You're very welcome. I've got a few images which may be useful. They show examples of wing design, a cat skeleton (look at the shoulder blade position) and a fox's foot. See how the fox stands on its pads and the claws poke out (a cat is similar, but retractable....push on your cats 'palm' and see what happens..the claws spring out!). Also, if your wonderful dragon is a predator, then its eyes may need to be a little larger (I like their expression, just a little larger). Keep up the good work

Handy refs. Thanks for posting...

Here is the fox foot.

And here is the cat skeleton. See the shoulder blade. If a functional dragon were to have wings, they would need to NOT interfere with the shoulder blades. Hope these are useful. Regards

That's right. That's why my dragon's wings start just after the should blades end. Of course, I think if dragons were real, thier wings would be part of their actual arms and not seperate as they are commonly interpreted. Thanks again.

Great stuff!

WOW thanks this is extremly helpful ! hope you stick araound !

cool this is very helpful thanks there is a sketch at this url of dragon muscles http://www.anim8or.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001664.html i was modeling a dragon from scratch more fictional than science its still wip and figured out using reference would have been mutch more easier

You're all welcome. I'm new to 3D modelling (actually, I'm a herpetologist, conservationist etc etc). I've taught anatomy/biology for years and love functional morphology (the way animals are designed etc). If I can help out with ref material/advice feel free to e-mail me ecoarena@iprimus.com.au It's the little things that make a difference and I am frequently disappointed by movies where the idea of telling a good story is ruined simply because of lack of research. Also, I'm sure you guys will have lots of great advice for me when I need it!!! Happy Modelling Happy

Sorry, my name isn't happy, I just typed it twice by accident. Thanks mad_s for the female model torso and advice. ecoarena

Some interesting stuff here, eco - can think of lots of modellers who might benefit - thx for addr. also. one minor point - if you place a sheet of matt black cartridge (drawing) paper behind the page you're scanning from, you'll lose the text on the reverse side - make good info even clearer! No idea what s/w you're using but if you're just starting out, and want to try something very intuitive (sub-division surfaces modeller - ideal for organic/natural projects) give wings3d a try - nothing to lose, - it's open source (free) still being actively developed, but already a very accomplished piece of work. Forum very active and most people would be very appreciative of your sort of expertise. wings3d.com - pp

Thanks ppaul, Firstly, for the advice re scanning! And I shall check out wings3d.com At the moment, I'm toying with Cinema4D and also FormZ. Hope to talk to you soon. eco

You're welcome,eco, - both excellent bits of s/w there, and would be complemented by my suggestion, rather than being made redundant or anything stupid like that! It's just that the workflow with SDS modellers is really totally different to 'normal' 3d apps ( -I've also got Rhino + others) and you'll wonder why you 'struggled' with the traditional methods - for the types of models that sds is good at making / producing. wings also imports/exports 3ds,Obj and Ndo files so you should be able to get the best of everything? Only cause for complaint I've got is lack of talent! btw - to install wings you need to d/l Erlang (about 23Mb) first - if you're on a dial up (like me) with time cut-off, don't worry, it's cumulative, so if link breaks can pickup from where left off - this 23Mb is a once only install, app. is about 890k, so only need to d/l this each time there's an upgade - presently about once a week or so Checkout the forum first (link on wings site), and see what you think - no-ones twisting arms here? In case you're wondering, no, I've not got shares in it! (although together with many other people, am contributing a little to its development, where possible) pp

Hey guys, just in case you're interested. I was browsing the latest "3DWorld" magazine (well, Nov issue here in Australia). There is an article touching on dragon wings, wrt membrane structure and optimal design for animating. Hope this is useful. Eco