Asking for outside opinions on these brows.

Bear in mind that they have not been blended into the underlying photoshop skin layer so they are a little bold right now, they're on their own transparent layer as are all the details and makeups. I just flatten for tests. Also no bump map made from them yet. No bump in general other than turbulence. Also have not added in any asymmetry yet. Although this Firefly test render has slight posing of face chips.

Just wondering if the position and style looks ok... Fits with the rest of the textures?

I'm trying to avoid that weird super high eyebrow look that you see with many La Femme characters, though not really aiming for photorealism, which I don't think La Femme standard resolution lends herself well to, or I even have the skill to do, just more illustrative attractiveness. This is no subdivision applied.

Makeups painted in mudbox and PS. Brows were created using Atenais' abr makeup brushes and some alterations with the liquify tool in PS. I think the brushes are really good, much more detailed than most "snippet" eyebrows I've seen and no skin behind the hairs to blend into the underlying face texture.

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/makeup-brushes/92074

As an aside I look at some of Rhiannon's characters for Genesis and I wonder why I'm even bothering to do this, jeez Lol.

Thanks for input.

...thinking they need to be a little higher. Last version was bushier and maybe higher. I get all OCD about these kinds of things..

what is the goal? Photo-realism? Comic book style? Oil on canvas?

Just a nice character, definitely not photorealism. Probably more "artistic poser render" style. I did the morphs, I've painted the textures (the skin is a heavily altered Gail precious MR), as far as render style.? This a test render. 1 infinite, 1 spot, IDL, envirosphere with a gradient applied. The shaders are the base sss shaders included with La Femme.

Do you think the look is too confused stylistically Ghostship?

Definitely not a final render set up. It's the set up I've been using to test textures. Really on the fence about the brows though. Keep going back and forth.

In any case the final brows are going to be it for 2 or 3 characters in the set. But I have some fantasy makeups that I painted. All the characters are brunettes, as much as I want to make a freckley blonde or redhead. I'm not using the transmapped brows so the brows will be merged with the face texture. With all the makeups I'm hoping the file sizes aren't too gigantic. Maybe next project, blondes and redheads, if I don't get burnt out on this.

Ps. I really need to start putting all of my thoughts into one post Lol.

Wouldn't mind trying to do this type of character...

Humph. Considering that only one person has responded (sort of) thinking maybe my work on La Femme isn't up to Rendo Poser Forum standards lol. That's sort of a bummer...

The hair looks really good except for one detail. The hairs are pointing in the wrong direction they should grow from the centre outward (see the photo above)

What dadt said, plus the lower edge of the brows looks too hard, as does the transition of the lip colour to skin. IMO, the eye makeup is too "Blade Runner", if you get my drift.

Well, yer did ask.

As you strictly asked about the eyebrows, that is only what I am going to comment on to avoid misunderstandings. I think you can safely move them a bit higher. Watch the direction of the hair growth. If you want opinions on the entire project as it is presented now, let us know.

Rhia474 posted at 4:38PM Wed, 01 July 2020 - #4393582

As you strictly asked about the eyebrows, that is only what I am going to comment on to avoid misunderstandings. I think you can safely move them a bit higher. Watch the direction of the hair growth. If you want opinions on the entire project as it is presented now, let us know.

Well, that's me told. :P

my bit of advice would be to use photo textures instead of painted photoshop ones. Plenty of photo eyebrow sets on rendo to choose from. Same advice with skin texture. Use photos. Some folks want to get tricky with procedural freckles or procedural lip color/ eye shadow and that never looks quite right.

Ok. Let me address the comments one at a time. It's a wip after all. Did I mention everything is test renders and not merged down.

@ghostship Um there's no procedural other than the bump, because I haven't made the bump maps yet... There will be bump maps for skin and hair. The textures are from photos. I like the painted brows ( the brushes I'm using are photo derived)...

