I like the exploded pixel effect. Nice pic, you can allmost feel the atmosphere. I have been to bullfight, ahh to be there again, well done. Tashar 59

Very nice, looks like a real painting. Sharen

I think the Matador should have the sticks in his back. What a dreadful way to treat an animal. IMHO bullfight is cruelty to animals and should be banned. Tradition or not it is just barbaric.

I agree with you Puntomaus, but it is a good pic and very nicely done.

Yeah, Groingrinder, my comment was not against the pic itself just what it shows. Man, is it difficult to explain in a foreign language :-).

You did very well, Friederike, and I agree with you 100%. It's a well-executed, painterly image, Virus. Please don't feel our comments are in any way directed against you. You did a fine job.

Now this is weird... Virus, I don't want to attack you, but you are complaining in the Forum News about a religious picture that offends you and other Christians and here you are showing an image (which is done good in itself, btw) of a living creature being tortured and killed in the end? I dunno, but this is against MY believes! And that is one of humanbeings should be protective towards any other living creature. I respect your own point of view, but that's a believe, this is reality you're portraying!!! Just made me wonder... I'm not here to attack your work! Personally this violated MY TOS!!! Finest regards, Johnnie...

I think the whole point here is the irony of just that very think, swannie. I personally don't like the idea of bullfighting either, but that's an entire different country where it happens, so they get to make their own laws. I deal with my dislike of bullfighting, by not watching it. ;) But, I would agree, this is a very vibrant picture and definitely within the realms of art proper.

(1) I like the picture. It's got a nice style and a certain energy that works well. (2) I don't like bullfighting. It's barbaric and cruel, and to dance around it by saying "Well, it's their country" is ignoring the cruelty and devoiding one's responsibility to the essential truth of the matter. We sure didn't say "well, it's their country" when we chose to get involved in the internal affairs of places like Germany in the late 1930s -- but because this involves cruelty towards animals, we just don't seem to care as much, do we? I was taken to a bullfight last year during a business trip to Spain, and it took every fibre of my being not to express my disgust. It's not sport. It's not art. It's not "a dance of life and death", as my host tried to gamely explain. It's killing an animal for entertainment, and no matter how you dress it up and pretend otherwise, that's what it all boils down to.

OK, you're right. Fuel up the bombers and let's hit Spain!

Mike, nice attempt at flippancy, but unless you have some rationale for why it's okay to kill an animal for entertainment, might I suggest thinking of something other than blindly ignoring it?

Well, I'm not the world's judge, for one thing. Now consider for a minute: I did say I was opposed to it, and obviously you are, too. For the exact same reasons, no doubt. But what could possibly be done about it? I personally have no choice other than to ignore it. In any event, what Virus did, undoutably intentionally, was to post a picture of something that alot of people would find to be controversial subject matter. My guess is he's hoping that those who are happy to defend satirical Christ pictures will jump up and down about bullfighting, and I'm not in the mood to get into it. Yes, I find the idea of bullfighting to be insidious, but as I said, I have no choice but to "live and let live". I don't have the energy or the resources to launch an anti-bullfighting campaign against the country of Spain. if you figfure out a way, let me know. I already regularly donate to the ASPCA, and I think they've been protesting it for years.

Thanks all for the nice comments about this picture, it was done from a 2D picture I took at the Plaza and aplied a lot of postwork with corel photopaint on it to get the desired effect, which was to make it look as a real painting thanks Sharen for your nice comments):)

On the other hand MikeJ: please keep your comments about a country you don't know, and I doubt you remotly know it as is Spain, For your Information not only in Spain are Bullfights, There is bullfights at France, Mexico, Colombia, Portugal and other Iberoameric Countries, I still don't get it why people of other countries can't leave us alone and don't try to interfiere with our way of being?. BTW I still don't find the relationship between this picture I made and the "satirical Christ pictures" guess you are complete wrong about that but oh well everyone put what they have in their pockets. Just another note for the Record. We don't have death penalty as other "civilized" countries have and that could be another theme of long controversy, but don't talk about a brutal use, when there is another countries which goverment don't respect the must elemental human right as the life. I don't want to be controversial over here, and I'm not in the mood of discuss this matter, so save your bullets and keep them for something that really worth it.

