Prologue - I posted a shorter version of this in the "tech forum" but I am posting it here, also, in the hope that it will help you "sort out" some of the problems associated with Poser "names." cheers, dr geep ;=] ------------------------------------------------------------ ***** Poser Naming Conventions ***** Poser keeps track of Figures (and props) with numbers appended to the object's name. ************************************************************ For figures, it's Figure 1, Figure 2, etc. For props, it's prop_1 (the first one loaded), prop_2, etc. [the above only applies if the same (with identical name) prop is loaded twice - or more] ************************************************************ Poser actually has two names for figures and props, et al. An INTERNAL name (IN) and an EXTERNAL name (EN). [there are actually three names when the library is included] ************************************************************ INTERNAL NAME The "internal name" [from object "properties"] is the name that is attached to, and saved with, the figure or prop when they are stored in the library. This is a name that you can change using the (menu) "Object" ----> "Properties" "Name:". This may [or may not] be the same name that you use when you save the object (i.e., "save as") and you assign a name. The "save as" name (SN) is the name that appears under the thumbnail in the library. The "IN" will come back with the object when it is loaded from the library. In other words, the "IN" [in the file being loaded] becomes the "EN" when a figure or prop is loaded from the library. ************************************************************ EXTERNAL NAME The "external name" [from object "properties"] is the name that is displayed on the screen (e.g., Figure 1, etc) while Poser is running -and- can be changed "on the fly." If this object is exported, the exported file will contain both the "IN" and the "EN" [which may or may not be the same]. Note: the IN and EN will be the same when you do the export unless you have changed the EN while Poser is running. ************************************************************ SUMMARY There are three (3) names associated with a figures or props. (i.e., object) 1. (EN) EXTERNAL NAME [shown on the screen] 2. (IN) INTERNAL NAME [attached and saved with the object] 3. (SN) "SAVED AS" NAME [shown under the thumbnail in library] The SN is the "filename" for the object that was saved. All three names MAY be the same. [but they are NOT linked, i.e., if you change one, it does NOT automatically change either one of the other two names] FOR CHARACTERS Poser will generate a .cr2 AND .rsr with the same name as the SN. [2 files] FOR PROPS Poser will generate a .pp2 AND .rsr with the same name as the SN. [2 files] Other libraries are the same except for the file extension used. Examples: Hair will be .hr2 and .rsr [2 files] Lights will be .lt2 and .rsr [2 files] Hands will be .hd2 and .rsr [2 files] Faces will be .fc2 and .rsr [2 files] Cameras will be .cm2 and .rsr [2 files] Poses will be .pz2 and .rsr [2 files] DO NOT confuse .pz2 (pose) files with .pz3 (complete) files. A .pz3 file contains ALL the information used when you load Poser, i.e., figures, poses, cameras, lights, props, etc. Note: the .xx2 file is a text file that can be modified with a word procesor. [at your own risk!] The .rsr is a binary file that is created from the .xx2 text file with the same filename. Poser actually uses the binary (.rsr) because it loads much faster. CAUTION: ..... If you modify a .xx2 file, make sure you DELETE the .rsr file with the same filename before you try and use the modified .xx2 file. Poser will only CREATE a NEW .rsr file if the file DOES NOT EXIST! So, if you modified a .xx2 file and DID NOT DELETE the corresponding .rsr file, you will NOT see the changes when you load the .xx2 file because Poser will just use the old (unchanged) .rsr file. ************************************************************ How I do it: Before I save a figure in the library, I change the "EN" like this ...... (menu) "Object" ----> "Properties" "Name:" --->"Susan" (EN) Now I do a "save as" ----> "Susan" (SN) When I load "Susan" (SN) from the library, the name that appears under the studio window is [you guessed it ... "Susan" (IN-->EN) ... and NOT "Figure 1"] so that I can load "Susan", and "Harry", and "Mike", and "Vickey", and ....... well, you get the idea. ************************************************************ Whew, I'm writing a book here! I didn't mean to go this long but that's how much space it takes me to explain it. I hope this information will help you sort things out. cheers, dr geep ;=]

