If this topic has been done before, I apologize in advance, but I was wondering what other peoples' opinions are on using alot of Photoshop or Painter postwork on Poser (or any 3D rendering for that matter). I notice many times that people will proudly say that they've used no postwork at all, but to me, It seems more artistic to use creative, well-executed postwork in a piece. I guess it depends on the piece and the feel that the artist is going for, of course, but I just wanted some opinions because I sort of get the impression that postwork is a big no-no around here. Thanks.

postwork for me is something I'm only just starting to use, I wanted to get to grips with poser first, like you said it depends what the artist is trying to achieve, but it's not a big no-no :) I say yay & nay for postwork. Rob

Some postwork is often necessary for touching up blemishes, broken joints, bad shadows, etc. And I mean necessary. But it's nice when the render comes out perfect first time, which is when people often like to draw attention to the fact that postwork was not needed. As to heavy postwork - adding filters, blurs and stuff, or even changing whole elements of the composition - well, that's very much a matter of what effect you want to create.

I'm with Phantast here - I guess it's inevitable when working with Poser to have to clean up little cracks and blemishes here and there. (The Smudge Tool in Photoshop is great for that!) I use very little postwork in my images, just a little tweak here and there, but overall I think it's cool to build up an image until it's perfect using a myriad of tools. It's just knowing when to stop, step back and say...finished! :-) Dave :-)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=205761&Start=1&Sectionid=0&Form.Search=Jaqui

I am someone who comes into this community perhaps from the other side. I have used Photoshop for many years designing artwork. When I was "awakened" to the possibilities which poser holds, I found it as a wonderful medium for which to create the base from which my art would spring. As such I had never had the intent for the renders from poser to be any final work. Though I admire the artistry of those who can develop the scenes to such a degree in poser, so that the final renders are artworks themselves.....but for me personally, I enjoy the postwork and find that is where my creativity flows.

Yay. I'm 100% with Rawnrr. :)

To me the final result is what counts. I consider Poser a tool like any other. Rawnrr has already said what I would have. Bear in mind that from Poser you can do alpha-planed renders and use a paint package to composite them, giving possibilities way beyond an "out-of-the-box" render, and extending the capabilities of a low-spec machine almost infinitely.

Sure this discussion comes up at least once a week. I do very little postwork. I haven't seen the need. I try to get it right in Poser, and then render. Jaqui, you have a nice image, but I still can't understand why it takes 17 hours to render. My longest render has been 20 minutes, and that included a whole lot of substance and detail. Are you working with an older computer?

I was a Paint-Shop User before I was a Poser user. I saw Poser as a way to put people into my images, not the opposite. As originally conceived, Poser was a tool to provide a figure reference for traditional-media artists, sort of an 3D anatomy book with lights and moveable cameras. It is only since it gained popularity as a standalone tool that the features have been advanced to where it is today. Is there a "right way" to use Poser? No, not really. I agree wholeheartedly with Rutledge, "the final result is what counts". Poser is A tool, not the tool. Anyone who looks down on or condemns a fellow artist for doing postwork is merely inflicting his personal standards on him. In the grand scheme of things, I'd rather be called an "artist" than a "Poser artist". To categorize yourself is to limit yourself.

Jaquis picture is rendered in Vue (I would suppose), hence the long rendering time. Not that Vue is slow (it's not), but a ray tracing rendering engine is always slower than a simple one like the one in Poser. Personally, I don't really understand the discussion "post work or not". It's the final result that counts. The process to achieve it might be of academical interest, but has no bearing on the artistical value of the picture.

Postwok- yea. And yay. It's fun. Photoshop! Wheeee!

Yep, about every 2 weeks this topic comes up (grins). Perhaps we should save the message number and just point the next time.

If you render in Poser there's no such thing as an image that needs no postwork. Even if it's only smoothing out shadows and mesh breaks, there's always something. It's well worth playing with the brightness etc. in postwork as well: those small changes can make a huge difference. But that's not normally what people mean when they talk about postwork. I wish I had the ability to achieve the sort of things that Morris does with postwork, but I simply don't have the time to devote to learning how. I wish I could paint hair like Stormi or SkoolDaze. Lacking those skills, I do the best I possibly can in Poser itself, and then do work in PSP or PSE. OTOH, I'm thrilled when I can "persuade" poser to give me an image that looks great without post. I've managed some...

