from the latest news. Just trying to figure out what an "Early Access customer" is. Does this mean all PC users can buy the software the first week of November or only in a special club or maybe Prime members only?

https://www.posersoftware.com/article/487/poser-12-update-updating-to-python-3-in-poser-12

Might be specific invites. There is no clarification however the software is in beta testing now until final release.

At least we have a date now, assuming it doesn't slip again.

Early Access purchases of Poser 12 will be open to all customers that want early access to the new version with the understanding that some features are stil being refined and subsequent downloads/installs of updates may be required.

tim posted at 12:09PM Thu, 22 October 2020 - #4401929

...and subsequent downloads/installs of updates may be required.

What, like every single software release, ever? ;)

@Tim

Has the Old SM activation system been maintained or has that kill switch been removed ? offering the customers and creators a permanent licence option ? Has the Offline activation been fixed as Bondware removed this option from the SM version ? Would be nice to hear that Poser 12 is working without a call home system. Or at least having a Permanent licence with guarantee that if there is a Owner change it does not blow poser again like it happen after the SM deal with Bondware.

Will the customer be clearly informed about the Activation system or is it a surprise after Purchase ?

tim posted at 7:49AM Thu, 22 October 2020 - #4401929

Early Access purchases of Poser 12 will be open to all customers that want early access to the new version with the understanding that some features are stil being refined and subsequent downloads/installs of updates may be required.

@Tim thanks for the clarification!

@Incantus there are no changes planned for the licensing system in Poser 12.

Here are the essentials for full transparency:

• free trial up to 21 days locked to machine-id
• online activation required
• periodic online license check required (7 day grace period, but may be extended by support up to 180 days)
• unlimited seats for queue manager (network render nodes) included
• default of one active machine-id allowed per license over 7 day period (may be increased by support on case-by-case basis)

Appreciate the transparency, even though it's not the answer many of us wanted.

default of one active machine-id allowed per license over 7 day period

Does this mean I can no longer install Poser on both my desktop and laptop, without buying another copy? Or will be the same as it used to be: as long as I'm using only one copy at a time it's okay?

@randym77 looks like we changed the default to a limit of 3 active machine-id's per license over a 7 day period to accommodate the scenario you mentioned.

Thanks!

@ Tim

will the activation of Poser 12 override Poser 11.3 , or can they both be running on one machine, I mean does the two versions runn on there own activation certificate or does one overwrite the other by install.

It is sort of disturbing that initially it was pretended that SM made this activation system and that Bondware is not able to remove it and now it is even stricter then it ever was before, but that is your decision and your right to do so with your personal property.

the other question is if Game Dew is kept , basically if the main basics still runn like in Poser 11 to ensure backwards comp ability, except of the Pytons like mentioned that they will no linger work unless there updated. For a creator it is important to know as there might be the need of older Poser versions to use the Pytons that are essential to build the models. a small example ( Extended Object Manager ) or Erogenesis Lalibits py Easypose Underground etc. there are hundreds of scripts that were build making the Poser figures what they are today. Will models that have special features like Easy Pose or lali still be working in Poser 12 ?

tim posted at 6:36PM Thu, 22 October 2020 - #4401939

@Incantus there are no changes planned for the licensing system in Poser 12.

Here are the essentials for full transparency:

• free trial up to 21 days locked to machine-id
• online activation required
• periodic online license check required (7 day grace period, but may be extended by support up to 180 days)
• unlimited seats for queue manager (network render nodes) included
• default of one active machine-id allowed per license over 7 day period (may be increased by support on case-by-case basis)

@tim thank you for the clear answer ! I guess you have your reasons keeping this sort of activation system.

@Azath - you can run Poser 11 & Poser 12 on the same computer with each having their own license. Our beta testing team does this all the time. There may be some conflicts on which app will handle Poser file types, but otherwise should be fine. We do not plan to invalidate Poser 11 licenses that are used to upgrade to Poser 12.

tim posted at 5:05AM Fri, 23 October 2020 - #4401970

@Azath - you can run Poser 11 & Poser 12 on the same computer with each having their own license. Our beta testing team does this all the time. There may be some conflicts on which app will handle Poser file types, but otherwise should be fine. We do not plan to invalidate Poser 11 licenses that are used to upgrade to Poser 12.

