I have a simple prop -- let's say, a bar bell. Two plates parented to a shaft. I'm trying to make it into a smart prop parented to a figure's right hand. So:

I maneuver the barbell's shaft into the figure's right hand.
I parent the shaft to the hand.
I hit the + sign to add the prop to the Prop Library.
I get a dialogue box, give the prop a name, and select the subset of things (Shaft,LPlate,RPlate) to include in it. I hit okay. The prop is saved.

But I never get asked whether I want it to be a smart prop or not.

If I start over now, open a new file, add a figure, and then add my prop from the library -- it appears where the figure's right hand is, all right, but only if the figure is still in default position. If the figure has been posed at all first, the barbell will just appear in the air where the hand used to be in default position. And whether the figure's hand is there to receive it or not, it is not parented to the hand.

So is it a smart prop, or not? Is that as smart as smart props get? (If it is, I can live with it. But I thought they arrived parented, and that the receiving figure didn't have to be in default position to receive.)

So my questions are:

1. Why am I not getting the "Do you want to make this a smart prop?" question, which I know have seen sometimes when saving a prop in the past.

2. Have I in fact created a smart prop anyway? Are these the usual attributes of a smart prop?

3. If not, how do I get Poser to ask me the smart prop question so I can in fact save the prop as a smart prop?

Please help. Need sleep.

I don't know the answer, but I also noticed the "smart prop" prompt quit showing up about 2 weeks ago, as if that part of the software got corrupted somehow. I didn't notice any other problems, so I haven't reinstalled Poser yet.

Well, since I first wrote, I have seen the "smart prop prompt" again. If I accidentally try to save the non-parent part of the complex prop (i.e., Rplate in the example above), Poser sees that Rplate has a parent (the shaft) and asks if I want to make it a smart prop. But it still won't ask the smart prop question of a prop whose parent is part of a figure, and of course, it's almost always figures we want to smart prop to. (And I know perfectly well that people smart prop to them every day. And maybe I have, without the prompt. So . . . "smart prop prompt" has not completely vanished from the scene, but I'm still asking all my original questions.)

It's a Poser fault. You can't save more than one smart prop in a single prop file. AFAIK the only way to do it is to hack the pp2 file, which is what I do. In this case, the best approach for you would be to export the bar and the two plates as a single obj file, then import them again so they become a single object. Then you'll be able to set it up as a smart prop the normal way.

Thanks, Ajax, I'll try that. While we're on the subject, maybe you know something about this, too. Sometimes I can build props out of primitives with no problem at all within Poser, other times I'll parent one piece of the complex and the moment I parent it, it deforms wildly in shape until unparented again. Any idea what the problem is there? and the workaround? Thanks again.

Okay, I export it and imported again, and got a single object (which is worth doing for that sake, actually, thanks)-- but it doesn't solve the problem at all. Still no "Do you want to save as smart prop?" dialogue, and the saved prop only restores to the point in space where the figure's hand will be in the figure's default position. (Or is that all a smart prop would do anyway?)

If it's any help, running a disk repair program (Mac OS) causes the "smart prop prompt" to reappear. So maybe your copy of Poser is corrupt.

Thanks Nyarl. I'm using the Windows OS. I could certainly reinstall, but so far I want to eliminate the possibility it's my error, not the program's.

You aren't using the select subset button, are you? That will prevent the smart prop dialogue from popping up. And you did parent the prop to the figure after you imported it? Other than that, I don't know what could be going wrong. Not sure about the deformation thing, unless maybe the parent is scaled? I think that can confuse Poser because it isn't sure where to put the origin when it starts to convert the translation from the unparented version to the parented version.

Hmmmmm . . . Yes, I was using the select subset button.

And yes, the deforming did involve pieces that had been extensively scaled. Maybe I'll export and import them and see if I can wash off their original size before combining them.

Thanks for the good leads, I'll follow them up!

Just a final followup: my problem with creating a smart prop was indeed that I -- ahem! -- followed the manual and always used the "select subset" button, thereby surpressing the smart prop prompt. Thanks, Ajax!

Thanks also for your thoughts about the problem with parented props deforming. For most purposes, I can agglomerate the sub-props via exporting to .obj, no parenting needed, so at least I have a workaround.

But I encounter the problem all the time, whenever the sub-prop has been rotated, and since this would be a well-known and infamous problem if it were happening to everyone, I think I will try your advice, Nyar1athOtep, and do a clean reinstall, something I haven't done in years; maybe there is something corrupt in my version.

Heartfelt thanks to you both for jumping in so quickly to help me think about and solve these problems. It's great to have a community like this at Renderosity.

One more thing: There's a checkbox that says "bend with Parent" or something like that when you parent the prop to a figure part. Don't select it because that makes the prop subject to the joint parameters of the figure so it winds up bent and distorted.

Good idea, but I thought of it. That's not the problem.

Ajax, could you do this quick experiment for me?

New File:
Take a Cylinder from Props: Prop Types.

Increase Y scale to 200%. Decrease X and Z scale to 50%.

Add a second cylinder.

Widen cyl_2 to 150% x and z.
Shorten cyl_2 to 50% y.
Move cyl_2 up with a yTran of .060.

Apply a Z rotate to cyl_2 of 45 degrees.
Center it on the shaft with an X tran of .030.

Now go into the Object menu for cyl_2 and set cyl_1 as its parent. (Or do it with the Hierarchy Manager, doesn't matter.)

Does cyl_2 go crazy, or not?

If not, and if you also are running under Windows, then there's something wrong with my application, and I'll reinstall.

Anyone reading this and running Poser under Windows is welcome to try the same experiment. (What the heck, try the Mac version too.)

Thanks!

A few minutes later:

Setting up this experiment for you caused me to do a few more for myself. I finally absorbed what you were saying a few messages back, Ajax. This problem is a function of scaling the parent. What happens is that the child acquires the scaling of the parent when it is parented: the effect is much more noticeable and distortionary if the child is tilt-rotated.

Since you did mention this problem before, I'm thinking that it isn't peculiar to my version after all.

And it sounds like it can be worked around. If the parent has to be scaled, maybe exporting it and importing it before adding the child will reset its zeroes. I'll try it and report back.

Success! Exporting and importing the parent takes the curse off! I just hadn't realized the problem was in the parent. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Ajax.