*** RENDER LOCK-UP ! *** -or- *** TOO MUCH RAM ? *** Note - For Windows98 users only. Does Poser lock up on you after a few renders and make you use the dreaded "alt+ctrl+del" to get out of it? I had that problem and this is how it got solved. I am running WIN98 2nd Ed. with 384 MB of RAM installed. (3 DIMMS x 128MB) Somewhere I read that WIN98 doesn't properly handle RAM in excess of 256MB. I have no way to prove this ... except ... when I removed 128MB (1 DIMM) of RAM, and rebooted, Poser no longer locks-up! Using the "System Monitor" and watching the "Unused Physical Memory" statistic, it appears that the "swap file" is used when available memory gets close to zero and uses the swap file. If the system has more than 256MB of RAM, Windows evidently can not keep track of Poser's software properly and "gets lost," hense the apparent "lock-up." This is only a guess, but it appears to work. Do you have TOO MUCH RAM? cheers, dr geep ;=]

I have heard too that Win98 can't handle RAM over 256 MB (actually, it has problems with memory over 640 K), and that Win98 is just poor at handling memory in general. Specifically, though Windows is supposed to be a multi-tasking environment, Win98 is awful at multi-tasking and leaks memory all the time.

I use Win98 with 384 MB, and I don't have too many lock up problems any more. Suggestions:

If your renders are big enough to use the swap file (mine are usually simple and don't need the swap file), make sure the drive on which your swap file exists has plenty of room. Win98 defaults to using drive C:, even if that is not the best drive to handle your virtual memory. You should custom-set your virtual memory settings. Ironically, when you try, you get several warning screens to the effect of "changing Windows settings could destroy your computer and the world," even though setting the settings yourself usually takes care of a lot of crash problems.

Never have any other program running while you're doing renders. Never.

While this may be more supersition than anything else, since I have no hard evidence to confirm its effectiveness, I think Win98 needs to have its memory occasionally "cleaned out" by closing down all programs periodically and starting them again. It seems that Win98 has trouble releasing memroy that it is no longer using. I think shutting down and restarting every now and then helps me.

This could be it, Geep... I have this problem (as I'm sure you're aware). Coincedentally I had no crashes until I bumped up from 256Meg to 768Meg... hadn't made the connection, though. But I'm pained to take out my new stick! (Phnurk!) Other Apps REALLY appreciate it! (Sometimes have Poser, Bryce, Amapi, Amorphium, UVMapper, Explorer, PhiBuilder, PSP and more running at once!) Maybe ""upgrading"" to XP is the answer?? Or 2000? Anybody know which windows is best at managing large RAM?

Oops... crossposted with bjbrown. Just to clarify that it doesn't make any difference to my "poser crash situation" how many apps I have running. Restart: fire Poser: load scene: render: crash! Can't wait to get home and whip out my stick! (Snurft!)

I'm getting ready to install a new 'puter (drool!) with 1GB of RAM and XP.

I'll let you know how it works.

BTW - It's a 1.9GHz uP!!! I'm gonna FLY!!!!!!!!!!!

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

512 mb is the upper limit for win98 and me!! And win 98 memoryhandling is poor. sometimes it can cause problems ,if you put ramsticks together that are not exact the same timing.And there are sticks on the market with very low quality. Since i changed from win98 to xp, i start my computer in the morning and end in the evening,without rebooting or anything like that.

Postscript: I agree with hogwarden, it does not "appear" to depend on the number of apps that are open. I have had 5 or 6 apps open at the same time including being online with R'osity and email. I did NOT like the idea of downgrading my RAM either, but ........ ...... if it makes it work, ...............??????? cheers, dr geep <---------------(no more reboots, no more reboots, YEA!!!) ;=]

I don't have Windows XP, what I have heard is that it does handle memory better, but has other problems that haven't been worked out yet, and might be worth the upgrade when some of the other problems are patched. I don't actually remember what the other problems included.

Yeah, maybe you're right.
I'll wait untill ALL the bugs are out of XP before I switch. ;=]

More snowballs anyone? ;=]

cheers,
dr geep <------------------(getting ready to throw warm snowball)
;=]

I have a 1Ghz Ath 133FSB, 512Mb SDram, win98SE. Poser4 with PPP Sr3 I have see this happen myself, pulling memory didn't help me. Disk cashing is set to server, windows assigned swap file. I found it happens to me if i do a bunch of quick renders one after another,(like when I an making a new character, and or making a very complex scene (20 or more figures and props with high res textures and more than 4 lights.) what I do is do what I'm doing and in the case of a character save it in the lib and as a PZ3. then reboot the system. Or in the case of a complex shot I do much the same except I render less and save more. also I found if I have a light selected and render a buch it will lock up more often,( I suspect it is the shadow map rendering that hangs it.) I have also poser poser in equal and lesser system running win2K , ME ans XP (home and pro) and found this effect to continue un-abated.

