Okay now....seriously folks....in light of Doc Legume's pink pony pics...hey, I know they were meant as a joke...a statement...and I know it got tiresome too, and I really do think some folks took it way too far...BUT....listen...this morning my kid come rushing in the room as I was perusing the pony pics and I gotta tell you, she now has each and every one of those pink ponies "printed" and lovin' them like crazy!! So what does this tell me?? There IS a HUGE market out there for children's ART....something that is seldom, if at all touched on here. Everyone is so focused on the more mature stuff, the kiddy stuff is all but forgotten. Maybe it IS time for a kids gallery??? Seriously...all jesting aside here....and what a great way to start....with Legume's pictures...they would be GREAT as a starting point....categorize them into a children's gallery where they will make smiles on kids faces and possibly clients who will eat this up as well....I think this kind of gallery would be a bonus here in a professional and respected manner if taken seriously and not as just a means to defrock the top twenty best artists. This DOES have a role here...if it didn't...my daughter wouldn't be smiling ear to ear right now at Legume's pink ponies. Barbie...Barney, Teletubbies...Polkaroo...all those cool kids things had to start somewhere...they even do have magic ponies too and pokemons came from an idea too....why not let this kids gallery be so...?? Think about it please....art is not just for big people. Cheers.

I think the idea has a definate ring to it. My daughter is spending the weekend by her cousins' house, but I'm gonna load the MPP images when she gets home, and see her response to them. Hell, she's 11 years old, and I think it would be WONDERFUL to even try to teach her a little poser and photoshop so she can try it herself. I think you're onto something here Rad, maybe by the hands of Legume, but the idea DEFINATELY has merit to it. I know I'd MUCH rather my daughter be sitting in her room at her computer creating something on the lines of MPP, and enjoying what she's doing, and getting a LOT of self esteem from it rather than surfing, and maybe finding out about chatrooms and the such on the web. Summer is just around the corner, and we've got 5 computers in the house, 3 of which I use, 1 for hubby, and 1 for daughter... I think I'll format one of mine, get hers all ready, and when friends of hers come over this summer, I think I just might have to start teaching poser and photoshop to the neighborhood kiddies. What a refreshing jolt that will be, if all goes as planned. I'm really serious when I say I'm totally excited about the idea of having kids over to visit with my child, and enjoying watching them CREATE from their own imagination. I think a childs imagination is probably the most creative of us all. Ok, now I can't wait till she gets home this afternoon to see her response :) Thanks Rad, and Legume for the wonderful concepts!! Deb

I agree completely with the idea of a childrens gallery. I have a folder on my hard drive where I put pictures for the kids to see. When they were younger I didnt like them coming here in particular because of the adult nature of many of the pictures here but there are a lot of pictures posted here that kids love. A gallery here with pictures for and by kids would be FANTASTIC!!

I think a children's gallery is a great idea.

I totally agree, a children's gallery is an excellent idea and hope and wish to not remain just as an idea ... Thanks RadArt! :-)

I think the idea of a children's gallery is an excellent one and would hopefully allow something good to come of something that has truly become awful and created division in the community to the degree that many of us are thinking of leaving. Since the MMP appeals to children and also to those with childlike behavior (witness the C&D fiasco), it seems the time for that type of gallery has come. Then the C&D people would have a place to go to see what they view as art, our children would have a place to go to view art and those of us who prefer to see and create more mature imagery could get on with our lives here at R'osity rather than at some other venue where the C&D crowd isn't prevalent.

I was going to set up a childrens web site a couple of years ago Radart. But everyone told me that 3Dprograms were too hard for kids to use. So I shelved it. As far as a kids Gallery here goes. How would we do that? It would be way to easy for them to see things that aren't appropriet for them here. I'd love to see a Renderosity sister site just for kids. Kind of like Renderotica was for adult content. I'd volunteer my time to it as well. I usually create things that kids like anyway like dinosaurs,Godzilla stuff, cartoon characters,etc. I just don't see how we could pull it off here and keep them kids safe. ScottA

Would it be possible to set up a "children's membership" option? Like the way we can now chose not to see nudity in the gallery, but have a membership setup so children can only access certain areas. As opposed to being able to access everything, but with filters in place, which is the way the nudity tag works. A sister site might be the ideal solution, but by definition it would be difficult to make that pay for itself: a children's marketplace wouldn't be an option, would it? I do think it's a good idea.

