I load a V4/M4 figure but it doesn't "grasp" (Hand) when I turn the knob. Am I missing something?

Did you install the Morph++ package as well if you own it? IIRC, that package may have corrected that problem but there are other methods floating around on the internet. Try Googling or wait until someone with the appropriate solution chime in.

hborre posted at 9:29PM Sun, 08 August 2021 - #4424815

Did you install the Morph++ package as well if you own it? IIRC, that package may have corrected that problem but there are other methods floating around on the internet. Try Googling or wait until someone with the appropriate solution chime in.

yes and still no avail. I should mention I can rotate and transform (xyz scale).

I have noticed that if I create a character for V4/M4 save it as a .cr2 ... go back make another character based on that one ... then inadvertantly delete the original I made ... most of the additional morphs no longer work because of the reference. This is just a quirky thing that I discovered that could be the issue.

Boni posted at 8:51PM Tue, 10 August 2021 - #4424832

I have noticed that if I create a character for V4/M4 save it as a .cr2 ... go back make another character based on that one ... then inadvertantly delete the original I made ... most of the additional morphs no longer work because of the reference. This is just a quirky thing that I discovered that could be the issue.

Can you elaborate further?

Once you save a character to the library 2 things happen, depending on your Poser preference settings. If you have 'use external binary morph targets' checked in the misc tab of preferences the character will be saved to the library with an additional .pmd file. A .pmd file stores all of the morph data (deltas) in a compressed format. The .pmd file will be named exactly as the name you saved the character as, just a different extension. If you save to the library without external binary checked the morph deltas will be embedded within the .cr2 file. Files with embedded deltas tend to be larger and take longer to load. Considering the amount of morph packages that are often loaded onto a Daz character, embedded morph .cr2 files can get ridiculously large and take long to load. Downside to .pmd is that it's a seperate file, so it's vulnerable to being lost or misplaced if you carelessly shuffle things around... the .cr2 calls on the pmd and expects it to be in a certain referenced place, if it can't find it your loaded morphs won't show up.

If this is a fresh install of a gen 4 daz character (m4, v4) and you've loaded morph packs onto it and saved it to the library, the morphs are either embedded or external. If you simply have a m4/v4 saved in a scene the morph data will be either embedded within the .pz3 with the cr2 or externally as a .pmd, with the scene name.pmd extension accompanying the pz3.

I don't think your problem is a misplaced pmd. None of the morphs would work if that's the case. Hard to say what the problem might be. Sounds like something is amiss with a file in the !Daz deltas folder or something along those lines. If the grasp morph worked and now doesn't or if it never worked I don't know. If you ran the bat file and injected the shapes/morphs ++ pack it should work. Unless your installation is or became botched somehow. I've never encountered these problems with gen 4 figures.

In reference to Boni's comment I have seen a .cr2/pz3 reference 2 pmds somehow mysteriously with no explanation, and no means of determining the cause with a utility called Binary Morph Editor that let's you view and edit the contents of pmd files. At least that's what APPEARED to be happening. It occured during many many file saves of a character loaded with probably a hundred or so custom morphs. IIRC it sort of resolved itself during a subsequent save. I can see if something like that were to happen and you were to delete a file during the midst you could lose some morphs...

I think it's possible to confuse Poser if you are saving a character in multiple ways frequently, especially if you're saving injection files too. So if you're saving to a pz3 and also a library cr2 and also to injection files, sometimes during these juggling acts there will be multiple pmds, apparently with bits and pieces spread throughout. Additional saving seems to round all that up, looks like that's what happened in my case... but I do some not typical editing and hoop jumping with many morphs. Just my take on the weirdness I mentioned above.

Oh one more thing, grasp isn't really a morph... it's a pose dial. Basically a master dial that controls the rotations of several joints, it's an ERC or dependency. One thing you might do is click the little circle with line icon to the right of the dial (can't post a pic right now) which will bring up the dependency editor and show you all of the slave relations to that master dial. If nothing's there, in the keyed or value ops tabs, the dial is empty. Also if you double click the dial itself it will show you the dial settings for that dial... settings like dial sensitivity and limits. If the limits are reading 0 and 0 on min max your dial will be frozen. They should read something like 0 on min and 1 on max. If the sensitivity settings are out of whack, some ridiculous amount, you could be spinning the dial to no noticeable effect. Try manually entering the value 1 on the dial numerically and see what happens.

