is it just me, or is the creativity in the Poser Gallery dawdling? i frequently go through and browse, and i download all the ones i think are especially good. on "good," i rate based on a couple things: technical skill (which is least important), emotion/message in the image, and creativity. I've noticed that of late, the creativity and the feeling have been sucked out of many images. these days, many artists simply go to the marketplace, download/buy characters and props, and then arrange them in the scene with predefined poses, which are again either bought or downloaded. now i ask: where is the creativity in that? now i understand many artists on Renderosity are new, or that their skills are not up to par with those who have been using the program for a while now. i am actually one of these. however, it starts to get to me when i see the same recycled poses, often with the same props and characters as well. i take one look at those, label them 'test renders' and move on. now i'm not saying let's do away with posting test renders, or even creating a separate gallery for them; contrary, i would like to keep those test renders in the main Poser gallery for everyone to respond to. however, my challenge to all the artists here is to create something with feeling. next time you have a pose in mind, maybe do it yourself. create something that has a special meaning, not just 'trying something on for size.' and by all means, please feel free to respond to this message and let me know what you think!

I consider myself a very creative person. I'm still learning some of the basics of Poser. Lighting and Posing are probably the things that bedevil and confuse me the most. I just can't figure how to setup my own lights. So yes, I download light sets, and use some that come with other things I've obtained. I use "canned poses," because it is so much easier. I find it hard sometimes to envsion just what someone's body would look like sitting, kneeling, running, etc. So I use a "canned pose." Poser is a program that allows people to do things they might not have been able to do before. I'm a "decent artist," but I can't draw people very well. I have the same problems with clothes, etc. But I can look at the elements someone else created and put them together to do something that speaks for my own creative spirit. Yes, sometimes I get lazy, and just have someone sitting or standing in a nice "set." But sometimes that looks good by itself. Yes, I do some nudes because it's easier than trying to fit clothes on some characters. It's easier than picking out the clothes when I'm a basic simple male. Sometimes I do nudes because I'm lazy, and a "typical male." I'm working more on the concept of conveying emotion, expressing a thought, etc. Many of these images will be rather simple. A character, a closeup perhaps, with no "set or background." Poser doesn't take away our creativity. It gives us the freedom to express our talents. Some folks will never use a character, set or prop that came from someone else. These people make everything themselves. They can do that. Others like myself will likely never feel capable of making something from scratch. But we hope to put together an image that will have its own expression and creativity.

Red, if you look through the gallery in toto, I think youll find that Renderosity moves in waves, like everything else. Right now, the "temple" prop is a hot one, as is Mike 2, so we re seeing a ton of stuff using both of them. Before that it was the MilKids. Before that it was Vicky 2 (oh, wait, that bimbo never disappears... mea culpa...). We re like crows, fascinated by the latest bright and shiny toy. And theres nothing wrong with that. As much as I poke fun at the "Naked Chick in a Temple" images that permeate the galleries at the moment, I also know that within a couple of weeks, itll be something else, and that fad will have changed. Now, insofar as what beginning artists do... we re all at the mercy of our talents. Like you, like everyone else here, I started using the canned stuff until I got adventuresome enough to start making my own textures (I aint touching modelling; I know my limits and much as I would like to I dont think Ill ever figure out this "making clothing" stuff.) and my own poses. Im discovering my niche is in facial expressions and lighting, but Im also finding my skills increasing in actual body poses as well. And all that came from studying the canned stuff and playing with it. Building a pose is tough work, so you start with the essentials and then nove on to more complex stuff. If you like, think of it like learning to cook. Everyone begins with the basic: boiling water. Then you learn how to make easy stuff thats fun to share, like sugar cookies. Not everyone becomes an Iron Chef, and some of us have to settle for just being okay with turning out stuff that wont make one sick after dinner. But we all use the same ingredients; we just learn to handle them at our individual speeds. So consider those constant streams of "NCIAT" images as Renderosity Sugar Cookies. =)

Well, I actually agree with a lot of what you say here. I own quite a few items from Daz and Renderosity, but find that I have little interest in using many of them because EVERYONE uses them. Vicki's changing fantasy armor, gladiator, etc.. I tend to use only tiny bits and pieces from each set to create my own looks. I have ACTIVELY avoided buying some items because I have seen them so many times I would feel as if I couldn't POSSIBLY think of anything new to do with them. (I love Xurge's body jewels, but I can't bring myself to buy them because they are everywhere. Steffy-Z's textures are quite nice, but I am tired of looking at Asia, etc.)