Interesting idea eirian. I know kids draw. And parents could scan images and put them into a gallery. But do you think there are enough kids who can use 3Dprograms out there to make this thing work? I know this doesn't have to be about 3D art. But that's what I've always wanted to see. 3D art created by 5-15 year old kids. My idea for a childrens gallery centered around a virtual refrigerator where kids hung their drawings. Sounded kind of cute to me. ScottA

I've seen...not a lot, but often enough that I remember, R'osity users posting something and noting that the image is by their son/daughter when asking for comments. And many of our adult members might enjoy creating artwork intended for young eyes - not just the (in)famous pink pony, but some of our fairy artists and so on. It's not a theme I visit often, but I do. I used to work for an ISP that provided a "walled garden" as parental control for users: essentially a login account that allowed you to access only content that had been screened and deemed suitable for children. If a similar system is workable here, I believe there would be support for it.

Why make something like this purely 3D or Digital.. Why not an 'Art' site regardless of media used. How many of us here started from a traditional background? Many I would think. I agree with this statement by ScottA "I'd love to see a Renderosity sister site just for kids. Kind of like Renderotica was for adult content. I'd volunteer my time to it as well."

I didn't mean to imply that I wanted it to be a Digital only medium Helen. I'd like to see all mediums too. What I meant was: You don't see many 3D doodles by young kids. Basically because the software is too hard for them to use, I guess. But It's something I'd like to see. I've been pondering for years how to pioneer a way for 5 yr. old kids to be able to make 3D art instead of drawing with crayons. But by all means......those crayons should have a gallery too. ScottA

This is an image done by my grandson when he was 5. He had been watching me work in Vue and wanted to know how to do that, so I sat down with him, showed him how to work things and this is what he came up with. Sure it's not fancy, but for a 5 year old's first attempt, it's pretty darn good, IMO (of course, Nana here could just be a little biased *g*). I think a kid's gallery would be an excellent addition to the site.

I am 45yr's old, "Gay" and an old fart ! Inspite of these drawbacks, I agree with most of the sentiments above. I would be very pleased to create images suitable for such a gallery, and in a roundabout way, for myself. Even better ! the imput of digital work from kids could bring a refreshing vigour to the , sometimes, moribund efforts of us old folk! The strange thing about MPP, to me, was the way that the Ego of the artist, was subsumed by the intrinsic charm of the works themselves. 1 vote, for a kids gallery.

OK......well that brings up this ugly issue of what would be allowed to put in a children's gallery. I've been a moderator here for a very long time. And a member for years before that. I can safely say that some people will try to post nude(or semi-nude) images and then say it's not offensive to my child. Or it's OK because it's "art". If there were VERY strict rules about nudity stating that ONLY fully clothed (non-sexual clothing like nighties, etc.) images will be allowed. Would it still be a good idea? Basically what I'm saying is. Whoever runs this. Would have complete control over what is and isn't allowed. And there will be absolutely NO discussion or fighting about it. PERIOD CAN YOU HANDLE THAT? I HAVE MY DOUBTS. This gallery would need to be distgustingly safe and cute ;-) I'm not convinced that this can be pulled off here. Considering how many people we have here who like to keep pushing the rules in the name of "art". Before you say..."sure no problem". I'd like everyone to think about it for a while. We've had enough controversy here to last us a three lifetimes. And I can assure you that someone will get pissed off if we don't allow thier image to be posted in a gallery as pure as a children's gallery. Please be honest about this. And have pitty on this poor old mod. who's tired of forcing people to behave themselves. ScottA

