Hello dear Poser users,

I've been thinking about spending some money on a few upgrades for my desktop PC.
32GB RAM instead of 16GB would be nice to have.
Buying that isn't that hard, my motherboard requires DDR3 RAM so I need to buy DDR3 modules.
The next item on my list is a bit trickier.
I want to buy a new GPU.
My current one is an Nvidia Gforce GTX 1650 and it works fine.
My workload has increased recently and I notice that I spend too much time waiting for a render to finish.
I know that Poser's overall performance depends on the CPU but at least I can render faster and my painting and texturing application PaintStormStudio which uses GPU for the brush engine works without lags.
To cut a long story short, I'm not sure which brand of graphics card to buy.
The choice is obviously between Nvidia or AMD.
What do you think?
Do you use AMD GPUs and would you recommend buying them?
Suggestions on which model I should look at?

Thanks in advance.

BB

NVIDIA is the obvious choice for various compatibility considerations. Though you also have to look at your PC's PSU, connector-cable(s) and possible pin-adapter, motherboard slot size, possible new type of monitor cable needed etc. Also note that Windows 7 drivers do not support 40 series NVIDIA cards, and that so far as I know Poser 11 didn't support certain capabilities of 30 series cards or higher. 

The sweet spot in power/price is probably an NVIDIA 3060 with 12Gb of onboard RAM. That would also allow you to do local AI image-generation in the future. Around £250 in the UK.

@ HartyBart

Thank you very much for your answer.
I see that I had to lay out the specs of my currend PC to provide the necessary information.
So, my CPU is an Intel Core i7x980 3.33GHz from 2010.
The mainboard is an ASUSTec P6x58D Premium from 2010
The original build had an ATI GPU Radeon HD 5970 Card installed, which was replaced by an Nvidia Gforce GTX 1650 3 years ago. 
I guess the necessary connectors are already in place to run an AMD card again.
The OS is Windows 10 pro and my Poser is version 13 latest edition.
Currendly 16GB of DDR3 RAM is installed and the power supply has 750Watts.
The machine is old, but it works for 14 years absolutly stable and reliable.

I find the way Nvidia distributes graphics cards a bit confusing. On Amazone you get as search results for Nvidia RTX 3060 several different brands and models like Asus or Gigabyte or Zotac and every card has editions.
Thats not really helpful, isn't it?

Here are the specs on the Nvidia website for their cards. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/compare/?section=compare-16 

I'm not tech-literate enough to understand it all.

The 3060 starts at $329 on their website. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/rtx-3060-3060ti/

I just got a new computer this year, W11,Intel i9-14900KF @ 3.20GHz, 64.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, GeForce GTX 4070 Ti SUPER, 16GB (cost me 4 grand, but I didn't get a breakdown of parts' costs). However, one thing I wanted was a good GPU and my GeForce GTX 4070 Ti SUPER, 16GB renders in a BLINK! (Note: I've only tested it on Poser scenes.) I may even attempt animation after my current project.

I don't know all the spec differences between a 3060 and my 4070 Ti Super, but I would expect the RAM size might make all the difference. Of course, my "rig" has a gazillion fans, so I don't know how that plays into cooling needs for graphic cards, but you sound like you know. All I know is my bigger, faster GPU is AMAZING! And it's not even close to being the best one out there. So an Nvidia card with 12GB RAM sounds really good.

Just in case, in my previous computer I replaced my aging RTX2080Ti, installed in a computer that was equipped with a 650W PSU, with a 4070OC, 2-3x the computing power, but consuming 50W less than the 2080Ti 

blackbonner posted at 6:07 AM Sat, 30 November 2024 - #4491756

So, my CPU is an Intel Core i7x980 3.33GHz from 2010.
The mainboard is an ASUSTec P6x58D Premium from 2010
The original build had an ATI GPU Radeon HD 5970 Card installed, which was replaced by an Nvidia Gforce GTX 1650 3 years ago. 
I guess the necessary connectors are already in place to run an AMD card again.
The OS is Windows 10 pro and my Poser is version 13 latest edition.
Currendly 16GB of DDR3 RAM is installed and the power supply has 750Watts.
The machine is old, but it works for 14 years absolutly stable and reliable.

I find the way Nvidia distributes graphics cards a bit confusing. On Amazone you get as search results for Nvidia RTX 3060 several different brands and models like Asus or Gigabyte or Zotac and every card has editions.
Thats not really helpful, isn't it?

Your NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1650 used a PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slot. And it was two slots wide, so it also occupied the adjacent slot. It required up to 75W.

Your ASUSTec P6x58D Premium has 6 PCI-Express slots, but only three of them (the long ones) are PCI-Express 2.0 x16. (The short ones are too short, one is x1 and the others maybe x8? Too short anyway. But that's ok, you only need one x16 and there are three.) My guess is most of those slots are not in use so you might even be able to fit a triple wide card if you wanted.