Lately I have been on a Poser World Fairy Woods craze, particularly with older P4 clothing, because people don't use them much in the galleries these days. While I don't like it when people say that using Poser isn't art, I still don't think that plopping Vicki in the middle of temple and tossing a clothing set, MAP-pak, and canned pose on her is very difficult. The problem is, I recognize a lot of it. Oh look.. a Schlabber pose in the middle of a temple made by Marforno and textured by that poor guy whose gaming company screwed him over, wearing a complete suit from Daz and a texture from Steffy-Z.. lighting by Blackhearted. So, what did YOU the artist do to make this piece your own? Did you do post work? Make your own bump maps? Add your own reflection maps? Alter the broken parts of a canned pose? (Floating women, high-heeled naked feet, rotation?)

These items are VERY useful; don't get me wrong. I admire artists who can create gorgeous items and make money at doing it, and it makes it MUCH MUCH easier for me to create pieces of my own. I deeply appreciate people like Schlabber and Marforno and Cin and the people at 3D-cc and Lourdes and so many others that I can't even begin to list, for providing me with some lovely raw materials to work with.. but I consider them just that. RAW MATERIALS. Unless I do something original in a piece, I feel like a cheat. I try very hard to express something of my own in each piece I do, even SpaceGirl, which is essentially a pin-up.

While some may argue that the process of choosing pieces (lighting, map-paks, characters, etc) is an art all its' own, and I do somewhat agree, I personally feel compelled to try to add my own touch to my work. Some of the pieces I see that are entirely the products of "canned" pieces from Daz, Renderosity, BBay, etc are very beautiful, but working that way isn't for me.

I am not trashing anyone's work. Everyone has their own style and ways of working, and I don't consider myself a great artist by any means. I create art that speaks to me; whether it speaks to anyone else doesn't concern me, but if it does, that's fantastic.

Anyway, I've gone on long enough. Those are just my opinions, and as I said, if you are someone who does work with "canned" stuff 99% of the time it doesn't mean I think you aren't an artist. It's just not my way.

i think my point may not have been entirely clear. although pieces of it have been understood, i am not trying to say anyone here is not an artist. however, i do think that most artists i seen in the Poser gallery (i do not know the status of the other galleries, because i don't have time to frequent them) are repeating; as i said, recycled material.

furthermore, i am in know way insulting the talents of beginning artists. actually, the point i was trying to make is that while they are often lacking in the visual punch that artists with higher time and financial budgets, but they do have much more of the feeling in them, as well as purpose.

let me give an example off the top of my head:
an artist i have been impressed with, and a fan of for a long time is Jennifer Morris. Her art frequents the Poser Gallery, and there are few of her images i haven't saved into a folder dedicated to her own work. however, if you look at her renders, they are often the same lighting. the same pose. the same background, etc. now don't get me wrong- i love her work- it is some of the most visually stunning work i've seen online. however, my eyes are the only thing that jump up and down with excitement. my mind and heart are left wondering "that's it?" and she's not the only one.

on the other hand, an artist i have been continuously intrigued and impressed by is Preston Bottyan, or better known as 'kracker.' in his work, i am not only impressed by the look of it, though not as complex as Morris', but it strikes me in the mind, and in the heart. in my opinion, this is what matters most.

finally: i have nothing against downloaded and purchased items. no one is any less of an artist for using them. in fact, i have a few of them. however, it is in how they are used that lends the creativity. working in 3d is more like photography than anything else: you find objects/models, arrange them, light them, and then take a picture. however, even photography has the capability to be expressive.

the last thing i want is to offend anyone. i just wish to pose my views, and get the opions of other artists on Renderosity. please, don't let this discussion end!

Well, I suppose its a matter of style. Look at Norman Rockwell: most of his Saturday Evening Post covers are the same POV, the same lighting, the same framing devices. Leyendeckers SEP covers are even more rigidly formatted.

...i do not know the status of the other galleries, because i don't have time to frequent them...

Trust me, that is a big mistake. ;)

"...i do not know the status of the other galleries, because i don't have time to frequent them... " Browse with the "All" galleries option. That way you get to see everything, good and bad.

I think this time of year there are a lot of people who just got Poser, or had time to get into it over the holidays, so you're probably seeing a higher percentage of early efforts. As folks get more experienced, they get more critical and demanding of their work and the quality improves. Haven't you ever looked at those first pictures you were so proud of and laughed, or groaned?