Hi, The only solution I can offer is to upgrade to an OS with better memory handling, I had the same problem myself with 98 and Me, and I got a reply from a guy who had 2Gb or RAM, and he was still having the same problem... so you have a choice of NT, W2K or XP, or change up to a mac :) later jb

... was THAT a low blow? ............... ;=]

Hi I had the same problems with Win98SE. I recently upgraded to xp pro and haven't had Poser hang up during a render since. I was able to render an animation that has 14 characters plus their clothing( 28 figures in all) and a full set, 110 frames at 640x480, anti alias, full lights and shadows... It rendered on using xp, but it took a little over 21 hours to finish. I was never able to get past about frame 50 when I was using Win98. Ed

XP, .................................. here I come! ;=]

I had the same problem with Win98....could never render anything other than the basics. I got XP a couple of months ago and have never had a freeze with it. I can add everything I want to the picture and render over and over again without a problem. Although I've heard the horror stories about XP I'm thankful I have it - just for Poser. It's been a delight to use now! :-) I do, however, check the Microsoft site for patches on a regular basis for XP ;-)

Thanks for the info and advise, rain. ;=]

I'm not sure what good waiting for them to fix the bugs in XP will do when we are still waiting for them to fix the bugs in 95, 98 ,98SE ,and ME.

Of course we could wait, and pay for, XPSE with even more bugs.
:)

... it costs 'em alot of money to produce 'em,
so, we shouldn't complain 'bout havin' ta pay fer usin' 'em, no? ;=]

XPSE? ..... Oh NOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Jeepers, I've used Windows XP Home Edition for months now. I've had no problems. I recently did a picture with the entire DAZ Mansion Great Room and all its props. That was the first time my computer started complaining about not having enough virtual memory. Windows XP said it would go ahead and fix the problem. Everything worked just fine. It didn't take hours to render either. You might want to make sure you defrag your hard drive, do routine maintenance, and that you have all the latest hardware and software updates.

Very good advice, Ron! ;=]

Here's my 2 pennies. I had a Athlon 1.2GHz machine with 512 MB of RAM running on Win98SE. Poser 4 locked up occasionally. Taking away 256 MB, and it locked up less frequently. A month ago I upgraded to an XP1800+, 1 GB of mem, and Window 2000 with service pack 2. I have yet to encounter any lock ups. Joey V

Yep. The same thing happened to me too. I'm also using win98 OSR2 and just added my memory from 256 to 512 MB. Before adding memory, I can abuse poser4 and it works just fine. After adding memory, my poser locks up even when before rendering (such as rotating, changing texture, changing pose dials, etc). I have a slow system btw (PII 450, Intel SE440BX2 Motherboard, 256 MB SDRAM).

Attached Link: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/default.asp

I'm going to sound like a computer snob, but I have to say this. Windows 98 is 3 years old. It's archaic by computer standards. There is a good reason Microsoft has come out with new operating systems. Windows XP is the next logical step for anyone who still has not upgraded. Of course you want to visit the Windows XP Home site and do your homework first. Ron

ive got windowz 98SE with 448mb ram and sumtimez when im renderin it goes wrong and i hav 2 press ctrl+alt+delete but this only happenz on average about once in 20 renderz

oh yeah about win XP i got a copy of it, installed it and yeah everything workz quicker, thing start up faster BUT my CD recordin software did not work and i had problemz with modem driverz aswell as other little thingz. my pc aint even that old. so in the end i un-installed XP coz i could not b arsed with it.

"There is a good reason Microsoft has come out with new operating systems." To make money!!! Sorry Ron, but that's how I feel. Up until now I have always been one of the first to upgrade. I have been disapointed every time. I won't buy XP until all the facts are in. I won't buy it until I think I need it, and I won't buy it because it's new. I know Eventually I will end up using it, but not for awhile yet. My system is running to good to muck it all up again.

Attached Link: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/upgrading/checkcompat.asp

I'm really sorry anyone has computer or operating system troubles. The first thing everyone should know is that your utilities (Norton SystemWorks, Norton Utilities, etc) will need to be replaced with new versions for any new operating system. Your CD-writer applications such as Adaptec (Roxio) Easy CD Creator will need to be replaced. You have a new operating system, and they need to make a whole new version of the software. I've included a link which should be the first stop for anyone who considers upgrading to Windows XP. You can use the Upgrade Advisor to have your computer checked to see if there are any hardware or software. Beyond that, there are Windows XP newsgroups that I've frequented in the past. Another step would be to visit the web sites of your hardware and sofware companies in seach of updates or upgrades. Once all this is done, then you can see whether it makes sense or is possible to upgrade. Ron

Thanks Ron that is a usefull link. I know you mean well.