Note that your slot is PCI-Express version 2.0, but the card was designed for 3.0. And in fact the RTX 3060 is designed for 4.0. That's ok, PCI-Express is backwards compatible, but it means you are not going to get the full speed from whatever card you install. The PCI-Express 2.0 slot transfers data at half the speed of 3.0, and a quarter the speed of 4.0. How much difference does that actually make? I found a benchmark that suggests using 3.0 instead of 4.0 only slows things down by maybe 3%, 2.0 will be worse but maybe it won't be terrible. Just note that upgrading the motherboard would also improve the speed to some degree.

NVIDIA designs GPUs but then licenses them to many manufacturers. So when you search and find the NVIDIA RTX 3060 from Asus, Gigabyte, Zotac, etc, they really are basically all the same thing. Each manufacturer will set them up a little bit differently, mostly in terms of cooling fans, but the difference is usually trivial. Unless one has particularly bad reviews, it shouldn't matter.

NVIDIA's RTX 3000 series cards (3060, 3070, 3080, 3090) are the previous generation. The 4000 series cards are the current generation. Within each generation, lower numbers are less powerful, so the 3090 is more powerful than the 3080, which is more powerful than the 3070, which is more powerful than the 3060. Looking across generations, the 4060 will be more powerful than the 3060 (by approximately 20%), but it's less obvious whether (for example) a 3070 is more or less powerful than 4060. Also, if it has a Ti or Super after the number, that's another step up. So it's hard to compare them directly without looking at benchmarks. This one is pretty easy to read: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

Regarding AMD vs NVIDIA, you will get more of a speed boost from NVIDIA because Poser uses Optix which is an NVIDIA feature. Even if otherwise AMD looks comparable.

Ah, I see. 14 years of development has done more than just faster GPU's and CPU's, it also changed the interfaces between components.

Get it!

Seems to be reasonable to look for a new Mainboard as well. Following the logic of hardware developing, this could mean that my cable set and power supply is also incompatible with the new parts, like the Mainboard and others, right?

I'll have a closer look at this.

Thanks so far for spending time on answering my questions.

It' was already helpful.

I have not played with swapping motherboards or power supplies myself. I think some boards have the same footprint and you might be able to swap them in the same case with the same power supply, but personally I've always at least gotten a bare bones package with the motherboard, power supply, and case. I know there are some different types of power cable connectors but I think there are adapters for that when necessary. So you might have to read up on that yourself.

Personally, I got my current computer from https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/  But today and tomorrow is a good time to buy whatever, whether components or barebones kits or PCs. Shop around.

That's not really complicated to exchange a power supply, as long as it's provided with all the right cables, which is the case most of the time. Swapping a motherboard, on the contrary, is a real adventure (static electricity, processor's thermal paste, connectivity with the case)

blackbonner posted at 7:15 AM Sun, 1 December 2024 - #4491794

Ah, I see. 14 years of development has done more than just faster GPU's and CPU's, it also changed the interfaces between components.

Get it!

Seems to be reasonable to look for a new Mainboard as well. Following the logic of hardware developing, this could mean that my cable set and power supply is also incompatible with the new parts, like the Mainboard and others, right?

I'll have a closer look at this.

Thanks so far for spending time on answering my questions.

It' was already helpful.

At some point, you have to let old technology go.  On the one hand - the PSU connectors for motherboards haven't changed.  There is a new type of connector for higher end Nvidia GPUs - they are very, very problematic however (they tend to melt, taking the gpu & sometimes the psu with it).

The good news is that you can move to a modern platform pretty cheaply, as long as you stay 1 generation behind.

I would recommend the following.  These prices are pulled off of newegg as of 30 Dec '24, if you are willing to wait & save money, most of this can be picked up off of Aliexpress (cheaper, but it ships from China, it will take a week or two, unless it comes from one of their USA warehouses:

0.  Keep your computer case - the ones today are overpriced & lack features like drive sleds.  Don't get me started on RGB.

1.  CPU - intel i5 12400f - this is the budget king right now - outperforms the AMD equivalent (Ryzen 5 5600x), and is less than $100.

2.  Motherboard - any ATX sized B760 motherboard.  These can be had for under $100.

3.  Ram - 32gb (2x16gb) DDR4 or DDR5 (depending on the MB) kit. $100.

4.  NVMe Drive - a 1tb drive is around $60.  I would recommend staying with a Gen 3.0 drive.  You won't see a performance difference between Gen 3.0 - 4.0 - or 5.0.  They are just more expensive.

