Renderosity Forums / Poser - OFFICIAL
Welcome to the Poser - OFFICIAL Forum
Forum Coordinators: RedPhantom
Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Dec 04 4:13 pm)
Subject: Renderosity Acquires Poser Software
LaurieA posted at 9:50AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354120
Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:45AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354118
LaurieA posted at 9:41AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354115
Rendo can't afford to make the same mistake that SM made and that is Content Is King. So unless they're willing to hire content makers that are every bit as capable as the Daz figure creators seem to be then they better come up with another solution. A large part of the reason Poser was doing so poorly is because the content for it was terrible. I'm not one that really likes plugins myself, but Daz figure compatibility in a plugin would be ok with me IF it's not the horrible thing that is DSON for Poser (which was always slow and buggy when I had it installed in Poser). Why not make a great plugin that allows Daz content and then people can choose to get it if that's what they want? I don't think anyone is asking for Poser to be DS 2.0. I think people are asking for the ability to use Daz figures in their program of choice - Poser. I don't see the problem. I think Poser would benefit having other things too - exporters to Unreal, Unity, other render engines. It has the potential to be really great in the right hands. Why not allow it to be all that it can be?
Maybe, instead of listening to people that are ok with Poser's status quo, they should be asking FORMER Poser users why they switched to DS? ;)
Laurie
The thing is, the way a lot of people here are speaking, they're talking as if the priority of Poser should be get it compatible with Genesis specifically. Which would make Poser development a slave to Daz3d, AND make it no point in paying the price for Poser when a person could just get DS for free doing the same things.
Enabling Poser to have addons so that someone could come up with a Genesis loader - sure, that would be cool. But the people working on Poser should be focused on making Poser better, independently of what Daz3d is doing.
Only because that has been the most-asked-for-thing by Poser users...and for years. It's going to come up, so at some point it's going to need to be addressed. I don't think anyone wants to be negative about it (I'm certainly not), and I'll probably continue to use DS for Daz figures to be completely frank, but there are people who really want to use those figures but don't want to use DS. They can use them in CC, why not Poser? It's not a horrible request. LOL
Laurie
No, it's not the most asked for thing by Poser users. Good figures, competently rigged are the most requested items.
Only SOME Poser users wish to see Genesis in Poser and almost to a person they're all DAZ vendors. What a coincidence!
Well, I'm not a Daz vendor and all I've done so far is suggest things. I haven't demanded anything and I'm especially NOT going to get into it with you Traci. So, make sure Poser stays where it's at - at the bottom - and I'm sure you'll be happy forever. I know it's impossible to make everyone happy, but wow...
Just remember that now Poser not only has to compete with DS, but also with Character Creator. The two are not the only game in town anymore....
Laurie
It's not tailgating one of them that's gonna make the other better.
There's a thing in market that's called a "differential". What would make a buyer choose a product over the other?
Why would a buyer pay for Poser if it's only copying another program that's free?
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:25AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354132
It's not tailgating one of them that's gonna make the other better.
There's a thing in market that's called a "differential". What would make a buyer choose a product over the other?
Why would a buyer pay for Poser if it's only copying another program that's free?
I've already said it. Have what the other doesn't. Do it better. It can use the same figures and yet still be superior software. In some ways it is superior already...they just need to fix what's broken. We have Blender, and it's free and it can make 3D models, edit video, do particle system like cloth and hair, and yet people still pay for software that does all those things. People will go where they're most comfortable, even if they have to pay for it.
Laurie
Hold on to your hats for a second before starting the next Poser / DS race.
This take over is going to take time, lots of time, and repair work, lots and lots of repair work.
Some time ago, SM fired the complete Poser team. We all know that.
The Poser development moved to a team in Portugal. We all know that.
Then Poser was recovered from Portugal.
And now Poser is sold to this house.
We have no clue what all different developers, teams and coders and managers did.
All I know is that up to and including today, 3 completely different teams pulled all their hairs and chewed all their nails to try to get a fix for the Masterbug.
Let's calmly state that a "next" version, or a next Poser/DS policy is probably the least of their worries.
What worries us even harder is all the licencing that has to come over. Some you all know about, some you guys don't know about.
The hair room, the cloth room, the face room are the "knowns" . So let's keep it at that.
For the future? As I stated some posts ago, it all depends if Bondware wants a FAST or long term return on their investment.
PS; For those that don't know ; the public part of the Masterbug is in my Video 4 on my YouTube channel. Very brief : Poser splitting rigged obj files internally and adding double vertex at all welds. All the rest is history.
The impact of this is so deep and touches each and every function in Poser. From group editor through hair room, vertically and horizontally, passing through the setup and fitting room. Each function is affected and the fix requires a TON of internal knowledge.
