Renderosity Forums / Poser - OFFICIAL
Welcome to the Poser - OFFICIAL Forum
Forum Coordinators: RedPhantom
Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 24 1:33 pm)
Subject: Why don't you like Superfly?
3D-Mobster posted at 2:52PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418576
TwiztidKidd posted at 2:01PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418558
There's an amazing artist here who's mastered Superfly very well, his renders are super-cool: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/gallery/?uid=NobbyC
... and he just switched to rendering in Blender lol
People render in all sorts of things, Blender have the benefit that Octane come free with it as far as I know. Actually I render far more in Vray than Superfly, but I still use Poser a lot, because its so easy to work with figures in it, and when Im done I just export the figure to 3ds max and render there. It, very common in discussion here on Renderosity to read how people talking down certain programs due to one thing and therefore reach the conclusion that something else is just better in every single way. But reality is that most people that use 3D applications, switches between them for various reasons. Some might like to model in one program, animate in another, do UVs in a third, to then combine it all and render it in yet another program, to then finish it all in PS :). They all serve some sort of step in whatever workflow people catch on to over time and that they prefer. And given that blender is free means that people don't have to learn blender if they don't want to, but can simply do as me, pose and make the scene in Poser export to Blender and render using Octane, and simply learn how to do that. That doesn't mean that Poser is useless, it just fills one step in the process of making whatever you like, in the end its the final image or animation that is important, not how or which programs you used to get there :)
And people shouldn't feel bad about using premade props, people do this all the time, they just don't take credit for having created them.
I've been using Poser since version 2, and seems like I recall even back then people were using Carrara to render their Poser scenes in. Honestly, I never understood the point or the appeal, but hey different strokes... Of course, i was using Bryce because I needed backgrounds and Bryce would do them. Here's the cover of a book I wrote back then. I used Bryce to make the environment and texture the ship, and the undersea domes.
Here is an artist talking about all the programs he uses and what he uses them for. Thought it would be interesting for people to see.
EClark1894 posted at 2:59PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418582
I've been using Poser since version 2, and seems like I recall even back then people were using Carrara to render their Poser scenes in. Honestly, I never understood the point or the appeal, but hey different strokes... Of course, i was using Bryce because I needed backgrounds and Bryce would do them. Here's the cover of a book I wrote back then. I used Bryce to make the environment and texture the ship, and the undersea domes.
Remember Bryce, damn that could do some amazing landscapes at the time, played with some demo a long time ago, does it still exists or did Vue or what they are called buy them? Never learned how to use it though, just that it looked very cool :)
3D-Mobster posted at 3:47PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418576
But reality is that most people that use 3D applications, switches between them for various reasons. Some might like to model in one program, animate in another, do UVs in a third, to then combine it all and render it in yet another program, to then finish it all in PS :) ...
Dude, it makes no difference what programs an artist uses--the more tools he got in his toolbox, the better he can express himself.
And the audience couldn't give a flying rat's missing tail what tools were used so long as the final product is entertaining and looks good.
Hop on over to NewGrounds and have a look at the top animations for 2020. It's a mixed bag, but once you watch a few of these, you ain't gonna care what it was made with, you just gonna enjoy the trip.
3D-Mobster posted at 5:22PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418584
EClark1894 posted at 2:59PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418582
I've been using Poser since version 2, and seems like I recall even back then people were using Carrara to render their Poser scenes in. Honestly, I never understood the point or the appeal, but hey different strokes... Of course, i was using Bryce because I needed backgrounds and Bryce would do them. Here's the cover of a book I wrote back then. I used Bryce to make the environment and texture the ship, and the undersea domes.
Remember Bryce, damn that could do some amazing landscapes at the time, played with some demo a long time ago, does it still exists or did Vue or what they are called buy them? Never learned how to use it though, just that it looked very cool :)
It's still around. DAZ owns it now, version 7.