WOW thanks Dr Geep, this is one of the most valuable postes I have ever read. Now I can rename all my figures, and be able to find them in the dropdown Current Figure menu, without having to remember which number relates to which character, this could also be useful when using a lot of magnets. If you feel like writing a tut on the relationship between CR2 and OJB files and how to consolidate CR2 character into an object, please feel free ;)

Re: CR2 and OBJ files ... That I probably can't answer. ;=]

QUOTE: Note: the .xx2 file is a text file that can be modified with a word procesor. [at your own risk!] The .rsr is a binary file that is created from the .xx2 text file with the same filename. Poser actually uses the binary (.rsr) because it loads much faster. CAUTION: ..... If you modify a .xx2 file, make sure you DELETE the .rsr file with the same filename before you try and use the modified .xx2 file. Poser will only CREATE a NEW .rsr file if the file DOES NOT EXIST! So, if you modified a .xx2 file and DID NOT DELETE the corresponding .rsr file, you will NOT see the changes when you load the .xx2 file because Poser will just use the old (unchanged) .rsr file. UNQUOTE That's a bit confused. the .rsr files associated with .xx2 files DO NOT need to be deleted when the .xx2 file is changed. They contain the thumbnail picture associated with the item and nothing else. Poser won't recreate them if you delete them and doesn't give a hoot about them in general, just using them to show you a little thumbnail picture. However, there is a whole different file format which confusingly has the same extension (ie .rsr) used to store geometry information. Those are associated with .obj files (not .xx2 files) and everything you've said in the quoted passage above is true if you replace all the bits where you said ".xx2" with ".obj".

Dear Ajax, If that is true, why don't I see an .rsr file for EVERY .obj file in the "geometries" folder. You WILL find a corresponding .rsr file for every file in the "libraries," and if it's missing, all you see for a thumb is the "funny little guy," who will get replaced with a valid "thumb" when you "re-save" the item in question. cheers, dr geep <------------- (going back to look at more files) ;=] ;=]

IF ..............
... the .rsr file ONLY contains the thumbnail, then ...

why is the size of the thumbnail file saved as a .jpg
= 2.366KB

-and-

the size of the .rsr file from which the thumbnail was extracted
= 15.620KB

What is the other 13.254KB used for?

I can't believe that Poser requires THAT much overhead for it's library, ............. can you?

cheers,
dr geep <----------------(going back to play with 4 function calculator)
;=]

I can answer the question in #5. The OBJ files with no RSR partners have never been called by a Poser Librsry file. There is a lot of extra junk in geometries, especially if you have been collecting free stuff. There have been props and characters provided that have the geometry in the Library file and also have an associated OBJ file that is redundant. (unless you use it as morph stock, and maybe not for this, if the Library file contains a geometry that was imported with Poser scale and position defaults.)

2 things: First Ajax is right! It's only when you modify .obj in geometries dir that you will have to delete it's corresponding .rsr file! That would for example happen, if you modify the geometry in UVMapper... With Poser4, until the .obj is actually reference at least once, there won't be a .rsr file to go with it!(Unless it was already supplied!). second, i think that using proPack, it doesn't create .rsr for the .obj(Since, i don't have ProPack, i cannot confirm this). As for the .rsr(in the libraries), they are just "Thumbs"! With ProPack, they are replaced by .png files(probably to make it compatible with Macs???). And, since .rsr are basically .png files. It would explain the size differenc with a .jpg! JPGs are better at compression... Tada! Anik & Marco

Gee, I just caught up with this thread. Jaager and OpticalSingenoid have covered exaclty what I would have said and I won't bore everybody by repeating it. Thanks guys.

PS. I was just trying to help. Sorry, geep, if I was a bit brusque. I wasn't trying to be a smartarse.

