I haven't been there in a while and so I decided to take a strole through to see what goodies await. What do I find but notices telling that an item can be used for non-commercial use only. In fact nearly half the stuff in freestuff is labelled for non-commercial use. Stuff that would probably never be used at all are labelled for non-commercial use. Things like facial MT arrangements, lights, material poses and even (get this) textures and material poses for commericially bought items that are allowed by the maker to be used in commercial stuff are marked for non-commercial use. Now how does that work? I buy Billy T's lingerie which I can use commercially but I can't use someone's freestuff material pose file on it cause its marked non-commercial use? How can a light setup be non-commercial? well I'm glad at least things are marked commercial and non-commercial. Makes discarding and walking past nearly 75% of the freestuff much easier. I hope those people doing non-commercial single renders get something out of the items especially things like faces and hand poses. God forbid those get used in a commercial product. Geez those alone could turn a piece of garbage into a multi million dollar pic.

"Non-commercial only" is simply the default setting for the newly-added field. Until every Free Stuff contributor goes in and manually edits his/her/its entries, some of the older items will be mislabeled. There's been one flaming thread on this subject already. Commercial vs. non-commercial is clearly a subject that invokes great passion among the members here.

The thing is with this, when they changed the system on freestuff everything was defaulted to non-commercial, and stand alone. Freestuff contributors have then had to go through and change all the settings themselves, because as it tells you, freestuff is kept on your own server, not r'osity's. Some people have not done this yet, the system is very new, and it does take time to do it, especially if you have offered a lot of items. There have been several threads concerning this already.

Oops sorry Little Dragon, cross posted there.

• waves merrily at chohole * By the way, Mason, I've been using your Morph Manager utility heavily in my character creation projects, and want to thank you for this helpful tool. On the off chance that I should someday create something for the Marketplace, does Morph Manager have any commercial restrictions? The legal disclaimer in the help file mentions redistribution of the utility itself, but nothing about figures created or modified with the utility. I ask because I recently noticed Maz's restrictions on the use of Objaction Mover.

Yes, mason, I agree with Little Dragon... I love your Morph Manager utility. In fact, I put it up there in my top 2 Poser helpers. Also, as Little Dragon mentioned there was a greatly heated debate among the reasons for Commercial restriction, beyond the obvious ones. I'm afraid I contributed too much to that thread. :)

I'll agree with one thing...Morph Manager is probably the most useful Poser helper application there is. Thanks very much for making it available to everyone. :) The rest is an tired argument that only infuriates Free Stuff providers and hurts feelings. You don't want an item because you can't use it in a commercial render? - good, save the bandwidth for those who still use Poser as a hobby. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

Really, don't want to dredge that argument up here, but I am a Free Stuff provider. I just don't want to have to sort it all out - Free versus non-Commercial. Its my personal choice and I'm happy to save others bandwidth. And I do not mean to hurt ANYONE's feelings...

Netherworks, I know and I appreciate all the nice free stuff items you've recently made available. Nothing personal, and I respect your and Mason's opinions on the matter. This whole thing just bothers me a lot more than it probably should though, and I'm reconsidering how I will make my future free items available from now on. Thanks, take care. SnowS

SnowSultan, Hey, I don't have hard feelings towards (nearly - some really do ask for it) anyone in these forums. I wish that everyone could be constructive and really try to act more like a fellowship of 3d artists -- even when we all don't agree. Lately I've made it a point to take it all in stride. In another forum, not so far away, I even said that after all is said and done its just coffee house chatter. :) ...And I really do appreciate your thankful replies at the commune, I should've mentioned that before. Those types of comments are what makes me want to freely give.

Little Dragon, since SFAIK a cr2 processed by Morph Manager is indistinguishable from one hacked by a text editor, it would hardly make sense for Mason to try and put restrictions on the resulting cr2 files. I echo the sentiments that MM is an invaluable resource, and I am extremely grateful to Mason for making it and making it available. Along with Mover and UVMapper, what would we do without it?

WOW!!! im a freestuff provider and merchant( BVH files)
and i missed that debate( thankfully!!)
any way i just edited my items to allow commercial use
in animation renders.

Just for the record, all of us hobbyist really appreciate the free stuff, comercial use or not. It's great that so many are willing to share their time and talent!

This discussion is already going on in at least 2 other threads, and the argument is heated. My understanding is that most Free Stuff providers have restrictions against commercial use. That's a good reason to keep the current default. Many Free Stuff Providers have already had enough of this and previous discussions. Do you want to lose Free Stuff? I have already edited all my Free Stuff items to fix the confusion over Stand Alone vs Add on Item. I won't go back and edit my items again. If this debate keeps up I'll seriously consider removing all my stuff from the Free Stuff section. Others probably already have, and might.

Buh bye.

Forums are going to have debates over issues... it always has and always will be that way. Just keep a cool head. Why cry and pull your items because others don't agree with you? That's very childish.