EClark1894 posted at 5:55PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418593
It's still around. DAZ owns it now, version 7.
hborre posted at 5:55PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418597
Bryce is still around at DAZ and I got mine for free.
Watched some videos, could only find some from 2015 (latest), it seems a little outdated, at least from the videos I saw. but could probably work nicely if one were going for some comic style landscape or something.
Bryce was the first 3D software I ever used, version 4 to be exact, which was long before DAZ got their hands on it.
It's the reason I became a member here at Renderosity back in 2000 as, at the time, it was the only Bryce forum around. DAZ's Bryce forum is about the only one I've visited in many a year, because David Brinnen and Horo know the software backwards, forwards, and inside/out. I have most of their Bryce goodies from the DAZ store back in the day.
In more recent years, however, I've used it to create interesting abstracts, a few of which are on page 3 of my Gallery here at Renderosity.
_______________
OK . . . Where's my chocolate?
Miss B posted at 6:06PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418599
Bryce was the first 3D software I ever used, version 4 to be exact, which was long before DAZ got their hands on it.
It's the reason I became a member here at Renderosity back in 2000 as, at the time, it was the only Bryce forum around. DAZ's Bryce forum is about the only one I've visited in many a year, because David Brinnen and Horo know the software backwards, forwards, and inside/out. I have most of their Bryce goodies from the DAZ store back in the day.
In more recent years, however, I've used it to create interesting abstracts, a few of which are on page 3 of my Gallery here at Renderosity.
Those are really cool, very creative, didn't know Bryce could even make such stuff, thought it was all about landscapes. :)
Miss B posted at 7:41PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418599
Bryce was the first 3D software I ever used, version 4 to be exact, which was long before DAZ got their hands on it.
It's the reason I became a member here at Renderosity back in 2000 as, at the time, it was the only Bryce forum around. DAZ's Bryce forum is about the only one I've visited in many a year, because David Brinnen and Horo know the software backwards, forwards, and inside/out. I have most of their Bryce goodies from the DAZ store back in the day.
In more recent years, however, I've used it to create interesting abstracts, a few of which are on page 3 of my Gallery here at Renderosity.
As I said, I started using Bryce back during Poser 2. It was actually my 2nd 3d software. I actually bout Bryce 2, 2, and 4 before I stopped using it. I did think that when DAZ bought it it would merge better with Poser, but at that time at lease, it seemed like they actually diverged even more. I still have version 6 in my product library at DAZ, but I haven't used it.
Hmm, I didn't even know there WAS a Bryce forum. Think I'll give it a quick look-see.
WOW!! I don't remember if I saw it back then, but that is one amazing piece of artwork, no matter the software used.
_______________
OK . . . Where's my chocolate?
EClark1894 posted at 10:07PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418602
Hmm, I didn't even know there WAS a Bryce forum. Think I'll give it a quick look-see.
I don't think it's very active these days, but I'm sure there are archived threads you can visit.
_______________
OK . . . Where's my chocolate?
3D-Mobster posted at 8:40AM Fri, 07 May 2021 - #4418600
Those are really cool, very creative, didn't know Bryce could even make such stuff, thought it was all about landscapes. :)
Those were created with tutorials, though I don't remember where the tutorials are. Those were done quite a while ago, so I'm not sure if there are still links available to them in the Bryce forum at DAZ.
_______________
OK . . . Where's my chocolate?
Blender have the benefit that Octane come free with it as far as I know
This is incorrect.
While there is a free stand alone version of octane that requires in internet connection(IIRC) and supports only one GPU. it does not come with a Blender installation.
Blender ships with Cycles(the complete version) and its realtime Veiwport engine EEVEE. There is also the AMD Radeon ProRender for Blender that is a separate install.
I have the these three engines installed but as animated filmmaker I use EEVEE almost exclusively and some time cycles for smoke& fire sims
There is also the free Luxcore engine for blender.