I think this is a good point, often times the "greats" in the Hot 20 have found a style that works for them and so they keep doing it - after all if they change it they might not get teh same reactions. I never make the HOT 20, and I always try to change my "style" (probably why I never make it there lol) But then again think about great artists, Renoir was a student of Monet and so many of his paintings mimic his mentor's... Botticelli had his own style as did all the greats, you can tell their images or those images inspired by them pretty quickly.

As Gryffnn says: lots of people will have just gotten Poser 4, Vickie 2, Mike 2... quite a glut of attractive new products, and they're learning. Either they're complete Poser newbies, or they're new to the models. As you've noted, there's a 'dearth' of originality: this may be due to many people downloading and studying the work of the masters, who will be quicker to get to grips with the complexities of the new models and keen to convert their textures. :) Personally, I do most of my poses entirely from scratch, and I can't remember the last time I didn't modify a downloaded texture. I can't model and I don't own a modeling app, so none of my own clothes, but I do my own texture maps almost always. Experienced folks' files have been invaluable study aids to me: I'm an amateur, and I learn by the generosity of people who post their work and their tutorials. I don't tend to post my work, but that doesn't mean there's not a gazillion 'canned' poses, lighting, textures, &C in the old external HD. I don't mind seeing a few 'unoriginal' pieces, especiallyas is normally the case with such images the creator is looking for feedback. Not all of us can't afford art degrees; we need to learn the good old fashioned way: Asking People Who Know. This is a great place for doing just that.

I usually visit the Poser Gallery for a few minutes each day. I like to visit the 1st few pages of the New Submissions. I try to leave a nice comment on each picture that I view. If for some reason I'm not thrilled, or don't like the picture, I say nothing! I don't bother to download other people's art. I never go back and look at the same pictures again. I'm usually to busy either doing my own creations, or spending time with my wife.

why is anyone "downloading" art?

Lots of people keep collections of art for inspiration. I don't personally do that, but I have a friend who has gigs worth on CD; he has been collecting for 15 years.

For me? Wallpaper images and images for my slideshow screensaver collection. That way I have something to look at besides my stuff.

Ah, I use my own personal favorites of my stuff - to challenge me to do better, if I used some of the great stuff here I'd throw my computer out a window and never do it again!

Hrmmm... if I look at my own stuff long enough, I begin to detest it because I can see every flaw, everything I "should" have done in an image the 1st time, etc. After awhile... I get where I don't do anymore images cause I get depressed. I keep a collection of images on CD like kieraw's friend, and move ones that have a particular style, technique or "look" I'm trying to capture to the screensaver folder on my secondary workstation... that way I can watch them cycle while I work. That folder currently has a large selection of Royo's B&W, pencil and pen and ink sketches, because I'm working on my sketching techniques in painter 5 right now...

But I want to see the flaws in my images so I can try my best to get better and not make that mistake again. When I look at others work too long I just give up that I won't get that good. So I just try to best myself, not to hard at this stage lol

Each their own. I just tend to work a bit different. When I want to dissect one of my images to see what I need to change, I tend to bring up my gallery here, or bring up an image in ACDC on this system and use it for refference when I work. I learned long ago that I never get an image to "finished"... I just get it to "don't mess with it any more Barnes, or you'll screw it up" stage. ;]

lol that's all I ever hope for...

Thank you all..I enjoyed reading your comments. Such passion! This is what we need to create good art. Maybe someday I will be able to do it on my own and not right out of the box ;) Still learning and I hope it stays an on going learning process.

I download all kinds of art. My current desktop is a fantastic oil painting that GhostOfMacbeth did (with his kind permission I might add!). I just love looking at it. I never use them for anything but personal enjoyment. Nothing wrong with that in my book. And I too have literally gigs of various artists on CD and on my HD. As far as the art in the galleries....I beat that dead horse already in C&D (Bear made me!!)....so I ain't goin there again for a little while. heh ;o)

Try looking in the mixed media gallery, theres some wonderful stuff there, one that springs to mind is Hobbit, he uses poser with bryce and ps, and I personally love his Art. it is art with a capital A

Heh. I only post stills to the gallery because making them amused me. I get tired of the grind of making game models on a schedule and like sometimes to 'just play' with my tools. I like pretty and/or funny things, and methinks my gallery renders reflect that trend. I'm not out to impress anyone, just to share things that brought me some joy creating. I know my "Country Cousins" render isn't technical wizardry, though every pose is an original one and I made the 'country girl's' clothing myself. I guess if I treated those renders like they were auditions for a job they wouldn't be fun any longer. :-) Cheers! Mark