I would if I were you Ron. Do what a few others are going to do, and many are already doing. Just share your files with the few people you know will appreciate them and not whinge and whine, and to hell with everyone else. You know. Only a few short months ago there were threads whining because there were no decent files in freestuff anymore. No clothes, very few textures, poses, all manner of things that had translated to the store rather than the free downloads area. I wonder how much gnashing of teeth and tearing of hair there'll be in another few months when the endless whining has driven off another bunch of free downloads providers. Just like it did before and will again. It's a shame that people can't just be happy with what they get rather than bitch and complain about what they can't have and can't get and complain and cry a river over the fact that they can't profit on the kindness of others. But no, the great "I want, me, me, me" has to bully and browbeat and stamp it's little prima donna footsies. It's a shame this is the Internet. A clue-by-four really would be usefull at times like this. Hey, netherworks. If you have the time, I'll buy you a coffee, or maybe a something stronger in a Downtown Bar. This is getting old and tiresome. :) Yosemite Sam, signing off....

It's safer to assume restrictions and find out later otherwise, than to start using things commercially and get into trouble for it. I went through and edited all my FreeStuff. It took about 10 minutes. Considering how long it took to create the items, upload, etc., the 10 minutes to edit was nothing. All I did was Search on my name, right click on each item to edit so it came up in it's own window, made the edits, then went back to the original search and go to the next item. All my stuff except for one item is commercial or non-commercial use. (I'm hoping to have more time to start contributing again.) The one exception was the textures for Kozaburo's hair. Even then, in the notes, I stated that if Kozaburo gave permission for the hair to be used commercially, my textures were okay to use as well. The FreeStuff items are gifts. Even if you don't agree with the reasons, please respect the creators' wishes on usage. (Don't get me started, though, on commercial products with commercial usage restrictions.) Cheers!

It's wonderful that people will put so many hours and so much talent into the free stuff items, then give them away. Please don't stop just because a handful of people are too lazy to download the files and read the readme. If their time is so valuable, they should be buying items from the marketplace here or elsewhere where they can be a bit more sure of what they're getting. I also have to wonder if a "hidden" reason for the complaints is that free items cut into their own sales?

Like it or not, even commercial restrictions on commercial products aren't unusual. Take videos, for example...

It's a great way to get to know a creator's work. I tend to buy more from people who's works I have downloaded and seen up close. So don't throw that away altogether. To me, it's a sample, if I like the brand then I'm more likely to buy later on. And I AM grateful for that. Thanks to all. Q

Ha! My stuff is labeled "Non commerical use only", which only proves you should not belive everything that you read ;-) It don't actually mean nothing, my stuff is "No redistribution" only, all other uses allowed. Sortta pissed me off when they did that... Yeah, I know I can fix it, too...

Little-Dragon One of my rules is I will absoluteyly NOT put something in freestuff that has commercial restrictions. There is no realistic way to meter this. My only restriction is I don't want MM to end up on a utility disc and sold to make profit nor have it behind a paysite barrier to get at it. Other than that go hog wild. It would be impossible to use MM and have a "anything made with MM cannot be used commercially" clause. Since the morph targets aren't mine anyway how can I restrict their use.

Ok. I got out of hand and forgot Freestuff is a great resource. The auto assignment kind of sucked. It would have been nice if they had a third state of unassigned that way you could still read the notes or download the readme to check. Free after all is free. Can't complain about a bar of gold being too yellow. As for appreciation. I must have bought nearly $1000 worth of stuff from the Marketplace over the last two years so its not that I'm some lazy guy who wants everything for free. I am willing to pay $10 for a wig or $20 for new clothes. I'm probably one of the only people who actually registers their winzip. I changed my stuff to commercial. It only took a few minutes.

I noticed the change the day after it happened. I was a little annoyed that I wasn't notified so that I could change the settings (my free stuff has not commercial restrictions). Unless I missed an announcement, it would be nice if notification could be given in situations like these. I imagine a lot of fress stuff providers may not be aware that this is an issue yet. Meanwhile I do think it's a great feature...

wow, way to look a fucking gift horse in the mouth. bravo.

Gee, thanks

They seemed to have changed the default, incidently. Thanks, guys!

not referring to you, gorodin - im referring to the entire thread. im sick as fucking hell of people bashing freestuff, or whining about the conditions. someone is putting MANY hours into a product, then sharing it for free with complete strangers. instead of thanks, they get this bs. noone is forcing any of you to download freestuff. you dont like the conditions, then make the fucking stuff yourself or go buy it. threads like this infuriate me.

hmmmm, my one comment on this thread will be Thank you, thank you to all freebie creators who've made my poser usage a real pleasure. :) Rob

My PKUNZIP is purchased and registered. So there, Mason!

I'd like to thank everyone who posts stuff too. While I tend to not use stuff that has restrictions on it, I certainly respect those restrictions and the reasons for them.

I think that people offering up their hard work for free is laudable and should be appreciated. It is totally understandable if someone does not want a stranger making money off of their hard work. Meanwhile, people who do this stuff for fun and not profit have an even greater resource.

If you post free stuff, be assured that there are people that greatly appreciate it. I know I do.