Bryce, like Carrara and hexagon is "necro-ware". Dead programs with no further development/updates and only exist because Daz makes the installers Available
Bryce is still a 32 bit brute force raytrace application built on the ancient code of Eric Wenger ,the french musician who created it.
Miss B posted at 1:42PM Fri, 07 May 2021 - #4418639
Those were created with tutorials, though I don't remember where the tutorials are. Those were done quite a while ago, so I'm not sure if there are still links available to them in the Bryce forum at DAZ.
Ahh ok, don't worry, Im not about to get into Bryce :)
wolf359 posted at 1:43PM Fri, 07 May 2021 - #4418666
Blender have the benefit that Octane come free with it as far as I know
This is incorrect.
While there is a free stand alone version of octane that requires in internet connection(IIRC) and supports only one GPU. it does not come with a Blender installation.
Blender ships with Cycles(the complete version) and its realtime Veiwport engine EEVEE. There is also the AMD Radeon ProRender for Blender that is a separate install.
I have the these three engines installed but as animated filmmaker I use EEVEE almost exclusively and some time cycles for smoke& fire sims
There is also the free Luxcore engine for blender.
Bryce, like Carrara and hexagon is "necro-ware". Dead programs with no further development/updates and only exist because Daz makes the installers Available
Bryce is still a 32 bit brute force raytrace application built on the ancient code of Eric Wenger ,the french musician who created it. Ahh ok just heard it was, haven't actually tried Blender for a very long time.
EClark1894 posted at 9:32AM Sat, 08 May 2021 - #4418582
3D-Mobster posted at 2:52PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418576
TwiztidKidd posted at 2:01PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418558
There's an amazing artist here who's mastered Superfly very well, his renders are super-cool: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/gallery/?uid=NobbyC
... and he just switched to rendering in Blender lol
People render in all sorts of things, Blender have the benefit that Octane come free with it as far as I know. Actually I render far more in Vray than Superfly, but I still use Poser a lot, because its so easy to work with figures in it, and when Im done I just export the figure to 3ds max and render there. It, very common in discussion here on Renderosity to read how people talking down certain programs due to one thing and therefore reach the conclusion that something else is just better in every single way. But reality is that most people that use 3D applications, switches between them for various reasons. Some might like to model in one program, animate in another, do UVs in a third, to then combine it all and render it in yet another program, to then finish it all in PS :). They all serve some sort of step in whatever workflow people catch on to over time and that they prefer. And given that blender is free means that people don't have to learn blender if they don't want to, but can simply do as me, pose and make the scene in Poser export to Blender and render using Octane, and simply learn how to do that. That doesn't mean that Poser is useless, it just fills one step in the process of making whatever you like, in the end its the final image or animation that is important, not how or which programs you used to get there :)
And people shouldn't feel bad about using premade props, people do this all the time, they just don't take credit for having created them.
I've been using Poser since version 2, and seems like I recall even back then people were using Carrara to render their Poser scenes in. Honestly, I never understood the point or the appeal, but hey different strokes... Of course, i was using Bryce because I needed backgrounds and Bryce would do them. Here's the cover of a book I wrote back then. I used Bryce to make the environment and texture the ship, and the undersea domes.
Something I meant to mention but forgot a few days ago... as you can see this is Book One of what was actually meant to be a Trilogy. I did write two more stories in the trilogy, but I never published the books. I even went so far as to start a fourth story before I finally quit. I originally bought both Poser and Bryce to make an animated storyboard of my story. This was actually a few years BEFORE SeaQuest DSV first came out. There was some interest from an agency and I bought Poser when they asked for a pitch. Just thought I'd tell the story. :)
EClark1894 posted at 11:01AM Sat, 08 May 2021 - #4418719
Something I meant to mention but forgot a few days ago... as you can see this is Book One of what was actually meant to be a Trilogy. I did write two more stories in the trilogy, but I never published the books. I even went so far as to start a fourth story before I finally quit. I originally bought both Poser and Bryce to make an animated storyboard of my story. This was actually a few years BEFORE SeaQuest DSV first came out. There was some interest from an agency and I bought Poser when they asked for a pitch. Just thought I'd tell the story. :)
You could always self publish them today or simply as an ebook or something :D
ironsoul posted at 1:00PM Sat, 08 May 2021 - #4418745
I would just like a objective discustion on if Superfy was good or bad. My own option is it works ok but I#m not a pro.