ROFL, Character Creator isn't a competitor with DAZ or Poser. First, the investment is ~$1,000.00 to do anything close to what Poser and DS do, way above the price break for this customer set. Then, you can only market creations AT Reallusion or use them in your own created games. Not even close to competition - a separate market.
As far as suggesting things, telling the new owners of the software, with a content store, that Poser content sucks is a bit more than a suggestion. ROFL.
Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:31AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354132
It's not tailgating one of them that's gonna make the other better.
There's a thing in market that's called a "differential". What would make a buyer choose a product over the other?
Why would a buyer pay for Poser if it's only copying another program that's free?
Granted. It would be much better for Poser if it were being innovative than copying what's already there.
LaurieA posted at 10:28AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354133
Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:25AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354132
It's not tailgating one of them that's gonna make the other better.
There's a thing in market that's called a "differential". What would make a buyer choose a product over the other?
Why would a buyer pay for Poser if it's only copying another program that's free?
I've already said it. Have what the other doesn't. Do it better. It can use the same figures and yet still be superior software. In some ways it is superior already...they just need to fix what's broken.
Laurie
Can't have one with the other. Just consider:
What is Poser's focus? Making a program with sturdy options for character creation and render, perhaps animation.
What is DS's focus? Making Genesis work. The entire build of DS is allowing the next functionality of Genesis to work. Every time there's a new Genesis, there's a new bit of tech underlying to make it work, in DS.
If Poser were to follow that, it would have to dedicate developers just to keep the new versions of Genesis working.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Glitterati3D posted at 10:32AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354135
ROFL, Character Creator isn't a competitor with DAZ or Poser. First, the investment is ~$1,000.00 to do anything close to what Poser and DS do, way above the price break for this customer set. Then, you can only market creations AT Reallusion or use them in your own created games. Not even close to competition - a separate market.
As far as suggesting things, telling the new owners of the software, with a content store, that Poser content sucks is a bit more than a suggestion. ROFL.
I WAS a customer. And for as long as you were. And the content _ is_ bad. I'm not afraid to say it. I still bought the software cause I liked it. I just got tired of trying to shoehorn what I wanted to use into it. That and SM pretty much ignored every glaring issue Poser had. I'm not married to software...I will go where I feel like I'm getting what I want out of it. If it's DS, fine. If it's Poser, fine. I liked Poser. I still like Poser. There's just not much I can do with it anymore. That's the ONLY reason I'm not still using it, but have been keeping tabs on its progress.
I realize I'm preaching to the choir with the two of you, so I'll stop now because I might have already ruined the thread for everyone else. Just remember that not everyone feels like you guys do. Some will yeah, but not everyone. Maybe not even the majority.
Laurie
LaurieA posted at 10:41AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354139
Glitterati3D posted at 10:32AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354135
ROFL, Character Creator isn't a competitor with DAZ or Poser. First, the investment is ~$1,000.00 to do anything close to what Poser and DS do, way above the price break for this customer set. Then, you can only market creations AT Reallusion or use them in your own created games. Not even close to competition - a separate market.
As far as suggesting things, telling the new owners of the software, with a content store, that Poser content sucks is a bit more than a suggestion. ROFL.
I WAS a customer. And for as long as you were. And the content _ is_ bad. I'm not afraid to say it. I still bought the software cause I liked it. I just got tired of trying to shoehorn what I wanted to use into it. That and SM pretty much ignored every glaring issue Poser had. I'm not married to software...I will go where I feel like I'm getting what I want out of it. If it's DS, fine. If it's Poser, fine. I liked Poser. I still like Poser. There's just not much I can do with it anymore. That's the ONLY reason I'm not still using it, but have been keeping tabs on its progress.
I realize I'm preaching to the choir with the two of you, so I'll stop now because I might have already ruined the thread for everyone else. Just remember that not everyone feels like you guys do. Some will yeah, but not everyone. Maybe not even the majority.
Laurie
Everybody keeps saying they left Poser, but they prefer the interface. Why not get DS to make some interface changes so you would feel more at home? Wouldn't that be easier than getting Poser to chuck away years of the way they do things?
EClark1894 posted at 10:46AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354141
LaurieA posted at 10:41AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354139
Glitterati3D posted at 10:32AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354135
ROFL, Character Creator isn't a competitor with DAZ or Poser. First, the investment is ~$1,000.00 to do anything close to what Poser and DS do, way above the price break for this customer set. Then, you can only market creations AT Reallusion or use them in your own created games. Not even close to competition - a separate market.
As far as suggesting things, telling the new owners of the software, with a content store, that Poser content sucks is a bit more than a suggestion. ROFL.