Say, how about those Sonics?

I still don't get it why people of other countries can't leave us alone and don't try to interfiere with our way of being? Oh gee, maybe it's because you're killing something just for entertainment? Gosh, could that perhaps have something to do with it? Sorry to be so passionate about this, but I cannot, for the life of me, comprehend how people could be so callous and cavalier about the death of an animal. (And yes, folks, I have the same feelings about sport hunting in the US.) Maybe that could be written off a couple of hundred years ago as ignorance and human pride, but now, in the 21st century, don't you think it just might be time to move a little beyond such a barbaric and needless practice? Heck, if this is okay, why stop here? Why not bring back the gladiatorial games and have guys fight to the death for your amusement? Maybe the victor could wear the ear of his victim there as well, right? Shoot, I can see an entirely new thrust to Nike's "just do it" ads. Not much difference, Virus, no matter how you dress it up and pretend otherwise. Now, if you can possibly explain to me the rationale behind this, I'm more than willing to listen. But you're gonna have to be damn persuasive and give me more than "well, that's just the way it is".

I don't give a shit in what country it is or not. It's cruelty to animals... a bull that is so furious it can't think straight. They fight an animal (I'm very much into animals and their anatomical possibilities) that can't move around so quickly to really be a match towards the matador. In fact, it's very cowardly to fight a bull, although that may sound weird. It could be compared to a matador thrown into the sea with a big white shark in it. That would be like the matador being the bull and the shark being the matador. The shark has got real weapons, is much quicker, the matador has only got his fist and can't move around properly. A bull can kill a humanbeing, but that's usually because of its strength, weight and not much more. A bull has to make a turn of almost 2 meters wide while the matador can spin around his/her own axis (sp) Fair? Not really!!! It seems so dangerous and all that, but it's more dangerous for the bull. Give the matador that same speer stick and instead of a bull, throw in a lion. Now THAT is what I would like to see... no cruelty intended towards humanbeings, mind you! But cruelty towards matadors, there's a difference!

"I still don't get it why people of other countries can't leave us alone and don't try to interfiere with our way of being?" --Adolf Hitler

Hey Virus, I apologize if I sounded like I was accusing you of anything, because I really thought you were trying to make a point here with that picture. I just chose Spain, because it seems to be where it originated from. Also I was just recently reading an article about Julian Lopez (El Juli), who is a famous bullfighter there. (Reader's Digest, February 2002) It's interesting, because after he got gored really badly (he's lucky he wasn't killed), in the hospital someone asked him if he would ever doing something else with his life. He answered, "If I could not fight bulls, my life would make no sense." It's statements like that which prove to me far more than other things, that there are alot of things about other cultures which I have absolutely no understanding of....

it was done from a 2D picture I took at the Plaza and aplied a lot of postwork with corel photopaint on it to get the desired effect, Perhaps this belongs in 2D Graphics forum instead, then? Why was it posted to Poser? ::scratching head::

ScottA shakes his head You all have detention! ;-)

Although Virus's picture has nothing to do with Poser, I guess he wanted to post it here to express his anger and disgust with us, and to get his revenge against Legume. If that's the case, he failed on both counts, and he's forgotten what this forum is about.

We don't have death penalty as other "civilized" countries have and that could be another theme of long controversy, .......................................................... Oh yeah, I didn't want to get started, but here goes. The death penalty is used to protect society from people who are themselves killers. It is not used for "sport". The only reason criminals persist is because the punishment is not severe enough to deter them from their crimes. I believe that we need to put alot more criminals to death. I believe that in the US we need a national law that says anyone who commits a crime with a gun automatically gets the death penalty and it is to be carried out within 30 days of their sentencing. Only after many criminals are executed will the message get across that society is not going to put up with their crimes. I am only advocating this for criminals who commit crimes with guns because someone who commits a crime with a gun is not rehab material as they have no respect for a human life and society should not have to support them for the rest of their natural lives in a prison. I know people are gonna jump on me about innocent people being put to death, but we now have the technology with dna and modern forensic techniques to insure that we get the right man. I would also make sure they never get to use Poser.