As far as the direction of the hairs and there being a hard line? Look at many womens brows lately? I have lol... notice how the hairs in this photo are growing inward and horizontally. There's all kinds of eyebrows, just happened to choose this photo based style. And like I said they're not blended yet...

The original post render has goth/vamp style makeup applied. I have many others painted...

Here's some photos of that style of lipstick. Notice they're not blurry transition?

Here's a more subdued makeup style from my textures...

THIS is bladerunner style makeup Sam...

I'll take your advice Rhia474, I think the brows could go a little higher.

Thanks.

As far as critiques go. Put yer money where yer mouth is folks ;)

Those photos of the models with lipsticks are enhanced in image editors. So that is really not how it looks natural.

My first advice is regarding the renders. Take an envirosphere, something light can bounce off of like a background wall maybe, and one infinite light and perhaps a specular. There is way too much light all over your renders and it washes out everything, making it look like a flat 2d painting. If that is what you want, the look you are aiming at, that is fine. But in today's Poser, it's not the best you can achieve and you lose details because you flood the scene with light.

You are saying this is still a work in progress: what ghostship says is great advice about photos instead of painted. And make sure the photos are not retouched.

My personal opinion is that the colour map is the least important of the lot. Surface relief is the most important and can help when making colour maps - run a height map through xNormal (which is free) to get an occlusion map; convert height to normal, then normal to cavity - then use those maps in Mudbox as masks to add/tweak details. So I would get bump working first - if you have a good bump as a base you could re-use that for multiple characters. If you're using Firefly then I assume you'd be making a specular map; Superfly is a little different, I can go into detail if you want, but that would be the second thing. I'd leave colour til last.

Eyebrows - I assume that you're keeping them on a separate layer in Mudbox? The last time I textured with SP I would tweak a texture, export the map, rename it and overwrite the previous map in the runtime structure I had going, then hit reload textures in Poser to save going through the material room again. I think that if you can get a workflow going that allows making changes and testing them quickly without too much hassle it makes it easier to not get too attached to a particular change, if that makes sense.

When I set up materials in Poser I always use a single white infinite light at 100% intensity with no bounced light, and move the light around a lot and do loads of test renders. I figure that it is the most basic set up there is and if a material works there it'll work under any set up (though haven't done any serious work in Firefly for years now as Superfly has far too many advantages). If I do have bounced light in there I make sure it's neutral - I can't judge things properly if there is a colour cast coming off the light setup.

Also worth using the orthographic cameras (if you aren't already) to get a change from the perspective distortion of the normal cameras, especially for things like judging height of eyebrows.

I really like the Blade Runner type make-ups, more like that would be good ;)

Regarding the lips, yes, I agree there are many styles that have a sharp transition but somehow, yours look fake where the others don't. Yes, I've seen plenty of eyebrows but they are either natural - or at least not painted - or obviously painted. Something about the brows on yours that sits in an odd region between both.

As for putting my money where me mouth is... I don't do human textures any more. I don't think I even have any of my old ones and I ain't about to make any more.

I think most of the characters (female) have too high eyebrows, it's one of the first things I change when I customize a character. It bugs the heck out of me.I like what you have and would love to see a character like the freckle-faced girl you have up there. I've also been playing round with heavier brows as is the current trend. I like what you are doing. Keep it up ... it's more individual.

Ok. Best points so far are Caisson. Um... I'm just trying to make some pleasing characters for La Femme not a photorealistic manifesto lol. If you've ever looked at anything I model or render, and yes most of my images are of things I make myself, you'll see that I'm totally not going for strict realism.

To Rhia474's points... it's a test lighting setup, for the 3rd time its IDL; a specular/shadow spot, a diffuse infinite, BBs envirosphere with a gradient. The figure is in a half box. Lighting seems good enough to see the textures properly to me. Should I test textures in poser with bright lights or with moody dramatic lights? Is there blowout? Anyway, when it comes time for promo images I'll worry about those kinds of renders, and for seeing the forms of my sculpts AO etc in mudbox works great.