I personally love it compared to Firefly, which shouldn't be understood as Firefly then equal useless, because it have its uses. But to me the key arguments for Superfly are these:
-
PBR workflow, which means that it is highly adoptable between several applications which also uses PBR (which is almost all of them today). This means that you can easily transfer textures and materials from one application to another. Hardly any application as far as I know, can work with Firefly textures. Which means that you have to set them up in whatever program you are using if you want to get the most out of them. Whereas you can almost just plug and play PBR textures into another application and expect a very similar result.
-
PBR materials react much better to different lighting environments than Firefly does, meaning you could potentially have to fiddle with your materials the moment you change lighting because they suddenly look different than what you would expect.
-
Its much easier to create textures for, which you know work well across several render engines. They are in general also a lot easier to understand, as you basically work with "largely" two types of materials, metallic and non metallic and in most cases, its fairly easy to understand, wood equal non material and iron equal metal. :)
-
For a market like Rendo, there is a much better chance that content fit well together if everyone uses the same basic technic of making stuff, my metal would be exactly like someone else's. A good example is the "One glass shader to rule them all" thread, look how different people make glass, which is because we have to make the shader from scratch. Not needed in normal PBR only when you have to mess with cycles.
-
Much more realistic lighting, which is preferable regardless of whether you want to make toon renders or realistic ones. You can always adjust and manipulate an image later on, but it is almost impossible to fix bad lighting. Unless you do some serious paint over.
-
Firefly is good if you need something fast and for something specific. But where realism is not important.
-
Pretty much all professional 3d tools today (if not all) uses PBR, so you can create textures in them and get instant feedback and not having to jump back and forth between programs all the time and things not looking as you thought, to then go back and make new adjustment.
-
Downside with PBR is that it is slower to render.
These are just what I can think of.
ironsoul posted at 4:58PM Sat, 08 May 2021 - #4418752
Mybe tajking the discussiion outsude of thread, just get tired of Superfly being presented as a mistake, its just a tool and what we make of it is down to expectatiion.
I've never said Superfly was a mistake. I just think Full Cycles with ALL the nodes would be better, for development if nothing else.
ironsoul posted at 4:58PM Sat, 08 May 2021 - #4418752
Mybe tajking the discussiion outsude of thread, just get tired of Superfly being presented as a mistake, its just a tool and >what we make of it is down to >expectation
Many of the complaints I see about "superfly" is that its material system is missing several vital nodes such as the color ramp, compared to Blender.
But most poser users buy premade content ,with only a tiny percentage even knowing what a color ramp does, let alone use this node to build their own materials.
As a Blender user I can attest that the color ramp is critical to making many types of complex shaders such as this procedurally scratched metal (See pic)
Also there is no rendered veiwport display as there is in Blender cycles. Tthat is a poser core software limitation not a fault of Superfly per say
However if you want to truly get the full features of the Blender render engine /material system then you will have to manually port your poser content over to Blender for rendering as no actual bridge to Blender plugin exists for poser'as They do for for CC3 pipeline or Daz studio.
EClark1894 posted at 9:45PM Sat, 08 May 2021 - #4418767
Actually, I was going to try to make materials for Poser, but missing nodes and nodes that jump around when you uncompress them, made me quit.
I'm not sure what you mean by "uncompress them", but I would recommend you get Structure's free Node Tidier script. It gives you several options for how you want the nodes to appear. It says it's an update, so possibly will work with Poser 12.
_______________
OK . . . Where's my chocolate?
ironsoul posted at 2:35AM Sun, 09 May 2021 - #4418743
Its not a criticism, just saying that peope that decide to work with poser are not backward or behind the times, just part of their work flow.