Think about this, creating a gallery and trying to draw children to this site will create a whole host of problems, some potentially legal. This is not a site for children. Creating a gallery for children won't change that, and potentially exposes children to the rest of the imagery in the galleries. I don't we're going to be able to create this new gallery. I agree, it's a great idea, but just not workable as I see it. Just my opinion though. Not my decision to make. Russell

I see and agree with your points scott. I would go along with the idea, of a statement of intent for the gallery. If it is made clear at the outset, that the gallery is a selection of submissions area, and that the moderators word is final on the subject, then it is implicit, that if you submit, then, you submit ! As a professional painter, who submits to open exhibitions on a frequent basis, this is a well understood procedure. Within Renderosity, this gallery would need such stricture, for the sake of all involved.

I don't see any reason why it couldn't be stated at the onset that nudes were OFF LIMITS in a children's gallery and strictly enforce that. For those who would whine and cry about "but it's ART" I would have to point out that 1 - it's not CHILDREN'S art and 2- there is the whole REST of the site for them to play in. You don't find ads for breast enlargement cream in HiLights magazine you shouldn't expect to be allowed to post nudes in a children's art gallery either. And anyone who can't understand that is just totally stupid, IN MY HONEST (but not humble) OPINION. Kate the opinionated and still slightly cranky

Well, we already have our regularly scheduled debates about alleged "virtual child porn" (well, we used to...). Bringing kids to any section of the site can only lead to more problems. In one corner, someone accused of being a pedophile, in the other, this same person posting work, even harmless stuff, in the children's gallery? Do you really believe that someone wouldn't be calling the feds, saying Renderosity is helping child molesters lure in children? It's a nice dream, but it would never work. Not here, not with this many members, not with Renderosity being as prominent a site as it is in the computer arts community. You know as well as I do how ugly things have gotten with no actual real-life children involved. Having kids anywhere on the site would heat things up to the melting point.

I don't think opening Renderosity up for free roam to children would be a good idea. More like a Gallery that parents can show there children. A place where parents can upload there childrens works and post there own works that are done for children. Maybe set it up off the front page like the members Gallery is.

I have to agree with rcook on this one. This is not a site for children and I'm sure if one looked they'd find art sites that cater to children, but opening it up on here where the possibility exists is only leaving Renderosity open for legal trouble. I think a new gallery for children would be a great idea on a separate site, but given the nature of the community and the art, such a gallery would have to be policed like a hawk, as well as the other galleries to make sure kids didn't enter to avoid legal snafoos and people who are easily swayed to yell "child molestation" at every image. Also there are varying degrees of parental tolerance toward images. What one parent might consider good for his children, another may be totally appalled. Such also applies to the children themselves.

If you want your kids to see pictures you deem are good for them to see or what they are interested in, put them on your own personal drive and let them peruse that. Only you know what tolerance level your children has for a particular image.

Just my 2 cents...

Ok, I don't think anyone here is actually suggesting that we attempt to DRAW children to the site. BUT, I don't see what harm could come from providing a place where parents could download images to show their children or upload images their children have made. For one thing, it would be clear that these were images for and/or by children so you wouldn't get all the "it looks like something that belongs on a refrigerator" or "that doesn't belong here, it's too juvenile" comments that would be found in the regular galleries. And to be honest with you, I really can't see any parent on this site allowing their pre-schooler to cruise here unattended. At least, none of the parents I know who are members here would do that.

I know of a few children as young as thirteen, with galleries on the site. As it stands, there are no clear guidelines, that I can find, about a lower age limit for posting or viewing. A dedicated Kids gallery, with no links to the other galleries is better than the current situation. If I was a parent ! the extra time spent vetting the postings before I could let my child join me in viewing, would be a restricting element, reducing the spontaneity of a visit to Renderosity and the quality time that I was able to give my child, in viewing the work posted here.