Interesting info in all but the problem is in a V4 figure I don't even see "grasp" at all no matter how many times I apply the "grasp"

It could simply be a corrupted figure and you may have to re-install V4 then re-install the body morphs ++. At this point starting over could save you further headaches.

How can you tell if a figure is corrupted or not? Can the corrupted figure be fixed?

What I am saying is that the figure in the scene ... the pz2 file may need to be dumped and you start with a fresh install of V4 plus her morph packs into a new scene and see if it clears up. I've had to delete scenes that have gotten corrupted myself. It's frustrating if you've worked on a scene for a while, but better in the long run. once a file is corrupted there really isn't anything that can be done but start over.

I've never experienced scene corruption. Which is really saying something considering how much morphing I do. I mean seriously. Scene corruption is a thing from looong ago, like Poser 7. The bugs were ironed out since then. Boni is correct though, save yourself some headaches and reinstall V4 and her packages. Dont forget to run the bat file.

As an aside lakes123, didn't you have a similar problem with gen4 figures a few months ago?

Forgot something. Did you try applying the injection for grasp again? It's a single injection located located in Pose/Morph Injections/Morphs++. Worth a try before reinstalling.

primorge posted at 7:22PM Wed, 11 August 2021 - #4425054

Forgot something. Did you try applying the injection for grasp again? It's a single injection located located in Pose/Morph Injections/Morphs++. Worth a try before reinstalling.

Did that. In any case I'll take your advise in reinstalling the M4 and V4 figures. Only this time I'll run the bat file before I install them in Poser.

If you already ran the bat file, it isn't necessary to run it again. The only criteria, the bat files, the morph files, and the model figures must be in the same runtime folder. If you have multiple installations of those files over several runtimes then you will have major problems with conflicting actions.

hborre posted at 5:51AM Thu, 12 August 2021 - #4425071

If you already ran the bat file, it isn't necessary to run it again. The only criteria, the bat files, the morph files, and the model figures must be in the same runtime folder. If you have multiple installations of those files over several runtimes then you will have major problems with conflicting actions.

The same runtime folder, I'm unsure if I did this properly. Can you show me an image of that?

I don't know what original files you used to install your V4/M4 models; I used the old execution files installed into P7 a long, long time ago. But regardless of whether you used exe or zipped files, the process is relatively the same. Both models and morph packages must be installed into the same runtime folder because they rely on DAZ's ExP system for the packages to associate and create morph channels with the models, otherwise, the morphs will not work. IIRC, the .bat files are installed at the same time as your models and are available whenever you install a morph pack. So, for every morph injection pack you install (Morph++, Aged, Muscle, Creature, etc) you must run the .bat file afterward to make the model channels active. The image below just shows the hierarchy where all the .bat files are located in relation to their corresponding folders.

If you did a typical installation from zip files then everything should work. If you installed your content into different runtimes or generated multiple installation across several runtime folders, you will have problems with morphs working properly. Now, if your OS is Win 7 or higher, don't install any content into the Poser primarily runtime folder. Windows UAC will interfere with those installations and cause morphs to misbehave.

lakes123 posted at 1:38PM Thu, 12 August 2021 - #4425093

hborre posted at 5:51AM Thu, 12 August 2021 - #4425071

If you already ran the bat file, it isn't necessary to run it again. The only criteria, the bat files, the morph files, and the model figures must be in the same runtime folder. If you have multiple installations of those files over several runtimes then you will have major problems with conflicting actions.

The same runtime folder, I'm unsure if I did this properly. Can you show me an image of that?

I wouldn't run the bat file until you have the figures and morph packages installed into a Runtime and ready to use. How I did it this time around was install V4/M4 into my Poser 11 content Runtime (I install manually), installed the morph packages in the same Runtime, ran the relevant bat files for V4/M4 which preps the parameter group nodes and morph channels in the cr2s, and load M4/V4 into a scene (they will load, after running the bat files, with the relevant package parameter groups and morph channels. So you'll have groups for morphs++, muscle, creature, elite, etc if those packages are installed. The parameters will read such and such morph name EMPTY) now Inject the morph poses into the figures. This will populate those named empty dials with the relevant morphs. Done. After doing all this I would save the prepped and loaded figure to the Character library, with a unique name such as V4 loaded or something, so you don't have to go all through the injection pose process again.

I have separate runtimes for clothes and hairs and such.

If you save it back to the library it's important it has a unique name!