I WAS a customer. And for as long as you were. And the content _ is_ bad. I'm not afraid to say it. I still bought the software cause I liked it. I just got tired of trying to shoehorn what I wanted to use into it. That and SM pretty much ignored every glaring issue Poser had. I'm not married to software...I will go where I feel like I'm getting what I want out of it. If it's DS, fine. If it's Poser, fine. I liked Poser. I still like Poser. There's just not much I can do with it anymore. That's the ONLY reason I'm not still using it, but have been keeping tabs on its progress.
I realize I'm preaching to the choir with the two of you, so I'll stop now because I might have already ruined the thread for everyone else. Just remember that not everyone feels like you guys do. Some will yeah, but not everyone. Maybe not even the majority.
Laurie
Everybody keeps saying they left Poser, but they prefer the interface. Why not get DS to make some interface changes so you would feel more at home? Wouldn't that be easier than getting Poser to chuck away years of the way they do things?
Because the interface isn't why I switched ;). It was the content (or lack thereof). I don't beat myself up over it. I can't beat anyone else up over it. They need to go with what's best for them. I don't hate Poser and I certainly don't hate Poser users. I hate what's been done to Poser tho. And to the community. I'd like to see everyone get what they want. It would be nice for a change.
Laurie
Are we getting into >>personal< preferences, Laurie? That's you, and that's respectable - I'm on the opposite. I respect Genesis but I hate it with a passion. I hate the idea of getting the same mesh and twisting it into grown man, grown woman, baby, monster. I'd hate to do kink content for Genesis adult and think of the ease with which someone could fit it into a child character. I hate thinking of a clothing piece and wondering if a customer would come try to demand it should work for another Genesis thing that has a completely different shape in which my clothing would look awful and would be extra hard for me to make.
Most of all, I'm really tired of being here since DS was first made, COPYING Poser, and now people expect Poser to stall its development to copy DS.
DS was (from what I could see, admittedly I was never in the backstage of things knowing what was actually done) born copying Poser tech, but as it was free and much more limited, the then-owners of Poser allowed it. Now it - thankfully - moved into its own thing, developed its own tech and is florishing on its own.
Poser should do the same. Poser owes nothing to DS - even though it might owe its fame on the success of V4. Poser doesn't have to bend itself for Daz things to work with it. La Femme is PROOF that Poser-only can make quality things, and the only thing that's needed is for vendors to pick her up and make more stuff for her.
Wanting Poser to make itself ready for Genesis is simply reinventing the wheel. It would dedicate all developers in that effort, and then DS would be already churning out the next Genesis, and then Poser would have to dedicate to making THAT work, and then -- wait, when would Poser be developing its own things?
Nope. Please. Next.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Laurie - it's ok, really, you can use both :) seriously, that's awesome. Personally I don't like DS, but if you like DS and Genesis, and you like Poser, you can only win by using both.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:56AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354143
Are we getting into >>personal< preferences, Laurie? That's you, and that's respectable - I'm on the opposite. I respect Genesis but I hate it with a passion. I hate the idea of getting the same mesh and twisting it into grown man, grown woman, baby, monster. I'd hate to do kink content for Genesis adult and think of the ease with which someone could fit it into a child character. I hate thinking of a clothing piece and wondering if a customer would come try to demand it should work for another Genesis thing that has a completely different shape in which my clothing would look awful and would be extra hard for me to make.
Most of all, I'm really tired of being here since DS was first made, COPYING Poser, and now people expect Poser to stall its development to copy DS.
DS was (from what I could see, admittedly I was never in the backstage of things knowing what was actually done) born copying Poser tech, but as it was free and much more limited, the then-owners of Poser allowed it. Now it - thankfully - moved into its own thing, developed its own tech and is florishing on its own.
Poser should do the same. Poser owes nothing to DS - even though it might owe its fame on the success of V4. Poser doesn't have to bend itself for Daz things to work with it. La Femme is PROOF that Poser-only can make quality things, and the only thing that's needed is for vendors to pick her up and make more stuff for her.
Wanting Poser to make itself ready for Genesis is simply reinventing the wheel. It would dedicate all developers in that effort, and then DS would be already churning out the next Genesis, and then Poser would have to dedicate to making THAT work, and then -- wait, when would Poser be developing its own things?
Nope. Please. Next.
Everything gets abused, even good things. Can't blame the creator for what consumers do with their product. If figures as good as Daz figures can be incorporated into Poser, I'm all for it. But the Genesis figures, for as much as you might not want to like it, ARE nice. And there's benefits to it being one mesh...maybe more than there are for it being separate ones. Having said that, if Rendo can come up with figures just as nice, I'm on board. I can use both. I'm flexible ;).