As just a hobbyist, I REALLY appreciate you all. I hope the posters of free stuff never forget that we do(even if we like to bitch a lil every now and then). I just wish that Blackhearted and Questor would stop pussy-footing around the issue, straddling the fence, playing both sides,.....and tell us what they REALLY think!!...LOL Jest skiddin' guys.....:) Beav

I'm new enough to Poser to remember what it's like to start with basically nothing, and be really limited as a result. I remember the utter joy of discovering there were so many sites such as Renderosity and the 3D Comic Collective that offered hundreds or thousands of FREE High Quality items that opened up such great possibilities. I've never seen such an abundance of generosity with any other program for any other computer. This is totally fantastic. Many people give of their time, energy and their talent. They give stuff to help others. Many people have varying, but valid and honorable requests for how they want their work used. I really haven't seen any outlandish requests in this regard. This last controvery erupted after we got what we wanted. Many people requested some sort of designation concerning "commercial or non-commercial" use so they wouldn't waste time downloading what couldn't be used commercially. Renderosity was kind enough to make the change so many people wanted. So why the controversy? We've already lost many Free Stuff contributors due to various issues. One of the biggest is that of bandwidth. An artist must often pay money just to give something away. It's almost impossible now to find a web site host who will donate the bandwidth and storage space to house Free Stuff items. I wouldn't provide any Free Stuff at all if I didn't have a place to host my Free Stuff, other than my own web site. As it is, my web site host sometimes grumbles about the traffic I generate with the other stuff on my site. I've already made an increase in payments to him. Every time an argument like this erupts, we're in danger of losing more Free Stuff contributors. Who in the hell wants to spend hours or days putting something together that they give away, only to be insulted?! Who wants to hear all this whining and griping? *** The only reason I'm still inclined to give away some Free Stuff is because I remember what it's like to be starting out, and so thankful for something to help make things a bit easier and more fun. I get the joy of creating something, and from the those who take the time just to say "thanks." I don't ask for gratitude, but I appreciate it. But the negativity and hostility get old very very fast. Questor, we agree on this issue totally. Thanks for the compliment. Your stuff is some of the best I've seen. Ron

shrug The thanks are cool, but not really neccessary to me. I still thank the biggest "thank you" I ever get on something, and definately the most enjoyable is when I look in the galery and see that someone downloaded something of mine and actually used it to make an image. THAT'S cool! After all is said and done, that's really why I drop an item in freebies - I put some time into it, I thought it was cool, and I have the hubris to think someone else might think it's cool and get some use out of it. All other considerations are afterthouhts... the thing that goes through my head when I hit "Upload" is always "I wonder if anyone will do an image with it?". If they do... neat! Various threads and gripes wouldn't make me stop giving stuff away. All they'd do is make me stop reading the forums. ;] Heh heh... might be a good thing. I could put the time I waste in forums to good use.

I predict that this debate is going to get even meaner after Renderosity opens the "Digital Art Prints" portion of the Marketplace on July 1st. Suddenly people who wouldn't be selling anything otherwise will have that venue, and humans can get really weird when money's on the line. You're welcome to all of the wonderful people who offer thanks for freebies. It's great to hear that you're appreciated, and the thanks keep me going when I think it'd be easier just to rip everything down. And I'd like to add my thanks, as I'm a chronic freebie downloader myself. I'm glad that 99% of the people out there appreciate freebies. I don't even mind the debate about the definition of "Free" so much. It's just when someone insults me (usually freestuff providers with restrictions in general, but that includes me and I will take it as such) that I get pissed off.

I don't "need" thanks. However it is good to get some concrete way of knowing if anyone even reads my tutorials, or benefits from them, or if they like my Freebies. Otherwise I wonder if I'm just spending a lot of extra time doing something for nothing. If no one even looked at or used this stuff, I could spend more time making "naked Vicky in the temple" pictures. If people thought my work was crap, then I could either improve it or stop producing tutorials and Free Stuff. I rarely browse the galleries any more. And no one has ever told me they used my stuff on any particular image. But I think that happens most of the time for everyone.

Correct, except once someone emailed me for permission to use a prop in a commercial render. I said, "look at the readme - it says you can". Sometimes when someone uses one of my props they put a credit under the picture. Sometimes they don't, but I don't mind that. I like the fact that something I made was useful for someone else. I think (hope) that's the main reason why people do give away free stuff. All this "I sweated hours over that mesh" talk - let's face it, we do it because we like to do it and we like to be appreciated. The only time I was a bit peeved was the time someone used one of my props and credited it to someone else!

It's funny how this effort to improve the site brought up a simmering controversy. It's mostly academic to me, since the only rendering I ever sold would be to a school for the blind. Still, in mulling this over, I thought of an interesting (to me at least) parallel. In my world, programming, there are scores of sites offering free code people have contributed. I did a quick scan to verify my impression that in most cases, the code can be used in commercial applications as long as credit is given to the creator. It's been said that programming is as much art as science. Certainly, I think the motivation is the same as summed up by Phantast, "...we do it because we like to do it and we like to be appreciated." I'm not trying to denigrate free stuff creators or criticize anyone who prefers to have a NCR (no commercial render) restriction on their work. It's their perogative and I appreciate their generosity either way. I just find it another one of life's interesting little things, in this case, the difference in viewpoints between artists and programmers. Now, back to naked Vicky in a warehouse with an Uzi.