I ain't buyin' it, and Ill tell you why. I used my "12 foot scale" prop (.pp2 and .rsr) for a test case. I used Yarp's "P3dOExplorer" to get the thumb. I copied the thumb to PSP and then saved it as: .jpg <------ see below .bmp .tif .png <------ see below .pcx [et al] The .png file size is exactly 9,179 bytes. (~9.2K) The .jpg file size is exactly 9,164 bytes. (~9.2K) The .rsr file size is exactly 13,254 bytes. (~13.3K) Can you tell me for what the other 4K bytes are used? cheers, dr geep <-------------------(still trying to "clear" calulator) ;=]

I can't tell you what the other 4k are used for (how big was the bmp? Did you try 32 bit .pct, which I think is supposed to be the closest format to .rsr thumbs?) but I can tell you that 15k is not big enough to contain any reasonable amount of geometry info no matter what format you compress it in. And I can tell you that you can edit the internal part of a pp2, cr2 or pz2 file as much as you want without deleting the thumbnail rsr and your changes will come through. I do it all the time. It's the mainstay of my products. On the other hand, when I modify obj files and forget to delete the .rsr then the changes don't come through. Maybe this experiment will convince you: Make a new library directory and fill it with a number of different props. Delete all the .rsr files from that directory. Take an unrelated .rsr from another directory and paste it into the new directory. Rename it to match the name of the first prop. Paste again and rename to match the second prop etc. Now test your props in Poser. They will all have the same thumb but all will continue to be the prop they originally were with no similarity to the thing the .rsr came from. You can also make new .rsr thumbs from 32 bit .pct files using the free utility "rsr converter". That's done with no reference whatsoever to any pp2, cr2 or pz2, yet they work just fine.

Why won't rsr converter use pct files from Painter 6? The only ones that work for me are from PSP 4.0. PP8 don't know from .PCT. I guess I could save it from Poser at 91x91 as a PCT, but I sometimes crop and add a background.

Dunno. I work in Photoshop 5.5. To get the transparency info right you have to invert the alpha chanel (from how it comes out of Poser) and save as 32 bit. 16 bit is no good. If you don't need transparency then P3DO is an easier option. It's just cut and paste, right into the rsr from any old paint program. Very cool. And it's a great program for organising your files too.

Well, the .pct = 22,202 bytes -and- the .bmp = 26,170 bytes. Now what?

I'd say the .rsr thumbnail format is a one off custom image format used by Metacreations. It has now been abandoned in favour of .png thumbs, which is why pro pack users create items that just have a .png and no .rsr (except for geometry .rsr files which, as I said, are actually a different format despite having the same extension). Did you try the experiment I suggested? I already know the result but I want you to be convinced.

Ajax,

Not yet .... but I will.
I've copied your instructions and will check it out.

Do you mean to tell me I've been lied to all these years?
sniff

cheers,
dr geep <-------------(heading back to "explorer" .... again)
;=]

I doubt you've been lied to exactly ;-) Because both formats have the same extension it's all too easy for two people to talk about .rsr files and be talking about completely different things. The original stuff you posted that I quoted is exaclty right if you're talking about the .rsr that goes with an .obj file and NOT the .rsr that goes with an .xx2

Making trouble again Geep!! Tsk! Tsk! Ajax is right! Poser uses it's own scheme or algorythm to save the thumbs... Try this one: Make your display window 800x600 then render your figure or prop. Now, save image & import back in, go to front camera, move your object out of the way. Now, save it to the library. Now, save the prop again, but, without the Background pic in your display. You should notice a difference in size between the 2 thumbs(meaning .rsr). At least, it does here! That should confirm Ajax's hypothesis about Poser using a different compression scheme(If any) in it's thumbs... That was Fun!! Let's do this again... Not!! Tada!! Anik <-----With her Big Bro close by... ;-)

Ok, ok. [tail between legs time] I did some more experiments ... and ... You're right! Dang Poser code has bit me again. I knew it was correct for GEO .rsr's but the library .rsr is nothing more than a pic. Thanks for setting me straight on that one. I wonder what surprizes P5 will have? Thanks for your input Ajax. ;=] cheers, dr geep ;=]

Cool. There was a thread about P5 a while back. They announced a few things including dynamic strand based hair and collision detection. It sounds like there are going to be some big changes. I should think they'll do away with rsrs (probably both types). The pro pack already uses png thumbs instead of rsr thumbs.