Laurie
LaurieA posted at 11:00AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354146
Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:56AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354143
Are we getting into >>personal< preferences, Laurie? That's you, and that's respectable - I'm on the opposite. I respect Genesis but I hate it with a passion. I hate the idea of getting the same mesh and twisting it into grown man, grown woman, baby, monster. I'd hate to do kink content for Genesis adult and think of the ease with which someone could fit it into a child character. I hate thinking of a clothing piece and wondering if a customer would come try to demand it should work for another Genesis thing that has a completely different shape in which my clothing would look awful and would be extra hard for me to make.
Most of all, I'm really tired of being here since DS was first made, COPYING Poser, and now people expect Poser to stall its development to copy DS.
DS was (from what I could see, admittedly I was never in the backstage of things knowing what was actually done) born copying Poser tech, but as it was free and much more limited, the then-owners of Poser allowed it. Now it - thankfully - moved into its own thing, developed its own tech and is florishing on its own.
Poser should do the same. Poser owes nothing to DS - even though it might owe its fame on the success of V4. Poser doesn't have to bend itself for Daz things to work with it. La Femme is PROOF that Poser-only can make quality things, and the only thing that's needed is for vendors to pick her up and make more stuff for her.
Wanting Poser to make itself ready for Genesis is simply reinventing the wheel. It would dedicate all developers in that effort, and then DS would be already churning out the next Genesis, and then Poser would have to dedicate to making THAT work, and then -- wait, when would Poser be developing its own things?
Nope. Please. Next.
Everything gets abused, even good things. Can't blame the creator for what consumers do with their product. If figures as good as Daz figures can be incorporated into Poser, I'm all for it. But the Genesis figures, for as much as you might not want to like it, ARE nice. And there's benefits to it being one mesh...maybe more than there are for it being separate ones. Having said that, if Rendo can come up with figures just as nice, I'm on board. I can use both. I'm flexible ;).
I guess I should mention that so far I haven't seen any content that makes me want to come back to Poser yet, and before you jump all over me, I have the greatest respect for a lot of the content creators that have been working overtime on Poser's current lineup of figures. They just aren't what I'm looking for :). But Gabe and Dee know I love em :P
Laurie
LaurieA posted at 11:02AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354149
LaurieA posted at 11:00AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354146
Everything gets abused, even good things. Can't blame the creator for what consumers do with their product. If figures as good as Daz figures can be incorporated into Poser, I'm all for it. But the Genesis figures, for as much as you might not want to like it, ARE nice. And there's benefits to it being one mesh...maybe more than there are for it being separate ones. Having said that, if Rendo can come up with figures just as nice, I'm on board. I can use both. I'm flexible ;).
I said I respect them - because I know they're nice :) they're not for me, and I don't want anyone to make them be fore me, I hope it'll strive and continue to do well, I really do, I hope its users have a lot of fun with it.
I'm not knocking on DS's door asking them to change it into something I like.
I guess I should mention that so far I haven't seen any content that makes me want to come back to Poser yet, and before you jump all over me, I have the greatest respect for a lot of the content creators that have been working overtime on Poser's current lineup of figures. They just aren't what I'm looking for :). But Gabe and Dee know I love em :P
And that's perfectly fine that it doesn't make you come back to Poser! You can stay in DS for Genesis, that's perfectly good, have lots of fun with it (and I'm being sincere, not ironic! Having options is GOOD)
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
LaurieA posted at 11:11AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354153
Well, I'd like to come back to Poser...isn't that ok too? LOL Why does it have to be one or the other?
Laurie
The thing is, your requirement for coming back to Poser is that Poser changes its entire thing to make it work like another thing. That's not very reasonable.
My guess is that you don't quite understand the amount of specific programming required to make Genesis work - just keep in mind that, at the very least, the very weight mapping of Genesis is entirely different to the weight mapping Poser has. You'd either have a mess of a program that has two weight mapping formats (and that would open itself to a huge amount of bugs, performance problems, and users being frustrated with things not working for one thing when they work for another), or would require Poser to drop its weight map entirely and switch it for DS's, breaking every weight-mapped content ever made for Poser until now.
And that's not even mentioning possible problems (and costs) with licensing of Daz's tech.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
It would appear that there are different schools of thought for the future, I for one agree with Laurie, content IS KING . Her SUGGESTIONS. and, that is all they are;; suggestions are as valid as anyone else's. Since poser is not hers to command, nor, does it belong to any of those people arguing with her. Poser's owners will decide which direction poser goes in, and that, is out of everyone else's control. Frankly, just because you do not like an idea, does not make it any less viable than your own ideas. I am sure that renderosity, being open-minded, and wanting poser to succeed are open to any and ALL suggestions, whether they fit with their current philosophy or not. So instead of arguing the validity ( or viability ) of an idea, why not let's embrace them all and work out ways that those ideas COULD improve poser. Let's be POSITIVE . After all - we poser users need it to work, and fighting about things that have been suggested is just too negative a start --- IMHO.