KTS,
I agree with you if this was a perfect world. I wouldn't want the young'uns to peruse this site without supervision either. But it's not what you or I or a responsible parent would do. Certainly pre-schoolers are easier to manage, but when were we talking about pre-schoolers only? When they get older, some (not at our house) have internet access in their rooms. How do you think predators find these kids online? It's certainly not because parents are monitoring their access 24/7. I'm not saying that any one of Renderosity's 75,000 members are such people, before I get everybody's feathers ruffled. What I'm saying is that the simplest misunderstanding or misstep on what is deemed for kids, can turn into a whirlwind of accusations and legal problems. That is something that has to be weighed by an administration when deciding on these things. It's not what you and I would do, but what a community would do at large. And heck, look at all the accusations that fly in the adult part, now imagine what comes later. I'm sure someone could misconstrue the MPP as being not for kids (especially after the Mr. Fluffer drink and smoking pic), depending on how people look at things.

Also, there would have to be a responsible moderator put in charge to weed out what he/she would consider offensive images, but even that could be a gray area. Put up a picture of a mech warrior which in most circles isn't any different than Transformers, but for some parents, it could be considered violent and unsuitable for their child.

Let's not underestimate the ingenuity of children. I know a 9 year old that understands computers probably better than most folk. They know how to get to their sites and they would ultimately want to visit the site when the parent is not around, and please don't tell me that responsible parents wouldn't let it happen. In the real world, it's going to happen. Kids are sneaky and parents many times can't spend time with them 24/7 to make sure they are not up to no good.

I do agree on how much easier it would be to sort through the pictures to get ones to show the kiddies, but unless it was a fully separated site (with new passwords, etc) so that the link wasn't possible, then you're going to have trouble at some point when someone's feathers do get ruffled. I've yet to see a site that originally started as a site for adults, successfully implement a kids area without getting into hot water with overzealous parents.

Shadow, I understand what you're saying and I know you understand what I've said. And I realize that kids are cruising this place both unattended by their parents and without the knowledge of the admins (it's a simple matter to lie on the member creation screen). I'm also realistic enough to know that no matter WHAT you do, how you try to set it up, even if it's a separate site, there are going to be problems and complaints from some dissatisfied faction (your example of the mech warriors is an excellent case in point - the "anti violence" faction is not going to like that). Now, I just want to make sure we're perfectly clear on one thing. I'm not asking the administration to allow the kids access to the site. I'm just suggesting that a gallery dedicated to this type of artwork be made available for the CURRENT membership. If Mom thinks little suzy's picture of a house and rainbow should be posted, then Mom should have somewhere to post that where everyone can ooh and aah about little suzy's potential, etc, without inviting the "it's too simplistic, too lacking in finesse, not photoreal enough" critiques that it would get in the regular galleries. It would also provide other parents with a place where they can download pics for their kids' desktop wallpapers, etc. I agree that it is NOT a good idea to invite the kids themselves into this place, not at all. I just think it would be nice to have some place where I could, for example, post my grandson's image (the one posted above as an example) without catching any of the more venomous fallout you get in the regular galleries at times or where I could post images that his mother could download to show him without the hassle of trying to get it through her aol e-fail account. Yes, I realize I could do this on my own website, but not everyone has a personal site for this sort of thing. so, the bottom line of what I'm suggesting is: 1. Give us a place where we can post more child oriented artwork without causing disruption to the regular galleries, thereby insuring a minimum of negative commentary. 2. Don't change the membership requirements. It's not necessary. I think the benefits of this would be fairly obvious. First, it would minimize the chance of something like the MPP happening again, secondly, it would provide a showcase for some very talented artists who, up to this point, have refrained from posting for fear of being ridiculed for the subject matter/style, and third, it would attract those adults who actually enjoy viewing and/or creating that type of art.