I think it is the final picture that counts. When people start getting into the no postwork "rule" it is like getting into the no imported models or no thing that you didn't create yourself "rules" ... Personally the final picture is what counts to me .. No matter how it happened. The post work or no postwork thing is good for some people and it can show what a program can do but I just want to see good pictures :)

I've been doing some animation, so my post work is in After Effects. But still I try to get it right the first time. In video, 99% of what you see today has post work done to it. Just my 2 cents. Later

It's a shame if one gets to the level that compositional choices are crippled by the desire to avoid renders that need postwork. I know someone who used to arrange things so that if a figure was kneeling, there would be some object that hid the knees so you couldn't see they were broken. It looked so silly! And so much easier just to let Poser do them broken and touch them up later.

Personally I love to do postwork...it's actually fun for me...though a working tablet would be nice LOL. I love to paint stuff like hair and clothes and such, mainly because sometimes in poser they don't have the clothes you're looking for or you don't have enough money to buy the stuff T_T. Actually my last picture was entirely done in post, with exception to the poser figure which was Vicky. I dunno I have this weird need to do post @@ I was even going to ask people to post pictures up so I could do postwork on it @@ yes I need help...but now I'm doing another picture ^^ and yes it's lotsa fun ^~ LOL.

LOL, that's funny Stoshi05..."ask people to post pictures up so I could do postwork on it", but I know what you're saying. Sometimes I render a Poser character just to postwork it to death. :-) I agree with everyone who says it's the final image that counts...what I consider good, others might think is crappy, but that's human nature. Btw Jaqui, if you are rendering in Vue than it's my understanding that your images should go in the Vue gallery. Of course that's just my opinion too. :-)

if you are rendering in Vue than it's my understanding that your images should go in the Vue gallery.<< The rendering engine doesn't matter in which gallery you post in. If the image's focus is on a Poser character, it should be in the Poser gallery. I usually render in Bryce or 3ds max/MR, which usually goes into the Bryce/3ds max galleries, but that's only because the focus of all those renders has been a particular application that wasn't Poser. If I design/develop a Poser character, with Poser clothes, etc. And want to show that figure with the improved lighting and effects of a Bryce or 3ds max render, then it goes in the Poser Gallery. Paul ( Who only recently started working with Poser's scan-line renderer )

I feel it depends on whether its Art or CG. If the final output is Art then anything goes, use whatever you need to get your minds image on the monitor. My art instructors hammered this concept into my head many years ago, Art is freedom, freedom to choose your tools and techniques as you see fit, and to use as you see fit. CG is a pure render untouched, usually as a means of displaying a model youve created, more a presentation of see what i built, simple mechanics with no soul. My 2 cents. :-)

I think it depends on the image and what you're trying to achieve. Sometimes a pure CG render is all that needed and/or achieves what has to be to make the image "complete". Sometimes they need more work with some other utility or program. I think the end result to be achieved will determine the use of post-rendering or not - neither good nor bad - but what's best for the image. -asp1vip

i do a little post work but would do more if i was any good at it ;o)...if i look at an image i don't care if it has post or not all i care about is the image or movie...lets face it every time you watch a hollywood movie your watching a whole pile of postwork ;o)......Steve

Thanks for that Entropic. I guess I got my opinion from the Poser gallery which says "This gallery is primarily for images rendered within Poser itself." Here again, I guess it boils down to anything goes... :-)

Somehow, I smell the thread taking its usual turn, which is: "So, which gallery should a postworked-render be posted in?" (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Postwork? For me, absolutely. Like legume and others have said, for me, Poser is "one of the tools", not the only one.

No one not working the program cares whether there's postwork or not. I can promise you that. I shown people my fractals and proudly said no post-work and they're eyes glaze over. The only importance is to allow people working in your program, Poser, Vue, Bryce, to see what the limitations [and the abilities] really are in your rendering machine. To make a finished picture, for everyone- not just people working in the same program you are working in--I think postwork is necessary. And every single person does it-- unless you can sign your picture, shrink the render and make a jpeg out of it in Bryce, Poser, and Vue. There is no special divine grace in No Postwork, There may be some individual pride. And as a side issue, I really resent isolating good Poser figures to the Bryce or Vue gallery where I'll never see them. I don't care what render did them-- though I do want to know how they were rendered-- I only care if the Poser figures are the prime focus of the picture. Emily I do PostWork

Well, its a balance between being an artist and a technician. When I paint, or draw, I do what it takes to make it pleasing. Have an oil that a couple of years old now and I hate the water so one of these days I'll repaint the water and touch up some blemishes that I had not noticed back then. So with CG art, if I feel geekish, I proudly boast that its pure Bryce, or pure Poser. If I want a pleasing image, then whatever tool works and postwork is a must. Depends on your goal. Techinical or aesthetic.

Attached Link: http://www.annsartgallery.com