Dude, do you know who is behind the times? Artists who use paintbrushes with something called water colors. And behind those are our ancestors who used burned up sticks to express themselves on some cave's wall. Art is art! Regardless of the tool used to express an idea in a human's mind. The only unfortunates lacking in any kind of artistic inclination complaining about a given tool are those who don't know how to use them.
Ironsoul; I'm in your camp. I've said it before and I'll say it again. An artist (or most any other profession) is only as good as his ability to master his tools. The best watercolour artist on the planet may be a complete failure with oils. Is it the fault of the brush? Is it the fault of the paint? Is it the fact the artist is a hack? No, it means he needs more practice and theory on how oil paint reacts with his canvas/backing board of choice. Firefly, Superfly, iRay, 3Delight; Arnold, Octaine; and the band played on. Which is the best? Which is abject crap? Answer depends more upon which render engine the person normally uses than anything else. Oils, water colours, tempra, gauche, and all the rest are just ways to express yourself. Render engines are no different than paint. Learn what to expect from your paint and how to correctly apply it and you can paint a masterpiece or a bedroom wall. It's down to skill at that point.
BTW I haven't touched Firefly in a couple of years now. I saw the advantages to a PBR workflow a long time ago when it comes to cross platform rendering and repeatedly showed images from Superfly and iRay challenging viewers to identify which was which. The maps I produce in Substance can go directly to either engine and with the same HDRI environment there is no real way to discriminate between them.
A lot of folk that don't like Superfly haven't tried it. A lot of folk complaining of long render times have not used a modern version of Poser. Those that complain that their video card is not supported for Superfly renders are not trying CPU renders. The number of missing nodes from Cycles can be counted on one hand with fingers left over. The biggest complaint is no Colour Ramp like in Firefly or Cycles. That node is reproducible with a lot of add clousure nodes chained together and dropped into a compound node. That is Earl's and other's complaint along with compound nodes that expand to off the screen so they have to scroll the screen to see the entire shader. Not sure how that is a Superfly issue. Has nothing to do with the render engine.
Eronik posted at 8:15AM Sun, 09 May 2021 - #4418788
ironsoul posted at 2:35AM Sun, 09 May 2021 - #4418743
Its not a criticism, just saying that peope that decide to work with poser are not backward or behind the times, just part of their work flow.
Dude, do you know who is behind the times? Artists who use paintbrushes with something called water colors. And behind those are our ancestors who used burned up sticks to express themselves on some cave's wall.
Oh dang, wait, I didn't get that memo! Quick help me hide these before the Outdated Police comes to get me LOL!
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Joke aside, the best tool is the one you deal best with. It's a personal thing. I've left Firefly behind years ago, because I love Superfly more. And I've tried other things, and even though I have a new complaint about Poser's bugs every day, it's still my favorite end tool for 3d characters.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Miss B posted at 8:36AM Sun, 09 May 2021 - #4418781
I'm not sure what you mean by "uncompress them", but I would recommend you get Structure's free Node Tidier script. It gives you several options for how you want the nodes to appear. It says it's an update, so possibly will work with Poser 12.
Miss B, thanks for this link! It'll be great to have neat nodes.
W11,Intel i9-14900KF @ 3.20GHz, 64.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, GeForce GTX 4070 Ti SUPER, 16GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."
parkdalegardener posted at 10:25AM Sun, 09 May 2021 - #4418807
A lot of folk that don't like Superfly haven't tried it. A lot of folk complaining of long render times have not used a modern version of Poser.
I don't think this is true. I'm using the latest version of Poser. My video card is supported, and I've done both CPU and GPU renders. The render times are still a lot longer for Superfly than Firefly.
