I'd like to suggest that a new general topic forum be created to replace Complaint And Debate and Current Events. The banner says "Graphic Artist's Community". If it's just a store now, change the banner. If not, then why shouldn't we have a general forum, a sort of virtual "Community Hall" or whatever? It doesn't have to be Complaint and Debate, but why shouldn't we be able to talk to fellow artists about more than art? These are the people I talk to in the Poser forum and the Bryce forum and etc. etc. We've always been able to before, why is it such a threat now? Because things get too loud and too wild? Fine. Create a new general topic forum, let me be the mod, and I guarantee you that it won't become another C&D. I know Ironbear, and Russ before him, did their best, but that sort of forum needs to be controlled more tightly. There were threads that weren't locked until they had gone far out of control, other threads that should have been locked after the very first post, and certain individuals that just should have been banned from the forum altogether, if not Renderosity itself. You don't have to burn the village to save it. This can work, especially if you start over with a new forum, one where tighter rules are in place from the beginning, instead of taking a "wild west" forum and trying to "civilize" it. Yes, I can go somewhere else, and I guess I'll have to. But I LIKE it here, I like these people (well, most of them...), and I hate seeing this happen, especially for such questionable reasons. As far as Chat goes, I'm just not a Chat person. I prefer forums. Just a personal prejudice. Anyway, that's how I feel. If this is now just a store, let's be honest and drop the "community" facade. And if not, then let's work out a way of having a general topic forum that doesn't resemble a war zone. It can work, and it DOES work at other sites, and it can work here. For whatever it may be worth, I officially volunteer to moderate this theoretical forum. I'm willing to put my money where my big mouth is. I'm willing to do my part for the good of the community. All I need to know is if the community actually exists anymore, or if that's all just a thing of the past, just an empty phrase on a banner... (This message has also been posted in the Forum News forum)

"Community Concerns". Start with a clean slate, and all that, with a definite set of guidelines right from the beginning. True, many already know most of them- the "unwritten rules"- but it doesn't hurt to "writ" them, for the newcomers. For instance, if a dispute comes up, remember to take on the argument, not the member. Try to come up with alternatives or solutions, not just vent. Things that most people know, but made plain for those who may not. I don't think this is "just a store", and say so because otherwise it implies certain things on the part of the people who work here. I'm sure that is not the intent. All it will take, I believe, is for the concerned members to show a willingness to take on a little responsibility as a whole. If you have a problem, first contact the person directly, and try to work it out. Give someone the benefit of the doubt before accusing or making incendiary statements. Treat others the way you want them to treat you. That sort of thing. I think this can be an opportunity, not a problem. That's my opinion.

I like the idea of a general discussion forum. I too came to this site for more than just the art and info I could get on it. I loved the C&D not for the stupid flame wars but for the friends that could be found there. That's what makes this place a community, nothing more.

If another forum, such as you describe, is created, it will strictly follow the TOS, as much as any of the topic forums do. Personal disputes would not be tolerated. That aside, it is a future possibility. Russell

I think he makes several good points. I don't agree about it just being a store, but it's easy to see how that can be decided when one views it from "outside". I realy think that this place would stand to benefit from listening to what alot of the people are currently saying. C&D, love it or hate it, was a part of this site to many. Unfortunately the actions of a few caused it's demise, and now even those who used it properly are having to suffer the consequences. I agree with x2000. I agree with Micheleh, and I agree with Dragontales. But above all, I agree with rcook. And having said that, I would also agree that x2000 would most likely, in fact, "put my money where my big mouth is." I believe THAT implicitly! Give it a shot. All that stands to be lost, were it to fail, is "another C&D", but for many, it could be viewed as Renderosity showing we're not above trusting them and this IS a community. My .02 -Mike

All I want is someplace where I can go to holler about how much I hate my mechanic or laugh at the latest nonsense on the T.V. or whatever without getting yelled at for being off topic. And before you tell me "well, there's always chat" you should know that there ISN'T always chat. Some days I can't get into chat at all and on MOST days it takes me three or four and sometimes as many as six tries before I can get past that stupid "Unable to contact host. Retrying" message. You have any idea what a pain it is to have to shut down the internet and then bring it back up repeatedly like that? Besides, in order to talk to all the people I'd like to talk to I'd have to sit in chat 24 hours a day because we're not all on at the same time, yanno? Please, give us a place where we can be "off topic" and where we can get away from all the "don't say anything that could possibly be considered negative" attitudes in the rest of the forums. Kate (who has some truly cranky days and really needs to be able to just go ARRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!! now and then)

"That aside, it is a future possibility." I'm nominating you for the "patience of a saint" award. ;] "C&D, love it or hate it, was a part of this site to many. Unfortunately the actions of a few caused it's demise, and now even those who used it properly are having to suffer the consequences." Yeah... this may sound funny, but when this happened, I was kind of thinking "what did I do? I was being good!" chuckle

I think it's a great idea :} Of course some one is likely to point out I would think that as I have been a periodic combatant in the old C and D :} However, I personally think the downfall of the old C and D was the fact it originally started as a free fire zone, right down to an enter at your own risk warning banner, and once that was set in, it was impossible to later rein it in and make the denizens there follow the TOS. Hopefully a new forum with a fresh slate, and an evenly applied TOS from the beginning, would avoid the nastiness, and maintain the good the C and D provided.

Well, yah, X-per, that's like, a given. You can't let it start out as a free for all. gotta lay down and ENFORCE the "ground rules" but I'll tell ya right now, I don't see that as a problem. I'd guess that upwards of 80% of the C&D regulars were well behaved most of the time anyhow. It's just a rowdy few (and the occasional tourist) who would lose control in there. And with definite rules and enforcement, that wouldn't happen. It would only take one or two trips to the time out chair for folks to realize they had to toe the line or hit the bricks.

I'd sure go for a new misc. discussion forum, with strictly applied rules right from the beginning. In its better days, C&D was a lot of fun for the regulars, all of whom managed for the most part to converse without the flame wars it finally degenerated into. I also don't do chat, and never will. My whole way of accessing, usually from work because that's where I have a dsl connection, is to pop in for 3-5 minutes or so whenever I have a little downtime, but as soon as something shows up in my inbox, I have to log out and go back to work. Under such circumstances, chat is simply NOT an option.