Do you have a plan to invalidate those licenses that do not upgrade? I have asked before and have yet to hear a response. Will Bondware maintain the the SM license server for those of us that may not decide to upgrade till next year or even not at all?

Guess I will for the fist time in two decades skip a Poser version, await the next release and see how things are changing. Until then there might be the option that this activation system will be removed, Sticking on older Poser versions and mainly on 11.1 SM version. there are to many Loss due the Pyton support and no Plan to get these back running, no reason is given to pay for a downgrade and such a strict surveillance system.

I remember it happening on Poser 8 I think when SM first had that Internet activation, then they had to remove it on a update as they had a loss of over 50% of customers. or was it Poser 9 do not remember !

So until Poser 13 comes out Bondware might of cached up fixing the loss and it be worth considering to buy that release. Hoping that Pyton coders will have interests creating new extensions and creators support the newly planed upgrades. Remember , most of the Loyal poser users are older generation that bring in most experience.

It does not mean if one is able to pull out Excalibur of the stone, that he will end up being a good King !

Do you have a plan to invalidate those licenses that do not upgrade? I have asked before and have yet to hear a response. Will Bondware maintain the SM license server for those of us that may not decide to upgrade till next year or even not at all?

From my understanding, if you decide not to upgrade to Poser 12, the current version will still work except there will no longer be any further updating to the software.

hborre posted at 5:20AM Sat, 24 October 2020 - #4402006

Do you have a plan to invalidate those licenses that do not upgrade? I have asked before and have yet to hear a response. Will Bondware maintain the SM license server for those of us that may not decide to upgrade till next year or even not at all?

From my understanding, if you decide not to upgrade to Poser 12, the current version will still work except there will no longer be any further updating to the software.

Thanks for the response; but I was hoping to hear something official. That is why I asked when Tim was responding to this thread. The changes to Poser 12 are substantial and portions of P11 will be depreciated. I do not see Bondware supporting software they no longer develop. I never supported a license server but I have no issue with Bondware or anyone else using using one. Problem is that one was slipped in behind our backs by SM and now I feel that my 20+ years of Poser spending will be for nought because I am unable to drop hundreds of dollars in foreign currency (hellish exchange rate + assorted fees for international commerce) just to keep using those assets as they were produced. For instance the LaFemme ecosystem we so heavily invested in. Was that just a cash grab? I fully understand that there will be no updating software that is no longer supported and the last update was the last that will go out the door for P11 but that was not the question.

Uncertainty is sewn when statements such as "We do not plan to invalidate Poser 11 licenses that are used to upgrade to Poser 12." with no following clarification are made by those in authority to make such statements. That post raises the legitimate question of what will happen to those licenses that do not immediately upgrade. Tim suggests that those licenses that do not upgrade will be made invalid by his statement. All I require is clarification from the source of that statement. Hborre, while your statement is supposed to be comforting it bears no weight as you are not in the position to know for sure Bondware's intentions and neither do we. Tim's statement did not lessen anyone's fears in this regard.

Understand. I am not a DAZ troll. I am not against the future of Poser. I am a 20+ year user of the software that has purchased every version from Poser 2 onward throughout the many owner changes and code rewrites. Some versions were worst than others but I still purchased the software. I don't care about content management and intellectual control of assets or any other anti pirate schemes. I simply want to use the software I have spent decades using and supporting into the future without fear that one day soon into the New Year everything becomes just so much useless money spent. Long time Poser users got screwed by SM and I am not looking forward to being screwed by Bondware.

A business does not make money supporting a license server for depreciated software. If Bondware is moving forward with Poser and will no longer support P11 then we must prepare for the demise of our current installations. I get that. I just want an idea of when the server will be turned of or my P11 license is made invalid as inferred by Tim's comment above.

In the whole history of Poser there has only been ONE 1 case of where an older version of Poser received an update after the next version was out and that was was with Poser 10 when both Windows and Mac made several security changes that broke the Library functions in Poser 10. Other then that once the new version is out the old program has never received any more fixes. You have an issue with Poser 10 not doing something then the answer is to upgrade to Poser 11 or with 11 then use 12.