But with all the hassles it takes to upgrade (and I speak from my own experiance). I would rather hit myself in the head with a hammer.

If/when I go to XP, it will be a clean install on a new system.

Understood. I had absolutely no hassles installing Windows XP on my computer. I've had the same computer now for a couple or three years. I lose track. I just backed up any important data, then wiped the hard drives. I installed Windows XP from scratch, with no problems.

Geep, I'm a closet "mac bigot" :) Whichever way you look at it, Apple simply build computers for creative types, if they didn't they would have all migrated by now. Besides which, you've already got the Mac version of poser anyway... Apparently XP doesn't play that nice with the SB live and Geforce2 cards unless you download the latest version for the unified drivers from creative and invidia, a colleage was having stability problems this week because of that. It should be mentioned that neither set of drivers, even from such industry heavyweights as these, are digitally signed by MS, so you'll have to click through the "stability" warning to install them... As for the release of XP, it all comes down to cold hard cash and rationalising your product line, you can grow your dominance far more easily if you have a single platform, (as opposed to two, Me & W2K...) MS is not known for, nor has it built a monopoly from, being altruistic. later jb

I, like man, had concerns about the way Microsoft has taken over the operating system market, etc. But one thing I can't help notice is that Mr & Mrs Bill Gates give away something like $30-40 Billion dollars a year for world wide health concerns. WOW. I think that makes them the biggest givers in the world. It's hard to ignore that!

Now here my other 2 pennies, Thoughts on Win XP. I have no problems with upgrading to a new OS, and I don't have a problem with Microsoft making money. I just don't wanna dish out $120 for an OS that will render my modem, and CDRW useless. Maybe when MS comes out with a "service pack" for all these fixes, I'll bite.

Aren't the manufacturers of your modem and CDRW responsible for producing updated drivers? That was my knowledge, at least. Sometimes the hardware manufacturers are months behind on their work in that regard.

I believe that Ron is correct.

If you are getting a new 'puter with s/w installed for the peripherals that come with the machine, no problem. [i hope] ;=]

But, if the user (i.e., you) independantly upgrade the operating system, it is the user's responsibility to insure system compatibility between h/w and s/w.

Think about it ... there is NO WAY that MS could go out to every vendor in every country in the world and test their new OS to insure "BACKWARD" compatibility. Why would they want to, anyway? THAT would seriously impede progress. IMVHO ;=]

It must be the user's responsibility to update the drivers for their own system. If the 3rd party vendors don't satisfy you with their support, buy somewhere else next time. It ain't a perfect world. ;=[

cheers,
dr geep <-------------------------------------------------(not compatible with anything?)
;=]

Well, that's why I live by the motto: "If it aint broke, why fix it" Thanx for all the comments. Yall are super!

One very big issue with the Windows 95 (and forward) operating systems was the issue of backward compatibility. From what I've read, Windows could have been a much better operating system years ago, if it were not for the mistaken notion that we had to have the ability to use our old archaic software and hardware. Just think of this. We could have had much more power, reliability and flexibility if we didn't need to keep throwbacks to the old DOS and Windows 3.1 days! Windows XP is the first major step away from that horrid legacy. Windows XP is a very significant step forward. I have what I consider to be a wimpy computer. My system came about partly due to my own choosing, and "circumstance" when I foolishly attempted to upgrade the BIOS on my old motherboard. My system: Intel Motherboard, Intel Celeron 550Mhz processor 512MB RAM 30GB and 20GB hard drives onboard AGP video (yech) onboard "network card" onboard sound card (disabled in favor of a Soundblaster Live) Hewlett Packard 7500+ CD Writer (already obsolete, but working fine) Acer 50X CD ROM (works sometimes!) HP Scanjet 3200C (HP has not made up their mind if they will fully support this scanner, but it seems to work for me) HP Deskjet 672C (obsolete!) We are networked, using a Linksys BEFSR41 router. In many ways, my system is wimpy, and nothing special. I had absolutely no problems installing Windows ME or Windows XP on this computer. I knew I'd need to upgrade some of my software before I could install it (Norton SystemWorks and Easy CD Creator). The hardware drivers were either available right off, or I found them soon after. One thing: Whenever possible, I try to stick with "brand name" parts that have been around for awhile, and look like they'll be around a few years more. I know some promising companies went out of business, or are suffering. Didn't that happen to the Voodoo people? That makes it hard for us. Ron