With the recent hastag challenge survey in mind, I find the way you publicize and promote contests confusing. You have a Contests page ( https://www.renderosity.com/contests  ), a Contest Announcements forum ( https://www.renderosity.com/forums/12369/contest-announcements ), and a Challenge Arena thread ( https://www.renderosity.com/forums/12372/challenge-arena ).

To me a contest and a challenge, both things where you upload a picture for a chance of winning a prize, are more or less the same thing.

But you also open threads for new contests in the Community Centre forum 

(sorry, using my idiotphone and accidentaly posted before I'd finished)

(continuation of first post)

Having multiple threads in different forums to announce a contest can cause confusion when people start posting replies - that's why forum admins merge duplicate threads isn't it ?

And rather than two separate forums why not a single "Contests and Challenges" forum, with threads for open contests being pinned?

Also, rather than having to dig down into Community/Forums or Community/Contests why.not have a direct link to a main Contests+Challenges page from the site homepage and from the main site menu ? A button with a trophy icon would be cute

Contests are done in the contest modules. They are very formal, and strict on the rules. It takes me a considerable amount of time to build an official contest - usually a month or more to do all the artwork, coordination, advertising, rules, and wrestling a budget for prizes from the Renderosity Dragon that guards our treasure hoard.

Challenges, on the other hand, are done in the forums. They are less formal, and less strict on the rules. They don't require nearly as much time to create, can be impromptu, and though there are semi-formal challenges created by Renderosity and Moderated by Renderosity in the Challenge Forum, they can be created in any forum by any member, and moderated by the member creating the challenge. We get occasional challenges of this nature throughout the year. The only time the Mods would interfere is if a TOS occurs.

If you want to create a challenge, you can even notify a Mod for assistance in pinning your challenge to the top of the forum, or removing inappropriate comments.

To make a long story short, they are two different beasts.

The only exception to the ease of doing a Challenge would be when I put a mega-challenge in place, like the Summer Carnival. That beast took two months to prepare and wrestle to the ground. Trivia fact: When I was creating the backdrop for the marble counting game, well... I'm no engineer and the bricks collapsed, crushing the original jars. I'm still finding marbles on the back porch.

P.S. We can't merge threads, we can only move threads. Every thread has a unique id. This thread is 2990486. Merging a thread would be a nightmare, it would mess up the perma-link (used for the newsletter and advertising), and create a bunch of broken links. This happens when we copy-paste a thread instead of moving it.

P.S.S. On the flip side of all that, yes, we need to be more careful with contest announcement announcements - those are often our weak point when something changes and I can't find all the announcements to make the change. The reason there are often so many announcements is that people turn off all the forums they aren't interested in, and never see any announcement, and then later ask me why I didn't announce the contest or challenge. Which means, I have to post the announcement all over the place to reach everyone.

It's a big beast to wrestle with.

(continuation of first post)

Having multiple threads in different forums to announce a contest can cause confusion when people start posting replies - that's why forum admins merge duplicate threads isn't it ?

And rather than two separate forums why not a single "Contests and Challenges" forum, with threads for open contests being pinned?

Also, rather than having to dig down into Community/Forums or Community/Contests why.not have a direct link to a main Contests+Challenges page from the site homepage and from the main site menu ? A button with a trophy icon would be cute

Thank you for that feedback. I agree that we can do a better job at communicating and publicizing contests and challenges. I like your idea about  a main page for contests and challenges. I will get with our developers on  a link. In 2025, we plan to introduce some hashtag challenges that will take place in the galleries. The use of hashtags (#) will help tie the entries together, making it easier for members to find and explore them. This approach will also hopefully encourage more engagement by driving members to view, comment on, and participate in the challenges, creating a more vibrant and interactive community experience. 

Point taken about the Contest/Challenge difference on the admin side.

I recently clicked on links for a specific contest from both a thread and a newsletter and both took me to the "Oops no open contests" page - I know other people have done this too. A link from here to the Challenge Arena (or if you take up my suggestion the Contests AndChallenges) thread with the text "But tere may be other challenges open" may be a good idea

I agree, it's a good idea. I'll put it on the list for the developer to look at.

I just noticed that the promised reward points for completing the survey haven't appeared yet...

No problem, I just submitted a report to look into it.

I just noticed that the promised reward points for completing the survey haven't appeared yet...