ShadowWind is correct. Renderosity can't do anything to encourage young people to come here for legal reasons. I WAS interested in drawing in the kids Kate. I've always thought that would be fun. But we can't have anything like that due to legal issues. I'm still not going to give up on this idea. I just don't know where I can go with it at this time. ScottA

If this was a family oriented site, if there were no R or X rated images here, I would agree that it would be fun to attract younger members. But, since that's not wise for both practical and legal reasons, I can understand the lack of support for this idea. I still think there's a way to accomplish something of this nature without endangering anyone on either side. We just haven't found it yet. :)

Your idea for a gallery for children safe pictures is a reasonable one Kate. When things calm down a bit here. Maybe we can do something about it. Hmmm. My gallery is basically a childs place (full of dinos and Godzilla stuff). Maybe I'll just post everyone's pictures in my own gallery for ya. ;-) ScottA

heh..at least you're still THINKING :)

Damn...wish I had seen this idea sooner. My daughter Gia is also enraptured by the Magical Pink Pony images. She actually caught me by surprise with her enjoyment of it. I happened to click on one of Legume's images and she just went nuts for it. ;o) I printed them out too for her to look at when she wants. I also agree that this can't be done at R'osity. It would be way too much of a legal debacle. But that isn't to say that we can't still make the images and post them in a single gallery to print out for each of our kids. Or even create a site that is devoted to just children's art. I just love the whole idea.

I came into this forum for the first time today. My eyes lit when I saw this thread. I'm working "on a dream" to illustrate my book of Children's Poetry, using Poser. It's difficult for me, since I've never done this before, and I'm no longer with the very children who inspired the book of poetry. I thought "wow I could have a place to feature this work so it wouldn't get lost amongst and the nude vicky in the temple pictures." Yes, I see the logic and legalities that threaten this idea. I still feel sad. Is there a place that I can go to feature my Children's art, if I finally come up with something really great enough to share?! I mean someplace safe where children can easily visit?! Ron

Im a little late on this thread, but... Here's my two cents....: I am not a parent, as I am a gay male myself, but I would think that all of the parents here at R'sity could get together and "host" a site like you all are speaking of. I have my own personal site that costs about $14.00 a month (I believe) after the initial set up fees. With the number of parent members this could be "divided," if necessary for those who don't have a lot of money. I agree that this sort of "site" should be offered, and I understand why it can't really be done here (feasibly). So, instead of beating heads against a wall about how to try to get one here, I don't see the difficulty in getting together and making one. Im sure that one or more parents could "volunteer" to create the actual site, maintain it and get it up and running.. Like I said, I'm not a parent, but I have nieces and nephews that I'd like to "protect" from a lot of the images located here... If anyone wants info on the host I use (not an adult oriented host) I'd be more than happy to send info to any interested party. I sincerely hope that this can get off the ground... -Lee

I'd love to use Bondware to do this. But I don't know if that's legally possible. I think it is. But I'm not sure. The problem is the cost. And where the funds will come from. ScottA

One thing that kills so many of us is Bandwidth. I've watched how so many fine artists struggle to give away free stuff. So many people use "free web site hosts" because they can't afford to pay for a host. Heck, they're giving away something for free! The free web site hosts dump the artists who use too much bandwidth. If an artist has a paid web site host, sometimes they get these huge bills because they've exceed their allotted bandwidth. I don't think any of us "regular folks" could afford to pay for something that is liable to be that popular.

Attached Link: http://aplus.net/services/hosting-basic.html

Okay... My web host is aplus.net, and here's a summary of the 500MB, UNLIMITED bandwith plan: "Affordable Web Hosting Plans & Prices Aplus.NetTM is the industry leader in Affordable Web hosting solutions. Our state-of-the-art data center and world-class network of OC48 and OC12 access offer the best Web hosting technology available. If you are looking to create a Website, Aplus.NetTM has the perfect Web hosting solution for your needs. Plan Prices Solo II MOST POPULAR BEST BUY $9.95 Per Month $40.00 Setup $0 Setup on Annual Plan 500MB Web space Unlimited Web traffic 5 email accounts Unlimited email forwarding and auto responders CGI Online Statistics Image Maps 24 X 7 technical support" There is an "upgraded" plan for $14.95 a month that includes FrontPage support... Again... I hope this helps someone... -Lee