Locked Out
huh. i didn't get the impression that Laurie necessarily wants any version of Genesis to work in Poser in order to come back, or truth told, to START using Poser again... i just hear her saying that, currently, the things she's looking for in a program she finds in using DS. and if Poser could innovate and give her something that DS can't, she'd pick up Poser again when wanting to use THOSE things. doesn't sound like she's beholdened to any specific program outside of using the tool needed at the time... [shrug]
i just don't get this whole black & white/us vs. them thing between users regarding which proggie they use. it's honestly not clear to me [never has been] why it matters what is used as long as you're able to get the results desired for your own personal needs...
i've only ever used Poser, btw... don't know if i'd ever try DS, either... and i would like to see some innovation for Poser. of course, innovation that's 'right for me', but even if it's not what i might be looking for, that's ok, too... i still have older versions of Poser, if it comes to that, that can get me somewhere...
Structure posted at 11:28AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354157
It would appear that there are different schools of thought for the future, I for one agree with Laurie, content IS KING . Her SUGGESTIONS. and, that is all they are;; suggestions are as valid as anyone else's. Since poser is not hers to command, nor, does it belong to any of those people arguing with her. Poser's owners will decide which direction poser goes in, and that, is out of everyone else's control. Frankly, just because you do not like an idea, does not make it any less viable than your own ideas. I am sure that renderosity, being open-minded, and wanting poser to succeed are open to any and ALL suggestions, whether they fit with their current philosophy or not. So instead of arguing the validity ( or viability ) of an idea, why not let's embrace them all and work out ways that those ideas COULD improve poser. Let's be POSITIVE . After all - we poser users need it to work, and fighting about things that have been suggested is just too negative a start --- IMHO.
Nobody's fighting. We're having a discussion.
So, discussing making Poser DSToo is not a negative according to Earl.
But, discussing why that's not viable IS a negative according to Structure.
OK. Got it.
My guess would be - but it's only that - that releasing La Femme 1.1 would mean that she really might become the new pose flagship, and she would have potential. So I dearly hope she will be supported more (until now, content for her is flowing steadily which is good). Wouldn't the best solution for the poser - genesis problem be to make that dson importer work properly? I've never used it though so cannot say much about it. I really do understand the wish to use genesis in poser (though I myself don't share it) but changing poser so that's possible might really be very complicated. However, I'm really excited about what's the future to bring!
Afrodite-Ohki posted at 12:00PM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354155
LaurieA posted at 11:11AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354153
Well, I'd like to come back to Poser...isn't that ok too? LOL Why does it have to be one or the other?
Laurie
The thing is, your requirement for coming back to Poser is that Poser changes its entire thing to make it work like another thing. That's not very reasonable.
Oh, no, no...I never said that. LOL. I said to be able to use Genesis figures in it. Never said I wanted them to change anything else. Be nice if it was easier to import non-Daz figures into it too. Like I said, a plugin, done right would work just as well. That way ppl could pick and choose. Not ideal, but probably the best solution. Other than that, there are things Poser has that I like better than DS like the cloth room and morph brush. Even the magnets.
Laurie
Glitterati3D posted at 1:17PM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354161
Structure posted at 11:28AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354157
It would appear that there are different schools of thought for the future, I for one agree with Laurie, content IS KING . Her SUGGESTIONS. and, that is all they are;; suggestions are as valid as anyone else's. Since poser is not hers to command, nor, does it belong to any of those people arguing with her. Poser's owners will decide which direction poser goes in, and that, is out of everyone else's control. Frankly, just because you do not like an idea, does not make it any less viable than your own ideas. I am sure that renderosity, being open-minded, and wanting poser to succeed are open to any and ALL suggestions, whether they fit with their current philosophy or not. So instead of arguing the validity ( or viability ) of an idea, why not let's embrace them all and work out ways that those ideas COULD improve poser. Let's be POSITIVE . After all - we poser users need it to work, and fighting about things that have been suggested is just too negative a start --- IMHO.
Nobody's fighting. We're having a discussion.
So, discussing making Poser DSToo is not a negative according to Earl.
But, discussing why that's not viable IS a negative according to Structure.
OK. Got it.
Well, splitting hairs here, but technically...
Discussing making Poser DStoo is just that...a discussion. Explaining why that's not viable is exactly what it's called... an argument. The problem is, that one side or the other tends to take things too far, and usually gets more than a little personal or take things to extremes. Like the person who thinks that not only should Genesis work in Poser, but the lighting is bad, Poser should be free and we should scrap the Superfly/Cycles renderer for Iray.
