only over here, folks are allowed to have guns..just hope they don't get used..sigh..when will it ever end?

Yeah, it could get very ugly.

I Pray it doesn't, I really do.

My personal takeitll end when the extremist Muslims realize that theyre no different than the rest of us and get slammed into submission as a result. Despite their beliefs, freedom will prevail one way or the other. No two ways about it and whatever it takes. I pray for the innocent only and they(extremists) are not there.

Message edited on: 02/14/2006 00:43

I tried to post to this thread 3 or 4 times before, but my words disappeared each time I hit the "Post Reply" button..?

Being Danish, I've followed the cartoon situation with great interest.

Personally, I don't think I would have printed the drawings if the decision was mine.. I believe the freedom of speech comes with an obligation of consideration and respect. Respect is not equivalent to submission and fear does not generate respect.

Still, there are other interesting points in all this.

This is not the first time the Prophet has been exposed in drawings and other images - if you investigate, you'll find that it has been done hundreds of times during history (and this goes for satiric images too) - but never with reactions like what we see this time.

The people in the Arab countries have been misinformed about what goes on here. They have been told by the imams and the media there eg. that Jyllands-Posten (the Danish newspaper) is owned and controlled by the government (whis it isn't) and that koran books have been set on fire in the streets of Copenhagen (which never happened). They have also been shown false images of the Prophet having a pig's nose, which did not come from here.

That is one explanation to the massive reactions. Another is that Denmark is a very small country, and it's possible to threat and harrass without consequenses. I seriously doubt the reactions to be the same, had the cartoons been printed in an American newspaper at first.

Another thing I find important, is that there has been no violent or overly aggressive reactions here in Denmark AT ALL. And there are many muslim immigrants here. I live in an area with quite a few and I notice no difference when I walk the streets or go the store.

The worst consequence I see here is that if we were to have an election now, the outmost right-wing party would gain more votes than usual, and that's sad... And we may loose our export to the Arab countries for good - but it's 2% of the total export, so our economies would survive, I guess..

I just think it's worth considering that all the fuss is going on the Arab states, not here where it actually happened.

Message edited on: 02/14/2006 03:04

**Forum Technical Note Writing out a long reply? If you take too long, that windows session WILL time out, and your message will be lost. Here's what I do; write out my reply, then select all the text and "copy" it before hitting submit. If the message doesn't post, I go back, paste it back in, and re-submit. AS

hotkeys are "Ctrl-a" to select all, "Ctrl-c" to copy to the clipboard, and "Ctrl-v" to paste! politics disgust me in the extreme. I am now sufficiently nauseated by this whole ordeal to voice my vomitous opinion : nowhere is free, everyone bleeds, life's rough no matter WHERE you are, and the three main truths about people remain the same... lovers lie, babies cry, and in war, people die.

Yeah, that's the same thing the news keeps telling me...over and over and... ;o) AS

I believe the freedom of speech comes with an obligation of consideration and respect. This is noble and I would ordinarily agree with you but where is the respect for the other religions of the world? This is not a free pass and one-way street deal for Muslim extremists. They are just as fair game as all other religions. Theirs is not a special religion. They act like immature uncontrollable children who cannot express their anger any other way other than going into fits and tantrums of violence, murder and vandalism. As pointed out earlier in this thread, other religions have endured similar and even more disrespect and they manage to protest civilly. For better or for worst, people will agree or disagree, believe or disbelieve but in free and opened societies we allow for the freedom of speech and expression and thoughts. This allows us to discuss our differences with opened minds and hopefully at the very least, come to compromise if nothing else.

VERY well said Quest :) The only exception I'd make is not everything is up for compromisation. The rules for freedom of speech are one of them. The ability to say what "you" may vehemently disagree with IS the core issue. No limit on that is acceptable! Especially to appease religious doctrin.

i hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but "freedom of speech" means that you can say exactly what you want. the word "freedom" has a definition you know, and if you go changing word definitions around on the fly you aren't actually communicating at all. there are no rules for freedom of speech. either you have it (which nobody does, by the way, it's just a nebulous concept) or you don't. nobody here does. if that was the case, i wouldn't get half my posts deleted for TOS violations! (grins) so i have to agree with you, geoegress... for freedom of speech to exist, it must actually BE freedom of speech. there is no grey area here, either you can speak your mind or you can't. politics are so very far from being polite!

Youre miss-reading what Im saying, I agree that you either have freedom of speech, expression or thought or you dont. What Im trying to convey is that because we have freedom of speech, expression and thought we in a free society can come to terms with our differences. We can agree to disagree. Perhaps I should have used the phrase come to terms rather than say compromise. Im not saying that we should compromise with Muslim extremists, not at all. Im pointing to the differences in our societies.

no Quest i wasn't disagreeing with you at all...! I should have specified who i was directing my information to, but it was a general rant and not intended to be pointed at you... I would agree to disagree with you, but as it happens i agree! tolerance of other's cultures is almost as difficult as tolerance of our own, sometimes. who is the alien? I think that we all are, and words are just an approximation of what really occurs. everyone feels alien to some extent, but sometimes people displace this feeling and blame others for it...?

out here..w ehave so many jokes... on hinduism,on sikhs..on whatever community you from. everyone take sit with a pinch of sugar..they even create stuff...and sms it all over. the laugh about it. i wonder at times, if humans are becoming humorless? i'm not saying that the cartoons were sensitive..they are not. what i do find really really strange is that they were printed..in a country tucked far away in europe. Not seen by others. now..it's all over the world. instad of hushing it up.. keeping it low keyed.. fanatics, and the media and to blow it up out of proportion..hence riots, demonstrations. People getting hurt, angry. does it make sense? whyw asnt it just a hushed up affair.. done and forgotten? why blow it up out of such large proportion.. esp if the cartoons are of a sensitive nature? you know what is also so stange? i'm not so sure of other countries..and religions..but i've noticed there are very few jokes about muslims, but lots on hindus. and of christians. and parsis. and buddhists. does anyone get what me saying?

Thank you for sharing your powerful perspective. Your experiences highlight the importance of freedom, which we often take for granted. In times of oppression, it’s crucial to remember the resilience of the human spirit. This resonates with the teachings of Surah An-Naziat (سورة النازعات مكتوبة كاملة), which speaks to the struggle between belief and disbelief, and the ultimate triumph of truth. Protecting freedom of speech and expression is essential for safeguarding our humanity.

After reading the original post, I was surprised to look at the date and see what a different world many people (thought they) lived in back then. True freedom of speech can exist only where absolute truth is not only agreed upon but submitted to. Philosophies based upon lies cannot allow free speech because they are quickly revealed to be false and, therefore, worthy of derision and contempt. Only the Truth can fearlessly allow fools, cowards, and blasphemers a megaphone.

A population that insists on believing lies and requiring others to pretend to believe them is demanding THEIR OWN subjugation.