5.  GPU.  Here we are kinda hosed.  The Optix render engine Nvidia only on Poser.  This means that you will be paying through the nose for performance.  The good news is that unlike that other 3d program, you can use multiple Nvidia GPUs, if your MB supports it.

What you will be looking for is how much Vram is on your card.  Consider 12gb being the minimum, if your time has any value.  That means your are looking at an RTX 2060 (12gb) - $200 on the used market, an RTX 3060 (12gb) - $280 new, $225 used, an RTX 4060ti (16gb) $500 used, $800 new, or an RTX 4070 (12gb) $510 new.  The price distortions on the 4060ti are based on the card no longer being in production, and it is really good if you are using Stable Diffusion for creating images.

Unfortunately, AMD & Intel cards are not an option.  Whereas there is a open source Cycles plug in for most 3d applications that AMD cards can use, Poser isn't one of the programs that can use it.  It would be real nice if the Poser development team would look into that, since then it wouldn't matter which card we chose.

6.  PSU - get a new PSU - look for an 80+ Bronze in the neighborhood of 750 watts.  There are a LOT of names you won't recognize, but most PSUs are made in the same factories & different companies put their label on them.  I'd recommend the Corsair CX 750.  It does the job, gives you some headroom & it is around $65.

7. I would recommend having a separate SSD for your assets.  This depends on how large your digital asset collection is.  A 1tb SATA drive is about $45. 

Now, if you are a 3d digital data hoarder (like me), there is additional option.........

7a.  Athena Power BP-15287SAC - this is an 8 bay sata enclosure that slips into a 5.25" bay in your computer case.  It will hold 8 SATA drives, and it sells between $65 - $70.  If it isn't $65, give it a week or two, it is constantly going on and off sale.

7b.   An 8 port PCIe SATA card ($50) - this will connect with BP-15287SAC.  They will come with SATA cables, just make sure that none of them are 90 degree angled connectors.

With these 2 items, you can stuff up to 64tb of SATA drives in a single 5.25" bay, and you should be good.  I have eight 2tb SATA drives (16tb total) in mine (DS 1, DS2, Poser 1, Poser 2, Stable Diffusion 1, Stable Diffusion 2, Games 1, Games 2)

@ssgbryan

Wow, that's a hell of a research you have put into.
Thanks a lot, this is really helpful indeed.

So far, it seems we are on the same page for the GPU and RAM.
I have an RTX 3060 12 GB on my list and a set of 32 GB DDR 3 RAM is also in there.
This has to be changed to DDR 3 or later if I would make the decision to buy a new MB.

Funny you mentioned the Casing. I would never allow this beauty to be exchanged for one of those blinking aquariums.
I want a computer on my desk, not a night light.

My system has currently the storage capacity of 4 TB, Two SSD's with 1 TB and one external HD with 2 TB. That's enough storage space for my stuff.
I don't like to have too much stuff laying around, unused for ages and eventually thrown away anyways.
I have a decent sized backup place and I keep my system as clean as possible.
Every three month I replace the OS completely, that keeps things fast and working.

So, you gave me quite a bit of homework to do.
I will keep your advice in mind when I decide what to purchase.

Thanks again, greetings from Germany and a good start into 2025 to all of you.

BB

Something to remember when shopping parts for a custom build is beware of counterfeit and fraudulent parts. Half the SSD's on Amazon are fake. "16 TB SSD for $19.95" Not reality.

nerd posted at 2:06 PM Tue, 31 December 2024 - #4492515

Something to remember when shopping parts for a custom build is beware of counterfeit and fraudulent parts. Half the SSD's on Amazon are fake. "16 TB SSD for $19.95" Not reality.

Yeah, we have seen the same thing on Aliexpress.  If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Honestly I think that they 13600K I5 is the best Intel CPU value wise.

It has more cores and threads over the 12400. Not to mention raw speed.

While the 12400 looks good on paper at first, but it really isn't a great deal if you have a few more bucks to spend.

Speed wise between the 12400 and the 13600K, there is a massive difference. The 13600K is about twice as fast multi core, and faster in single core, running at 5 ghz. The 13600 will also game at 4k where the 12400 will struggle, if it can at all.

For a little bit more money, you can have a vastly superior cpu that doesn't break the bank, doesn't require crazy coolers, etc.. 

The 12400 doesn't have a thread detector either, and that now affects Windows 10 up, speeds, on everything running in the system no matter what anyone claims. The 12 gen is slower, at everything, just from that alone.. Newer versions of the Linux kernel expect a thread detector as well. 12th gen doesn't have any of the Intel vPro or the new speed step features in the cpu either....

Spend a few more bucks, and get way more processor.....

$peed co$t$ money. How fa$t do you want to go. - Ancient hot rodder saying.

20-40 bucks more for a massively faster processor, wont break anyone's bank.