Finally, I should have just said it's a toon character. Have you looked at most of the characters being produced for La Femme? Ever wonder why they're all Toony looking? Not photorealistic? I challenge you to find a photorealistic looking character for the figure, there are a few notable exceptions, using superfly or anything. From people who are top artists no less. Do I really need to post images? Ok, here's the one that comes on the cover of the La Femme Pro users guide. Does this look like a real person to you? I can post many many more. I like toon figures though, so for ME it's not an issue.

Yeah Caisson, mudbox bridges directly with photoshop. Changes made in one reflect in the other. Very handy. Also figure can be painted at standard resolution and UDIMM by default, so I like Mudbox very very much for what I do. I'm just going to use standard bump maps. More outlandish makeups too. Also I'm only making a few "realistic" characters. La Femme lends herself well to toons and creatures, the mesh is completely enclosed so outlandish deformations without holes at ears, throat, and eyes make that much easier. We'll see. I may lose interest and go back to just modeling my own stuff... being that I've probably spent hundreds of dollars on MR, clothes, hairs, etc for La Femme (including Ghostmans last two bodysuit offerings) I think I'll concentrate for a while on the figure. Thanks for your suggestions.

Thanks Boni

Take Care

Cover of La Femme Pro Users Guide...

One final comment about the lips. When I merge all my makeups down into the skin layer I'll do some blending so the transition edges are a wee bit more subtle. I have said that everything isn't blended yet right? I think probably 3 times now lol.

Notice there isn't any burnt in specular? Well there was in the MR. It's unavoidable but fixable.

@EldritchCellar I think you are doing a great job here. LF needs more help to look better. So keep up the good work. ;) One thing she is really lacking is expression. The ones she have now only make her scare people away.

Very tough to get good expressions with her. Which is ironic considering the face chips. I will concede that I need more practice with her expression capabilities. I plan on making some custom morph expressions, they're a little more tricky to do than say V4 because they'll basically have to be MCJs so that the chips aren't out of whack. It's on the horizon. So far my injection tests work fine. It's a little intimidating making this as a MP candidate... I wish I could just do it as a freebie but I've already started down the road with MR skin and utilizing a few of Deecey's included morphs ( just the Eye and Mouth and Teeth translating dependency morphs, which save a LOT of hair pulling)...

But I'm not rushing anything, just having fun with the figure. This isn't motivated by any desire to be a vendor or anything. Commerce and Art kind of gives me the creeps LOL.

Thanks for not stomping all over my efforts.

Ok I lied a little. I wouldn't mind having that little brush next to my name ;) And store credit for a sale would be nice even if it's a little bit.

On the topic of expressions. If I were to pose her face with the chips and adjust that result with a morph I guess that would be a JCM. If however I just applied a custom expression morph and used the copy centers command would that adjust the chips to their proper positions in regard to the morph or would that telescope the chip deformations onto the morph and create a hideous mess? I don't really expect an answer but it's some of the challenges looming on the horizon, I want to give her some custom smiles and erotic faces LOL.

Here is a render of a character I am making. I was looking for more realistic ... and studied photos of Greek women, I call her Barbara Constantinitas.

La Femme Other Look mat, one light, Snarly's envirosphere, not even a Superfly render. There are 'non-toony' Le Femme characters out there, but I agree with you regarding the bad promos in general. Wishing you luck with your project.

Meanwhile

Eldritchcellar stomps off dejected and vowing revenge, dragging a sobbing La Femme behind him.

Once safely ensconced within his eldritch cellar, eldritchcellar goes to work, hastily performing radical deconstructive surgery upon a hapless La Femme.

Brandishing a silvered hand mirror with a flourish, he thrusts it into La Femme's trembling grasp with a diabolical finality

"Look now upon the wonders I have wrought unto you La Femme!"

La Femme reluctantly gazes upon her visage and

"Gasp! Wha- what? what have you done to my beautiful face!? No. Nooooooo! La Homme will never love me if I look like this, you- you've made me into a... MONSTER!!!