No problem, thank you.

Regarding that "Oops" page, I got it again, this time when checking whether voting was still open. To me this has a very negative feel to it - I think you could do without he big exclamation mark and "Sorry!"  And a direct link to the All Contests page wouldn't go amiss. I know I could easily have just changed the filter and let the page relosd, but the big Exclamation mark had already done it's job of irritating me ;0)

Another couple of  suggestion, this time regarding voting.

I've always found the voting period to be dead space - it's easy to lose interest and forget about the contest. 

With community voting the number of votes each entry has received is never given (insert your favourite conspiracy theory here as to why, if you're of that ilk). It can be disheartening if you've put a lot of effort into an entry but have no idea whether you just missed winning or whether you got zero votes. I think you need to show the results.

But why stop there. Maybe during voting you could have the number of votes each image had received so far displayed ?  I wonder how that would affect engagement ? 

I'm never going to post a list that shows who got zero votes. That would be a mind-crushing cruelty and complete lack of common sense on my part. However, if you really want to know how many votes you got, anyone can sitemail me, and I'll tell them their number of votes privately.

Point taken, although we can agree to differ on that.

I know that in the past I've entered contests  where you could see how well (or badly) each entry was doing as votes came in over several days. The associated threads were rather lively and entertaining...

...or maybe it was all a dream ?

Anyway, I started this thread because I'd fotgotten (sorry about yhe spelling - idiotphone + forgetting my glasses you know) to put a couple of things on my survey reply. I was hoping that maybe a few others would join in ?

3dcheapskate posted at 10:35 PM Tue, 7 January 2025 - #4492671

Another couple of  suggestion, this time regarding voting.

I've always found the voting period to be dead space - it's easy to lose interest and forget about the contest. 

With community voting the number of votes each entry has received is never given (insert your favourite conspiracy theory here as to why, if you're of that ilk). It can be disheartening if you've put a lot of effort into an entry but have no idea whether you just missed winning or whether you got zero votes. I think you need to show the results.

But why stop there. Maybe during voting you could have the number of votes each image had received so far displayed ?  I wonder how that would affect engagement ? 

The suggestion to display if a user received zero votes is the single most idiotic thing that I have ever seen in any forum anywhere, because not only would you create an unimaginably degrading and disheartening situation for any such user but by displaying the number of votes received also directly allows other users to see who received zero votes. In a community anywhere and especially a gradually diminishing one that is largely comprised of willing hobbyists and amateurs, to actively display for all to see "who got the least" is a certain way to kill of any future participation and instead directly encourages elitism and "gatekeeping" mentality.

Deliberately cutting the time allowed for people to actively enter and vote would serve the same purpose of discouraging those with limited time from entering such events, for the most part I would imagine, or possibly just like to imagine, that the only people who would not vote are those not actively involved in the contest, though I imagine this could be incorrect.

Gradually this would cut away many of the artists who have limited time and/or resources, and artists who potentially already realise they are "behind the curve" but no community should ever and I mean Ever! encourage such a moronically selfish notion that a hard truth won't do any harm because I forewarn you that it would kill off anything far before anything else, including AI, ever would.

In a world where software and hardware is moving faster than the budgets that many have for what is a hobby, to encourage an environment that actively targets the meek under the guise of being a form of "encouragement" is an utterly disgraceful suggestion.

I'm delighted that my 'idiotic' suggestion prompted such a response. 

P.S.I wasn't dreaming when I recalled a forum where the votes were displayed as they came,  but I was slightly mistaken. It was the monthly challenges at RDNa - but it wasn't the votes for entries, it was the votes for which of five possible challenges would be run that month.

As Wolfenshire and Peter_Pixy_Harrison borh clearly pointed out, the contests and challenges should encourage, not discourage, people from entering.

So how about challenges that actively encourage and help people to improve their skills ? For example you could have a challenge focussed on lighting and shadows. The main challenge thread could link to appropriate Poser and DAZ Studio lighting tutorials,  but it should also invite people to share their favourite approaches to dealing with light and shadow. 

Of course, this would then rely on people actively sharing their knowledge in the thread - but then thay's what this idea of community is all about, isn't it ?

The suggestion to encourage and help people improve their skills is an excellent suggestion, and exactly what staff has been discussing for 2025. We're looking at challenges that will focus more on style, skill, and techniques. The AOM's this year will not be looking to a specific gallery, but instead at best use of color, most engaging, most innovative use of technology, and so on. I'm not sure if we've posted it yet, if not, we will soon.

