Well, I'm still dithering over a new Windows laptop to replace my automatically updated MAC that now won't run my much enjoyed Poser 10. Apple seems to think I should have a second MAC to run my 32 bit programs. Trouble is they wont 'GIVE' me one to use my old 32 bit apps that I can't afford to update. Meanies! Anyway, I've been looking at laptops that run good old Windows 10 'cos that will run 32 bit programs. Thing is the majority of i7 laptops come with 8GB of RAM. My MAC had 16 so I don't know if 8GB is enough. I know it probably depends on scene size but a general idea of if 8GB is enough would be a starting point? I'm thinking that Poser uses the processor to render scenes so an I7 should be more important than the graphics card. Any ideas on RAM?

The more RAM the better. It will decrease render time and prevent bottlenecks in the long run.

Try to get one of the newer AMD Ryzen Laptops. Faster and cheaper than Intel machines. Most of these Laptops can be simply upgraded to 16/32 GB RAM.

Here are some of them: https://www.windowscentral.com/best-amd-ryzen-laptops

If money is not an issue, you may look for a "Gaming Laptop". These laptops are equiped with powerful graphic cards.

If you used to do a lot of Poser (and other graphic software) better look for a desktop machine. Mutch faster and more powerful than laptops for the same price (or even cheaper).

adp001 posted at 1:47PM Mon, 07 September 2020 - #4398837

If money is not an issue, you may look for a "Gaming Laptop". These laptops are equiped with powerful graphic cards.

That's what I wound up doing last November when my old laptop gave up the ghost. I went to Dell, and wound up getting an Alienware m15 gaming laptop. They DO have a Dell G Series gaming laptop for a lot less money, so you have that option too, if necessary.

If you're running 32 bit Poser, isn't there a limit to the RAM it can use, 4Gb or something like that? Even on a 64 bit system?

Sadly, IMHO, you need a powerful combination of RAM size and processor through-put. Will Poser_12+ still support 32 bit ? Probably, but I fear Pro may be exclusively x64...

Also, having a fair headroom of RAM should help if you need to drive a second display.

I run Win'10 x64 but, despite 32 GB RAM, I've found PoserPro 11.3 x64 may still choke while or after rendering big textures in big scenes in Superfly. Trash collection, Perhaps. Okay, I've learned a few ways to mitigate the log-jam, but eventually have to switch progressive rendering back from my twin GPU cards to the 8-core CPU. And, then, yes, after watching the first few paths' pixels appear, wander off for several leisurely cups of tea...

I have a 32 gb ram and 8 gb gpu, 2070 max q card. I render texture maps up to 8k, multiple with fibermesh hair, peach fuzz and clothing. And all works just fine. Rendering doesn't take too long and no choking.

IMHO, your GPU card is two clear generations beyond, and a full order of magnitude more powerful than my twins combined...

Yes that is true, however before this one I had a 2gb gpu card and could render the same only 4k maps. It is very important to have true bpr materials and maps in order to have the render engine render it properly and quick.

This render is done on the 2gb gpu.

Peach fuzz and fiber brows , unfortunately I couldnt add fibers to the cloth, the 2 gb were already used.

And so is this one

I almost pulled the trigger on getting a new machine yesterday. I know I'm still looking for a GPU card, though, but it keeps getting mixed up with Integrated HD just before I order. Fortunately I catch it. I'm still looking for a refurbished machine, though. Can't afford a new one.

What is your budget and what do you want to do? That are important questions regarding a gpu

Honestly, All I want to do is cut down on the render times of Poser and to be able to run Blender. Right now, I'm trying to keep my budget below $600. If it was a year ago, I could drop in at one of my local used computer stores to get the help and advice I need. I was hoping that I could still do that soon.

What do you think of Intel HD 4000?

The problem with the 4000 is, that it is not going to render faster. It also depends how fast the cpu is. Different speeds for the 4000 is depended on the cpu model. Is Tis conperable with the geforce 3300m series. I had a 940m series and poser did not render fast.

I would go for a Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 Gaming OC 6G, that one is around 300 bucks

Here is a benchmark

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti-vs-Intel-HD-4000-Mobile-125-GHz/4037vsm7653

Miss B posted at 9:50AM Wed, 09 September 2020 - #4398855

adp001 posted at 1:47PM Mon, 07 September 2020 - #4398837

If money is not an issue, you may look for a "Gaming Laptop". These laptops are equiped with powerful graphic cards.

That's what I wound up doing last November when my old laptop gave up the ghost. I went to Dell, and wound up getting an Alienware m15 gaming laptop. They DO have a Dell G Series gaming laptop for a lot less money, so you have that option too, if necessary.

Ditto here, by getting an Acer Aspire 7 (using the iRay render engine means getting a GeForce GPU, and the Aspire 7 came with a Geforce GTX 1080 w/ 6GB vRAM).

EClark1894 posted at 7:35PM Wed, 09 September 2020 - #4398969

Honestly, All I want to do is cut down on the render times of Poser and to be able to run Blender. Right now, I'm trying to keep my budget below $600. If it was a year ago, I could drop in at one of my local used computer stores to get the help and advice I need. I was hoping that I could still do that soon.

What do you think of Intel HD 4000?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z620-Xeon-E5-2650-2-00Ghz-8-Cores-32GB-Ram-250GB-SSD-2x2TB-HDD-18217JN/383712971725?hash=item5957134bcd:g:EtUAAOSwnd5fWOUn

You're welcome.