I think really the point here is that if Poser is going to be revived it's going to need a line of high quality diverse figures to use. Whether or not they are DAZ's is immaterial. If clothes will morph to match the figures that's a huge plus, nobody likes having to re-buy the same wardrobe each time a new figure comes out. I think the reason people keep saying port Genesis into Poser is because Genesis already has all that.
If Poser is going to be sold rather than be given away it's going to have to provide a reason why it is superior to Daz Studio, and Blender in at least content creation. And it's going to have to up its game in vendor support.
I don't intend to buy the current version of Poser, I made that decision a while back. I will look at the next one carefully when it comes out, no hurry. In the meantime I intend to support Renderosity's efforts by spending in their marketplace and keeping my Prime membership going. Development money has to come from somewhere ;)
LaurieA posted at 1:42PM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354120
Only because that has been the most-asked-for-thing by Poser users...and for years.
I suspect that is not as true as it used to be.
That's what I used to want. You can probably look back in my history here and see me clamoring for Genesis in Poser. (At DAZ, too, but I think their old forum posts are long gone. ;-)
But now? Just not a priority. Back then I was upset Mom and Dad separated and wanted them to get back together, but they've been divorced 14 years now, have new partners and new kids, and to my mind, there's just no going back.
I'd rather see Poser improved in other ways. Like, fix the hair room, please. It really doesn't work much better than it did in Poser 5, which is ridiculous.
The Fitting Room was a nice addition. I do use it (I was an early adopter of Wardrobe Wizard), but it could be improved.
Having the Face Room work with La Femme would be great.
@EClark1894
Dude, I don't care what engine they put in as long as it takes advantage of my system and isn't capped or leaking the way it seems now. I ain't trying to reinvent the wheel, man, just make it more well-rounded.
I'm curious. Have you rendered in DS at all so you can actually understand thru experience what I be talkin' about as far as the comparison of render times and lightin' quality? This ain't no baiting question either just trying to find common ground since it be easier to have a discussion as you say if we have some. Ain't startin' no argument neither, but if this here thread is being read by the new owners of the proggie, I'd like to say my peace - in peace, man. :)
Over n out.
I guess I should get more acquainted with the people here who use Poser eh?
I haven't been on here much or in quite a long time.
I've been involved with Poser beta stuff over the years. Who do I talk to about that stuff now?
_____________________________
My most recent Poser animation:
Previs Dummies 2
This might seem out of place with the past two pages of discussion, but...
@ Afrodite-Ohki :
You make some good points, but I disagree about the expence.
I did not pay close attention to Poser's pricing structure, but when the inclusion of both Size8Software's cloth simulation module, and Singular Inversions' face room module (pre-Poser Pro separation with two-tiered pricing) did not result in an exponential price hike.
And, yes, since the decision to separate Poser into two classes and cater to three main demographics (content users [vendor purchasers/freebies], content creators, and power users/creators) the pricing structure, and usage needs have defined which Poser version one might purchase.
But, never have I witnessed an exponential pricing scheme while adding core functionality that priced anyone out of usage, whether one as a hobbyist, power user, or professional in any aspect (including content vendors).
Marvelous Designer, on the other hand, went from (Poserverse) hobbyists' champion and content creator friend with a two-tiered pricing structure, standard/Pro versions (excluding full on big business commercial Enterprise) to exponential price hiking, just the same as what happened with zBrush (though, in their defence, as many point out - always with free updates/next gen versions).
Poser has always had a pretty regulated pricing scheme where both new purchases and upgrades have been fair pricing for new versions. What I mean by this is, I have never seen them jump exponentially in price just because they included a new core module such as physics, or a new renderer (the norm being a Pro $400 tier program to a now $800 tier program).
I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding usage and inclusion. It should be the same as it has been, a Pro function included in the Pro version.
Those, as you say, who only purchase content to make pretty pictures, and have no desire to create anything can still do so with the standard (cheaper) version. Those of us, who are content creators and power users will purchase the Pro version as we always have to have the tools we need at our disposal. But, I know, as a fellow content creator, I am preaching to the choir with you.
As a two decade long content creator (some of us choose not to be a store vendor and go the way of custom freelancing), I do have a dog in this race. I would love to see the inclusion happen, but I am a realist, and have no delusions -- only wants and wishes...
I am not sure when you jumped on board with MD, but I don't remember you from the initial beta testing days (2010), but we are in a giant sea of thousands of participants, so it is easy to miss people in conversations and passing.
I noted you have been here as long as I (my third incarnation), and assume you have been using Poser just as long as well.
I don't know how long you have been a content creator, or a vendor, but you have a lovely store with some nice products.
@ Glitteratti3D :
Not being accusatory -- just curious...