Superfly is slower, and that just doesn't fit my style of work as well as Firefly. Hyperrealism isn't my thing. I confess, I use a lot of trial and error, adjusting poses, camera angle, lighting, etc. Even using low quality rendering to test setups...Superfly is slower than Firefly. (Since you can also use draft mode in Firefly. I have Poser set to default to the minimum quality in the Auto Settings in Firefly, because I do a ton of test renders before cranking up the settings to do a final render. And often end up doing several of those, because I keep changing my mind about what looks best.)
Maybe it would be less of an issue with a better preview, but so many Superfly materials just don't look anything like they'll look like when you render. So I end up doing even more test renders...which are soooo slow compared to Firefly.
I get faster renders in Superfly than Firefly. A LOT of it is knowing what to set up in the options - the more rays for something you set, the longer it'll take and a lot of times those rays will be calculating nothing at all.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Miss B posted at 10:44AM Sun, 09 May 2021 - #4418781
EClark1894 posted at 9:45PM Sat, 08 May 2021 - #4418767
Actually, I was going to try to make materials for Poser, but missing nodes and nodes that jump around when you uncompress them, made me quit.
I'm not sure what you mean by "uncompress them", but I would recommend you get Structure's free Node Tidier script. It gives you several options for how you want the nodes to appear. It says it's an update, so possibly will work with Poser 12.
I was using the wrong word. But basically, it's a compound node that's been expanded. The nodes tend to jump all over creation. I got so tired of chasing them down that I just quit trying. Like I said, it's bad enough to be missing a few nodes that you really need to make a material, but then to expand a compound node to work on it some more and then find the nodes are scattered all over, well ***** it!
EClark1894 posted at 11:01AM Sun, 09 May 2021 - #4418824
Miss B posted at 10:44AM Sun, 09 May 2021 - #4418781
EClark1894 posted at 9:45PM Sat, 08 May 2021 - #4418767
Actually, I was going to try to make materials for Poser, but missing nodes and nodes that jump around when you uncompress them, made me quit.
I'm not sure what you mean by "uncompress them", but I would recommend you get Structure's free Node Tidier script. It gives you several options for how you want the nodes to appear. It says it's an update, so possibly will work with Poser 12.
I was using the wrong word. But basically, it's a compound node that's been expanded. The nodes tend to jump all over creation. I got so tired of chasing them down that I just quit trying. Like I said, it's bad enough to be missing a few nodes that you really need to make a material, but then to expand a compound node to work on it some more and then find the nodes are scattered all over, well ***** it!
That's why I suggested Structures Node Tidier. It's free, and does the job well, and YOU decide how you want the nodes to line up, as there are several options available.
_______________
OK . . . Where's my chocolate?
Privacy Notice
This site uses cookies to deliver the best experience. Our own cookies make user accounts and other features possible. Third-party cookies are used to display relevant ads and to analyze how Renderosity is used. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understood our Terms of Service, including our Cookie Policy and our Privacy Policy.
TwiztidKidd posted at 2:01PM Thu, 06 May 2021 - #4418558
People render in all sorts of things, Blender have the benefit that Octane come free with it as far as I know. Actually I render far more in Vray than Superfly, but I still use Poser a lot, because its so easy to work with figures in it, and when Im done I just export the figure to 3ds max and render there. It, very common in discussion here on Renderosity to read how people talking down certain programs due to one thing and therefore reach the conclusion that something else is just better in every single way. But reality is that most people that use 3D applications, switches between them for various reasons. Some might like to model in one program, animate in another, do UVs in a third, to then combine it all and render it in yet another program, to then finish it all in PS :). They all serve some sort of step in whatever workflow people catch on to over time and that they prefer. And given that blender is free means that people don't have to learn blender if they don't want to, but can simply do as me, pose and make the scene in Poser export to Blender and render using Octane, and simply learn how to do that. That doesn't mean that Poser is useless, it just fills one step in the process of making whatever you like, in the end its the final image or animation that is important, not how or which programs you used to get there :)
And people shouldn't feel bad about using premade props, people do this all the time, they just don't take credit for having created them.