P.S. On a side note of moderation, let's not call each other's ideas idiotic, that's not productive. Present your counterargument in a constructive manner, and perhaps we'll arrive at a consensus that enhances the community.

Another couple of ideas whch I've  probably seen somewhere else. 

1) You pick any picture from your own gallery that's say about a year old, and create a new version of it using skills and techniques you've learnt over the intervening period. Original and updated pictures to be put side by side as a single image for your entry.

2) Create a picture based on a well known work of art.

3) The organizer posts an image containing just two very basic posed figures. The challenge is to build a scene around it, replacing the figures with ones of your own choosing but keeping the poses.

3dcheapskate posted at 12:12 AM Wed, 15 January 2025 - #4492844

Another couple of ideas whch I've  probably seen somewhere else. 

1) You pick any picture from your own gallery that's say about a year old, and create a new version of it using skills and techniques you've learnt over the intervening period. Original and updated pictures to be put side by side as a single image for your entry.

2) Create a picture based on a well known work of art.

3) The organizer posts an image containing just two very basic posed figures. The challenge is to build a scene around it, replacing the figures with ones of your own choosing but keeping the poses.

2. We've done this but with historic genre, the Classic Art Contest, it was well participated in, and I wouldn't mind doing it again.

3. This is an interesting idea, however, it could have problems with some of the regulations governing contests.

3dcheapskate posted at 6:17 PM Sun, 12 January 2025 - #4492798

As Wolfenshire and Peter_Pixy_Harrison borh clearly pointed out, the contests and challenges should encourage, not discourage, people from entering.

So how about challenges that actively encourage and help people to improve their skills ? For example you could have a challenge focussed on lighting and shadows. The main challenge thread could link to appropriate Poser and DAZ Studio lighting tutorials,  but it should also invite people to share their favourite approaches to dealing with light and shadow. 

Of course, this would then rely on people actively sharing their knowledge in the thread - but then thay's what this idea of community is all about, isn't it ?

The first (in particular with lighting contests) is setting an even playing field so to speak, some sites will simply give users a scene and all they have to do is light it, but of course this has a few potential problems, the scene firstly has to work with multiple users software and rendering engines, so off hand for example it would have to work with Iray for Daz, Cycles for Blender and is the new version of Poser cycles too? plus whatever other engines are used on site. Secondly you need a scene that people would want to light and of course the final downside is that for many a lighting test can be quite monotonous/tedious, personally I love lighting tests and I conduct them all the time for my scenes but many do not have the time that I do.

But do bear in mind that the basic premise of every image is to be making use of and exploiting lights and shadows.

Another that I quite like the idea of are the contests run by Kitbash, you are given one of their kits for entry (worth roughly $200) and just have to make a scene or animation using it, whether that means making an entire city or just using a single prop or piece from the kit is down to the entrant and of course you get said kit for free. Which I guess the problem with that is giving away a something to be used in a scene as a prize irrespective of whether a user places or not and by the same mechanism, whether a user even enters and image or not. Kitbash do these competitions in the long run to sell subscriptions to the cargo downloader, though how many subscribers the really gain could govern the feasibility of an equivalent on here. 

I would imagine uptake could be a stumbling point too as at first this may be low and if a competition doesn't really draw a crowd would it be run again? probably not but that said if something was run, even if that was through forums before deciding if it was worth elevation to main page status then it might bring a few onboard, though slowly. However of course it would rely on both word of mouth as such and of course a moderator or moderators to regulate it, so another potential stumbling block but a potentially good option if it could draw a crowd and potentially new users/artists to the site. But as Wolf stated, this depends upon the regulations allowed for the contests too.

The problem generally with contests is that you have staples throughout the year, Easter, Christmas and/or Thanksgiving, Halloween, the Pin-Up thing etc, all of which take time (six weeks at rough guesstimate?) so this limits free space to run alternative contests and entering contests one after the other can be tedious too as well as time consuming but that is not to say this doesn't make them worth running for a longer term gain.

Lights/Textures/Camera's in that order, cycled and worked on continually to develop and evolve, irrespective of whatever software you use.

P.S would love to see a historic contest run, would also be unusual to see one run somewhere.