versions (17&18)? If so, it's definitely not something I would even begin to consider as a Carrara replacement, since I don't speak/read Japanese.

I see 3 layers on this compositing: 1- the main room 2-the character with the frame (bad use of the eraser) 3-the image in the mirror (bad angle)

• different lights and shadows for 1 & 2

@ DustRider:

Well, what can I tell you. If you want Shade to act like Carrara in every respect, then don't use it, because it's not for you.

@ DUDU.car: Keep fantasizing. No amount of convincing will get it through your head that my vampire effect was done in Shade with only a few mouse clicks. So then download Shade Professional and try it for yourself. End of the story afaiac.

I am really enjoying all the posts on the Shade forum.
https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?forum_id=12458

The vampire effect in Carrara has been successfully done in Carrara and posted at that other site. One is an animation and the other is a still. This proves that Dr. Bernie is just wasting everyone's time with misinformation.

BTW, I really like Shade for what it does. Did I mention that I also like all the active threads in the Shade forum? Both threads. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?forum_id=12458

So, today, I decided that I am gong to include a mirror with vampire effect scene in my current project. Now don't get me wrong, I don't only use Carrara. I also use 3DCoat and Substance Painter for this particular project. But in this case, I am rendering in Carrara. See my post at that other Carrara forum. Did some research on the making of Lost Boys. Some interesting tips. Of course, the director didn't use Shade so maybe the Lost Boys sucks. But hmmm, the Lost Boys was one of our references in this post. I'm sorry, is doing it like Lost Boys (compositing in a film editor) a good thing or a bad thing? I mean, on the one hand, it was referred to in the first post. On the other hand, the producers didn't film the scene using the same or simlar technique (even if different software). Doesn't matter, my approach in Carrara is not the same as The Lost Boys directr, either. I am just going to render the Carrara animation because I want to finish and don't have time yet to learn animation compositing software - yet. Hopefully I will for the next project.

Oh well, I won't worry about it. I will just use Carrara to render the vampire effect for my scene because it is quick and easy and fits the rest of the project very well. I'm not good at compositing yet, especially animations, so I'm glad I will be able to get my effect in Carrara without compositing. BTW, in addition to Substance Painter and 3DCoat, I may also use Daz Studio or Poser as a plugin for some of the rigging. Or maybe just keep the Carrara rig. Not sure. I really like being able to integrate other programs with Carrara so easily. One of Carrara's biggest strengths.

I won't bother y'all with the finished project because I know my lighting will not be as dramatic as some others, and my composition won't be as interesting. But I may post some screenshots of my Carrara workflow because this is the Carrara forum. If I use Shade, I will make sure to cross post here and in the Shade forum.

dr_bernie said: "Well, what can I tell you. If you want Shade to act like Carrara in every respect, then don't use it, because it's not for you".

Sorry to take this thread a little more off topic here. But I do have a couple of questions regarding the workflow to create your image, and I'd like a little more clarification to questions asked.

How did you get the assets into your example scene. I'm guessing that they are all either Poser or DS content, or are they Shade3D native items (the figure really looks like V4, and the architecture looks very familiar). Are you able to load these directly from your content library, did you load them into Carrara, DS, or Poser, pose them there and then export them (what format) and import into Shade3D, or did you use Poser Fusion for hosting/importing the scene in Shade3D?

Did you do any adjustments to the materials and/or shaders, or are they exactly as imported?

Did you add/adjust the lighting, or is it exactly as imported (and what was the source)?

I really don't expect to another software to act like Carrara in every respect, or actually in any respect (DS is much different than Carrara, but I enjoy using it). However, being able to leverage my investment in content in a rather simple and integrated way is important if I'm going to pay for alternate software (I have Maya, so if I wanted to go that way I could get the DS to Maya plugin, or I could use Blender for free too, but those do require a lot more work on the user side of things). I also don't really want to go down the Poser Fusion road because IMHO scene hosting is just a marginal step above export/import. However, it would be nice to know how you got your DAZ/Poser assets into Shade3D, as even if you are importing them or using Poser Fusion, others reading the thread might be interested and find whatever process you used isn't a problem. Also, what steps are required to get Genesis figures into Shade3D, especially Genesis 3 & 8. Oh, I almost forgot to ask, if the figures are imported (V4, Genesis, etc.) do they retain the rigging, and are pose-able in Shade3D?

One last question, as you didn't respond before. Is there an English version of Shade 18 available?? Or are people who don't speak Japanese stuck on the two+ year old version 16.

Sorry for all the questions, but they really are important for anyone looking for an alternative or companion software for Carrara. Thanks in advance for your help.

@ DustRider:

In case you didn't notice, I have answered some of your questions in This Thread.

DustRider, if you want the answer, go with your horse in a large canyon and just yell very loudly your question, and the echoes will answer "Carrara... Carrara...rara...rara.....!

DUDU.car posted at 5:08PM Tue, 21 August 2018 - #4335008

DustRider, if you want the answer, go with your horse in a large canyon and just yell very loudly your question, and the echoes will answer "Carrara... Carrara...rara...rara.....!

lol :)