We draw the curtain as La Femme lay in a heap at the feet of Eldritchcellar; she convulsing with tears. He twisting his oiled mustachios with triumphant triumph.

Taking a break from texture stuff for a minute and started working on some expression utility morphs that will help in the creation of some new custom expressions for La Femme. The utility morphs are designed to work on the base La Femme shape and work as intended on my character morphs.

The first thing I wanted to address is the creasing deformations around La Femme's mouth that occurs when her included Smile Wide expression is dialed in. While these kinds of facial creases occur in real life it's nice to be able to control the amount that occurs for various reasons. Here's Default La Femme's Included Smile Wide morph dialed to full strength...

I used subtractive morphing to create a smoothing fix that can be dialed over the existing smile morph to desired strength. Here's that smoothing morph dialed to full Strength while Smile Wide is active.

Finally, if you've ever applied both of La Femme's expressions Smile Wide and Mouth Open you'll see that the wrinkling and deformations of the jaw and chin mesh become rather extreme...

Here's with the smoothing morph applied at full strength...

Anyway, these kind of adjustable utility morphs come in handy.

I had at first thought that La Femme's included expression morphs were linked directly through dependencies to the face controllers but it turns out they're not. Just a bit of ERC will be needed to create the expressions I'm considering making. And very little at that. I think La Femme's teeth, mouth open, and smiles will get the most attention. In any case I'll design the morphs to work with the default La Femme and the custom characters I'm creating, utilities and expressions included as additional options to the characters. That's my intention at the moment at least.

Now you got my attention. hehe

Hope you make that Sexy Spacesuit ghost. Probably be pretty painless to repurpose your body suits and older stuff for V4 into something. I could kitbash something together that would work for La Femme from older stuff for V4 and a La Femme body suit that would be workable for personal use but just having it ready made would be nice and I bet it would sell too. Strongly consider it, it would totally go with the stuff you've been making for her.

Also, La Femme needs more zippers LOL

On that note, would love to see lilflame make some things for La Femme...

EldritchCellar posted at 6:38AM Sat, 04 July 2020 - #4393825

Also, La Femme needs more zippers LOL

Are you saying she talks too much? Where else would you put a zipper on her? I don't think I want to know that answer.

RedPhantom posted at 7:43AM Sat, 04 July 2020 - #4393828

EldritchCellar posted at 6:38AM Sat, 04 July 2020 - #4393825

Also, La Femme needs more zippers LOL

Are you saying she talks too much? Where else would you put a zipper on her? I don't think I want to know that answer.

Don't give me any ideas LOL. Seriously though I meant clothes.

Zippers are a nightmare to model though, from my understanding. I've never made any clothing before but just from a modeling in general perspective I imagine convincing, detailed zippers are tricky.

There's a few clothing artists that have those types of things down pat. Unfortunately they all seem to have went over to Genesis exclusively. I know that fetishwear is sort of "rolleyes", because of the glut of that type of stuff for V4 over the years, but there's a void to be filled for that type of wear for La Femme. And when well done those types of 3d models are really very beautiful with all the detailed straps, buckles, and zippers. Akin to how well made historical dresses and gowns are beautiful from a 3d model perspective. In that regard I've been so busy doing morphs and textures since I've started using Poser again that I really haven't had a chance to do much dressing up and serious rendering... all the clothes and hairs I've bought, and Crossdresser, has gotten almost zero usage. Looking forward to getting to play with all those toys, and doing conversions, and just trying to make pretty pictures.

RedPhantom posted at 10:10AM Sat, 04 July 2020 - #4393828

EldritchCellar posted at 6:38AM Sat, 04 July 2020 - #4393825

Also, La Femme needs more zippers LOL

Are you saying she talks too much? Where else would you put a zipper on her? I don't think I want to know that answer.

Or

"Yes...

yes. It's really quite terrible, I can't get any sleep at all with her... with her... constant whispering. She... she tells me to...

Do Things "

(creepy theremin music swells)