Does "Now, once again, FACTS tend to get jumbled and misinterpreted and what I "know" about the cloth room could be made up fantasy, too." refer to my post regarding facts with Poser's cloth module?
Not saying you were implying mine, but it just seems how it read from the rest of the thread.
If so, I can assure you I am not going off of hearsay, or forum talk, but off of cite-able archived source material.
aRtBee documented one half of the equation, and I was working on documenting the other half.
If anyone has any questions, please ask, and I will not only cite source material, but present it as well.
- If you were not referring to me at all, then, please, disregard. But, if you have any questions regarding confusion on facts for the cloth room, I would be happy to help.
I'm gonna reply to @DaremoK3 bit by bit because that was such an interesting reply xD
DaremoK3 posted at 5:51PM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354209
This might seem out of place with the past two pages of discussion, but...
@ Afrodite-Ohki :
You make some good points, but I disagree about the expence.
I did not pay close attention to Poser's pricing structure, but when the inclusion of both Size8Software's cloth simulation module, and Singular Inversions' face room module (pre-Poser Pro separation with two-tiered pricing) did not result in an exponential price hike.
The thing is - Size8Software's cloth simulation was much simpler than what MD does - I don't know about the creation module as I've never seen it, but if we're comparing to MD... the ONLY thing MD does is simulate+create (complex, super amazing) clothing, and by now a lifetime license is US$490 (and, if you're a company, a whooping US$6k per user, and Poser doesn't even have a company-specific license, which I'm thankful for). I'm just basing on the vague idea of how expensive it would be to make a competitor for MD and put it in a program that doesn't focus on content creation, but on content composition+rendering+animation.
And, yes, since the decision to separate Poser into two classes and cater to three main demographics (content users [vendor purchasers/freebies], content creators, and power users/creators) the pricing structure, and usage needs have defined which Poser version one might purchase.
But, never have I witnessed an exponential pricing scheme while adding core functionality that priced anyone out of usage, whether one as a hobbyist, power user, or professional in any aspect (including content vendors).
I meant that I fear that the Poser Pro specifically would hike in price if they added the functionality of external creation programs into Poser :)
As a two decade long content creator (some of us choose not to be a store vendor and go the way of custom freelancing), I do have a dog in this race. I would love to see the inclusion happen, but I am a realist, and have no delusions -- only wants and wishes...
I think I'm little less than those two decades? I remember playing with Poser when I was a teen, and starting venturing into selling some years after that. Pretty sure it was on Poser 6 when I started making content. But alas - my memory is lousy LMAO (and that's when I'm 33 - imagine when I'm older)
I am not sure when you jumped on board with MD, but I don't remember you from the initial beta testing days (2010), but we are in a giant sea of thousands of participants, so it is easy to miss people in conversations and passing.
I didn't - I've tried my hand on MD a few times with demos and such, but mostly I've been watching videos and drooling all over the thing, and seeing as I still dream of working in game companies I see it used a lot in AAA stuff.
I noted you have been here as long as I (my third incarnation), and assume you have been using Poser just as long as well.
Started in Poser 3, which came for free in those computer magazines that came with a CD with software 
it was a complete accident too, I got it just to use it as pose reference for drawing, but then I enjoyed playing with it too much and you know how it goes after that. (I'll just mention I was one of only two crazy people in my graphics design college class who didn't dread our 3ds Max classes)
I don't know how long you have been a content creator, or a vendor, but you have a lovely store with some nice products.
Why thank you so very much!
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
@ Afrodite-Ohki :
You are welcome.
I see your point with not wanting Poser Pro to go any higher in price -- I do not want this as well.
That sucks that you do not have MD. I thought your clothing products might have been made with it.
Yeah, MD is great to work in for creating clothes, and the simulation is top shelf. I drool over the videos as well, and the latest versions have a much easier creation workflow than my antiquated version, but I get by.
I create my clothing there, but use Poser and DS with VWD as my simulation engine for compositing my scenes for rendering.
Started with Poser 3 myself, but I am envious that you had proper training with Max.
Gotta go get some work done so I can participate in Poker night. Take care...
DaremoK3 posted at 6:47PM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354212
@ Glitteratti3D :
Not being accusatory -- just curious...
Does "Now, once again, FACTS tend to get jumbled and misinterpreted and what I "know" about the cloth room could be made up fantasy, too." refer to my post regarding facts with Poser's cloth module?
Not saying you were implying mine, but it just seems how it read from the rest of the thread.
If so, I can assure you I am not going off of hearsay, or forum talk, but off of cite-able archived source material.
aRtBee documented one half of the equation, and I was working on documenting the other half.
If anyone has any questions, please ask, and I will not only cite source material, but present it as well.