Don't buy ANY video card right now. We are about to see a massive performance increase.

Nvidia dropped their 3000 series of cards this week. People that spent $1,200+ on their 2080Ti last year are on suicide watch, since the GTX3070 ($499) will out perform it.

AMD announces RDNA2 (Graphics) in 4 weeks. And Zen3 (CPUs) a couple weeks earlier

People keep suggesting I build my own computer. Now, if I were 10, maybe twenty years younger, I'd do just that. I was really into computers back then. But now, I don't know enough about them to know what to buy let alone build a good one.

That is why I made my recommendation. Add ram (DDR3 server ram is stupid cheap right now), and a new video card.

ssgbryan posted at 3:59PM Thu, 10 September 2020 - #4399114

That is why I made my recommendation. Add ram (DDR3 server ram is stupid cheap right now), and a new video card. One computer I have my eye on I can order with 32 Gigs of Ram. Reminded me of when I got my first Mac Classic. Came with a whopping 64k of RAM!

Short answer: No, 8GB of RAM is most definitely NOT enough to do 3D graphics, not for a new machine you're planning on buying. (Obviously some people doing 3D graphics right now are doing just fine, or at least relatively OK, with 8GB of RAM, but I'm positive they all wish they had more!) I've had 16GB from before I started using Poser (in 2014), and last year I got a new machine with 32GB of RAM, and holy cow what a difference!

Now obviously, other things make a difference also, but 16GB of RAM should be considered the bare minimum for any new machine you want to do 3D stuff on. I've also found that having an internal SSD rather than HD makes a big difference in the speed of... well, everything!

As for GPUs, I'll leave that advice up to Windows users, as I'm a MacBook Pro user (which means I can't use GPU rendering unless I get an external GPU, but that's fine since I prefer Firefly anyway!)

perpetualrevision

We are talking about vram, gpu. For most people 8 is enough. Normal ram, I agree but that doesn't speed up the renderer much anymore.

Liquid_Ice posted at 3:02AM Sun, 13 September 2020 - #4399185

We are talking about vram, gpu. For most people 8 is enough. Normal ram, I agree but that doesn't speed up the renderer much anymore.

The original poster was talking about regular RAM, not GPU memory, so that's what I was responding to! He has a Mac with 16GB of RAM that no longer allows him to run 32-bit apps, so he was wondering about switching to a (cheaper) Windows machine with only 8GB of RAM, if that would be enough. I would say no, that's not enough RAM, regardless of platform -- not for someone wanting to do 3D graphics. Or rather, while it may be enough for someone currently using a machine with only 8GB, I wouldn't recommend purchasing a new machine with only that amount, unless you can upgrade the RAM yourself.

@phil_lawson: Here's something else to consider: Why not just roll your Mac back to an earlier OS? I'm still on macOS 10.14 (Mojave) b/c I don't want to deal with the restrictions that might start cropping up with 10.15 (Catalina). I also don't have automatic updates turned on, so that I have full control over what gets updated, or not. If you have a good backup system, then reverting to the previous macOS shouldn't be that difficult (Google it). Then you can disable automatic updates and continue to use Poser 10 to your heart's content :-)

Hi, firstly thank you all for the feedback regarding my query, much appreciated. Yes, I was talking about regular RAM and I have already installed Mojave, I even ran a terminal script to ensure only the Apps upgrade and not the O/S but I think the issue goes deeper. Yes, I could just about scrape up the cost of upgrading Poser but what about software like Photoshop? At the moment I am lucky enough to have a copy of Elements 6 for both Windows and MAC.But they're both 32 bit. If I wanted use Photoshop now I'd have to subscribe for around £19 (I'm in the UK) a month. That's a lot for someone who may or may not want to use it on a regular basis. Why should I be made to feel that I have to use something to justify the cost? Also I am using a 32 bit version of Microsoft Office on my MAC. It's paid for and does everything I need. Again, another 'rental' piece of software to get to work on an upgraded MAC. Whilst I completely understand the need to improve and update software, I feel that sometimes the home user is being forgotten in the race to make as much money as possible.

Anyway, enough moaning, at least I'm back up and running again (Windows 10 PC with 16GB RAM, 2070 Super and a 500GB M.2 drive. Happy days!

PS. Anyone want to buy a 27" iMAC? :-)

phil_lawson posted at 9:51PM Tue, 15 September 2020 - #4399576

Yes, I was talking about regular RAM and I have already installed Mojave

If you're running Mojave (10.14) and not Catalina (10.15), then you can continue to use 32bit applications for as long as you like. You may get a warning, but just dismiss it, as the warning is about Catalina and versions after that.

Whilst I completely understand the need to improve and update software, I feel that sometimes the home user is being forgotten in the race to make as much money as possible.

Apple doesn't charge anything for OS upgrades, so money is not the main motivation there. Better security and functionality are the motives. But you as the consumer can always opt NOT to install an OS upgrade. And, if you do install one and wish you hadn't, you can always roll back to the previous one.

It sounds like you got a new setup that will work well for you, but I wanted to reply just to clear up a few misconceptions about Macs for the benefit of other readers.

Still running Mojave. Tested Catalina on an exterior drive, but found it was very buggy and didn't really offer any advantages (for me) to compensate for the loss of the 32bit apps I still use.