does Cycles not render in Firefly? Or probably I am doing it wrong: I connect the Toon Bsdf to the CyclcesSurface Surface input - comes out black in Firefly. I add an AddCLosure in between - black. I add a "normal" node to the normal input - it is still black,

But seems to work as expected in Superfly.

So whats wrong?

Also, a related question, I try to understand the ProbeLight Shader. Not sure what it is used for. What are the "L" parameters? The manual doesnt explain them. Lights positions?

Lastly, I try to make a custom toon shader as an alternative for the toon shader. I use FresnelBlend and/or EdgeBlend with a step function to draw outlines and a shade which works ok.

But for the shades, I want a shading function that is dependent of the angle of the light. Like a regular shader.

But you can only connect the shaders directly to the DIffuse, Specular etc inputs, and not change their output with a step function etc etc before that.

So any ideas where you get a light angle dependent shading function from?

Thats why I tried cycles, but see above - dont get it to work in Firefly.

Thanks.

I have some solutions over at my deviantart account. You ened to view up and down my gallery for my screen captured Material Room solutions, sorry about that.

Here is a collage I made to show the different effects of Non-Photorealisitic light sensitive shaders using Cycles root surface and cycles shader trees: http://fav.me/ddz6bqt

Thanks, it's appreciated, and I also found your shaders on sharecg.

However it takes a little too much time for me search and go through all this, since in the end I want to do quite different things, so I assume the relevant node I am looking for is the Fresnel Node?

Actually I think I misunderstood the Fresnel slighly and wasnt aware that it really already does give a light angle dependent shade.

But why does the ToonBsdf not render in Firefly when I connect it directly to the CyclesSurface Surface input like mentioned above?

I want to keep the basic toon shaders a simple as possible, cause in the end I want a hybrid look where a lot of other stuff goes into the flat materials and the toon is just for making a "posterize" effect and outline.

So I try to avoid cycles if possible since the structure gets large quickly, and especially since I have this bug where the modules jump around on screen...

I also missed the LightPath module, so, can you also use this with the PoserSurface Node? oder Do you need to use CyclesSurface when you use this?

I am a little bit confused which modules and renderers are compatible and which are not.

starlingblue posted at 8:33AM Mon, 07 September 2020 - #4398831

Actually I think I misunderstood the Fresnel slighly and wasnt aware that it really already does give a light angle dependent shade.

Of course it doesnt, it just gives reflection vs refraction as greyscale.

And no, it seems you can't use it with the PoserSurface, at least not directly on a shading port to see what it returns.

So what modules can you actually use there? Some you can, some you can't, is there a list or explanation somewhere?

Also, I am looking for a Poser Forum where you actually get useful information quickly, any tips?

what am I doing wrong? why does this most basic connection render black in Firefly, and how are you supposed to do it right? It shows as expected in the preview, and renders in Superfly.

Thanks

firefly does not recognise the cycles node.

Superfly can recognize and render Cycles nodes. Firefly is an earlier render engine that does not work with Cycles nodes. You have to use the right tool for the right job.

Thanks folks.

I suspected that but didnt find a relevant info in the manual- stupid that the CyclesSurface has the "Firefly" radio checkbox. So you can switch it on but it doesnt render.

Stiff like that can drive you crazy, when you spend hours to figure it out-

Meanwhile I found that you can use the shaders in PoserSurface, when you feed them into a Blender node first. Then you can send this into a step function etc. So I got my posterize effect, will post images later or tomorrow

It seems a little bit slow to render though, not sure why, its not even raytracing.

Superfly is barely documented. The information can only be had by scouring the threads or being at the mercy of whether someone wants to or even can answer your questions.

Can anyone explain the Value Operations tab of the dependency editor?

Yeah. Maybe like 3 people in the whole of the Poserverse. One is dead. One is homeless. And one hates you. :D

this is what I got, 0.07 % closer then yesterday, and that ist what I want to achieve:

https://muchofmucha.tumblr.com/

not even close, and I also know it can not be done in Poser, but the closer I get the more happe Ill be

I'm not sure what shaders you're using, but I found this shader works well. with the preview render engine.

Thanks for your time.

It's probably the smartest solution, and basically what I started with.

However I wanted more control over some details and a more subtle shading.

I would like to have a more consistent but broader outline, and no "outline" shades in the face or more control over them when they occur.

I also would have liked to use GI and/or AO on the shading for more subtle plasticity.

More control over where the borders are between shades.

Less posterizing on the brighter shades of the skin, and some other details.

Of course you can build on your scheme and add any complexity and more toon shaders and achieve that in some parts.

That's what I did first, but some things can't be achieved, like what I would like the outline to be like.

I also ran into some problems while trying to improve on that. So I started to rebuild the toon shader from scratch.

I use fresnel blend or edge blend into math functions "step" for the outline and then mult to add it to other parts, etc.

I use Diffusion -> blender -> step -> inverse -> mult for instance for the dark shadings and Phong in a similar fashion (with inverse mult) for the highlights etc.

But all in all it doesnt look very different or improved compared to your solution.

But I didnt know, you have to try these things to find out, and there is still a lot of things I could try-

For instance I actually can have a broader, more sharp outline than the toon shader, but it tends to fill to large areas when the angle is sharp. So it's not really improved, even though it does what I wanted.

I also tried the comic book look from the Preview, but it didnt get me where I wanted.

All these soultions including yours don't look bad when you spend a little more time finetuning them, but it's not 100% what I want - in the end I want to create new looks that do not look much like what we are used to from 3D or Poser...