Currently I have Poser 5 through 11 running on my machine in my office. They each have their own program folder (which is something the Programmer's did) so upgrading to the next version it will also have it's own program folder. There are other programs (NOT Poser) that when you upgrade the program will over write the prior version as they live in the same folder and use the same settings etc. So when Tim says they don't plan to invalidate the Poser 11 license for those that upgrade to Poser 12 that is to allow people to continue to use the prior version. There is nothing is his statement that even vagally implies that Poser 11 not continue to run for all users. The changes to Poser will make it so you should keep both versions, especially if you have something that works in 11 and not 12 like Python scripts since 11 uses 2.7 and 12 will use 3.7.9

Not sure where you came up with the idea that Bondware is going to kill Poser 11. That they won't put anymore effort into fixing Poser 11 is not the same as killing it. At the college where I work we have 100's of servers all running on one set of hardware, so they idea that it is costing anything to maintain the server (over normal costs) is not valid.

Sometimes there might be very good reasons not having to much trust ! It happen to be that there already were allot of lies in statements about Poser . It is understandable as a call home system 180 days or 7 days means that one day you either will not be able to runn your Poser anymore with the excuse ( Sorry we turned off the Host ) and you will lose all your investments on assets you made ! A good trick of Industrials as when money gets short they just turn one off and release another one !

So for my Understanding 7 days or 180 days with special request just means that it is a Lease , but a lease for every single Investment and external Licences. And you can be 100% sure that one day or an other it will be shut down just a matter of time . you then only can hope that like "True-Space" a Microsoft buys it and makes it free for all !

@parkdalegardener happy to confirm that any Poser 11 license will continue to operate just fine after the release of Poser 12.

It's our job to deliver features in Poser 12 that will convince customers to upgrade. I think you'll see the team has done that once the Poser 12 release announcements start to roll out. Some of the new features are quite simply game-changers!

@ Tim Thanks, that does ease my anxiety a bit about features in 12!

Some of the release notes were a bit ambiguous so I can see why people are anxious to confirm that the earlier versions will operate, just no updates will be provided. Appreciate the clarity, Tim, and very excited to see what the future brings.

They might as well remove the

periodic online license check required (7 day grace period) on Poser 11.3 after the release of poser 12 , would save allot of fear and trouble , and if it is not supported or sold any further it would not be any loss for Bondware . But I doubt that it would happen I believe it will remain as it is to make sure that one day in the future the old version could be shut with just a klick. SM did it with no Mercy on PP2014 Game dew and PP11.1 in agreement with Bondware! ( Remember they can even Kill your Permanent Activation ) But who knows I might be wrong and Bondware is not like Smith Micro! Still most is pointing on the Smith Micro business Strategy.

Personally I do not care as I will not update no matter how convincing it might be ( Really do not need that Kill switch stress again ) just feel sorry for the Customers that might one day have to experience again a unpleasant surprise !

tim posted at 5:39AM Mon, 26 October 2020 - #4402104

@parkdalegardener happy to confirm that any Poser 11 license will continue to operate just fine after the release of Poser 12.

It's our job to deliver features in Poser 12 that will convince customers to upgrade. I think you'll see the team has done that once the Poser 12 release announcements start to roll out. Some of the new features are quite simply game-changers!

Thank you Tim for the response. The many surrogates on the forums make it hard to hear the signal through the noise and the current disinformation circulating around here makes it hard to trust in the future of a program I have used for more than 20 years. I'm not looking for the continuation of P11. I just need to be sure that it isn't end of life and on the way out in the near future. In the current world climate it is hard to justify some discretionary spending in foreign currency. Not everyone uses American dollars. Hopefully when things get better next year splurge spending is again the norm.

Azath posted at 3:58PM Wed, 28 October 2020 - #4402132

They might as well remove the

periodic online license check required (7 day grace period) on Poser 11.3 after the release of poser 12 , would save allot of fear and trouble , and if it is not supported or sold any further it would not be any loss for Bondware . But I doubt that it would happen I believe it will remain as it is to make sure that one day in the future the old version could be shut with just a klick. SM did it with no Mercy on PP2014 Game dew and PP11.1 in agreement with Bondware! ( Remember they can even Kill your Permanent Activation ) But who knows I might be wrong and Bondware is not like Smith Micro! Still most is pointing on the Smith Micro business Strategy.

Personally I do not care as I will not update no matter how convincing it might be ( Really do not need that Kill switch stress again ) just feel sorry for the Customers that might one day have to experience again a unpleasant surprise !

I'm with you when i lost my net connection years ago i couldn't use my poser, for awhile but I'll be first in line to get Poser 12

Since Tim has already answered the questions this thread pertains to, I am locking the thread.