- If you were not referring to me at all, then, please, disregard. But, if you have any questions regarding confusion on facts for the cloth room, I would be happy to help.
I was referring ONLY to what I was saying. Gossip and innuendo tends to become FACT in Poser world so I never assume I know the FACTS unless I learned them first hand.
Nah, my clothes are good ol' regular sculpting xD the skirt layers in Lolita Dress were a round plane with a hole in it that I simulated in Poser itself for the flow, then back into an old version of Cinema4d to model the rest.
My proper training with Max was basic at best - my college had such an old version, I hated the program, it was so not user-friendly that my teacher couldn't speak english and he'd come ask me what the name of a function might be because the program had no ICONS. Pretty sure it does now, but that kind of price on a program kept me away from it lol
I'm seriously considering learning Blender instead cause I can't update C4d either - but Blender is not very friendly for me either, with all the needing keyboard shortcuts. Again, that lack of memory of mine.
Anyway, have fun at poker!
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Please renderosity, tell us there is a team of software developers assigned with continuing to develop poser, and let us know for certain that we can look forward to poser 12, and that we are welcome to give suggestions and feature requests to someone please. Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
not quite at that stage. I am asking for reassurance that poser will be actively worked on and a place to post things that we are likely to see where the software development team will look. But that request sounds really cool!
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Content Advisory! This message contains profanity, violence
This is a crosshead screwdriver.
This is a slothead screwdriver.
Let the Holy War commence!
My opinion matters more than yours cos I shout louder!
LOUDER!!!!!
Yes ppl. Its that stupid. You are arguing about datasets and tools. Nothing more. Who cares if you use what dataset in what program? Are they holding a knife to your throat? What actually matters is, you use what suits you.
Now, do I have to use Mr Clue by Four to start teaching ppl to respect others?
I'm about ready to come outta retirement and start snarking again.
If you don't like the opinion just remember. Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.
So calm the fuck down.
sloan posted at 1:37AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354006
This probably ain't gonna be a popular suggestion either, but Poser needs a better render engine. Right now poser don't take advantage of me processors as it should.
It'd be cool if Poser adopted IRAY which is a much better engine than Cycles/Superfly. It'd also allow all materials across da two big softwares to be usable in both. Then Posers lighting needs addressed. Then onto some decent base figures. If you can't get great renders and great lighting outta yur software, great figures are relatively worthless since rendering good stuff is massively dependent on those 2 things.
Interesting to see what happens. sloan posted at 1:34AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354196
@EClark1894
Dude, I don't care what engine they put in as long as it takes advantage of my system and isn't capped or leaking the way it seems now. I ain't trying to reinvent the wheel, man, just make it more well-rounded.
I'm curious. Have you rendered in DS at all so you can actually understand thru experience what I be talkin' about as far as the comparison of render times and lightin' quality? This ain't no baiting question either just trying to find common ground since it be easier to have a discussion as you say if we have some. Ain't startin' no argument neither, but if this here thread is being read by the new owners of the proggie, I'd like to say my peace - in peace, man. :)
Over n out.
You say that Poser isn't taking advantage of your CPU but IRAY in DS is... well you're not taking advantage of anything in IRAY either if you're not using CUDA since you said "processors". Though you are right that DS's version of IRAY is faster, that's because it's newer and more optimized for newer hardware and Poser's mishmosh mess of a hybrid Cycles engine is very old and not at all optimized. They need to ditch the hybrid mess and go full on cycles so it supports updates and all the newest features that are in Blender.
Both Cycles and Poser's version of Cycles uses PBR, so light is as physically accurate as IRAY is, maybe you're confusing people's lack of lighting technique with lighting capability? Poser's lighting is definitely more noise prone which makes for longer renders just to get cleaner images but once the noise is out with proper lighting both output very high quality lighting.
And before you ask, yes I use DS. I was on the verge of going completely to DS before PE came out, then I went back to Poser almost full time. I've also done comparison renders of the same scene for products that are for both software suites, I can get almost the same results out of both if I wanted to as far as lighting goes.
who was the angry message aimed at Khai-J-Bach ? I didn't notice any major problems here? Was it something I said? Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Privacy Notice
This site uses cookies to deliver the best experience. Our own cookies make user accounts and other features possible. Third-party cookies are used to display relevant ads and to analyze how Renderosity is used. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understood our Terms of Service, including our Cookie Policy and our Privacy Policy.
LaurieA posted at 9:49AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354120
It is a "horrible" (not horrible, but not very efficient) request because it would require Poser to remake its tech to make Genesis work with it - the weight mapping modes are different, for one. They'd need to use tech that's owned by Daz, they'd need to replace the current Poser tech (which is good) breaking all WM content Poser already has, etc.
Again, it would enslave Poser development to Daz.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.