Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=675524

For the life of me, i could not figure out how the merge with PoserPros would have prompted the Daz position on m2 derivatives....to me, the timing seemed like a HORRIBLE break for those over at PoserPros...on this I think I was correct. I could not figure how the morphing bodysuits, and, even the tailor, could bring about such a revision. Well, I did a little research....it wasn't the merger, nor the tailor...although tailor probably helped to push the envelope, a bit.... I think you will find the answers you want to the "why"...in this thread....and Dan Farr, himself does address the issue. I am feeling a little less worried, now, at having my little wardrobe classified as a "derivative". Pop...Pop...Poppi!!! seeeeee....Pokeydots...your dress can stay up ;*)

Excuse me, but have you even read the thread? How can an old message thread cause a company to change its position months after the fact?! Sorry, but I see no relevance here.

I really dont think the theft of Posettes hand meshes would have prompted this. DAZ owns no rights to Posette and Dork. Steve Cooper and CL does. They may have manufactured them for CL, but CL owns all the intellectual rights to them. The only thing DAZ could help in providing was verification that the mesh was used. There is a big difference though. The actual mesh for Posette was transferred to Amy. Tailor DOESN'T TRANSFER ANYTHING, it simulates. Again, there is NO copyright violation. For Daz to deem this "illegal" as they have on PoserPros is farcical at its best, insulting at its worst.

Actually if you read the thread, you'll see that DAZ most definately had legal "say" in the Amy matter. In fact, DAZ talked to those involved, and eventually worked out "a private deal." DAZ refused to divulge any details. In the end, many people got excited over what they saw as a copyright violation, and they were told to mind their own business.

Weird, I once personally contacted Daz about making derivitive works and they told me to contact CL. The crazy thing that money makes us do.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=675524

Here's an entire message quote from Dan Farr at DAZ. This clearly indicates DAZ has an interest in such an issue. There is more. You can follow the link.: "To all, Anton has not done anything to damage anyone's reputation but has merely posted comparison images of the Poser 4 model and Amy from Imagination Works. We purchased Amy last night because we were suspicious that she may have been created from the P4 model. We spend several hours looking over the Mesh this morning and concluded (in our opinion) that Amy was definitely created from the P4 model. Some of our conclusions became evident right away, for example, the hand of Possette and the hand of Amy are identical with the exception that Amy's hand is triangulated and the fingernails are longer than Possette's. We contacted Anton this morning for his oppinion on this. He obviously shares our conviction about this issue. Anton was merely trying to inform you, his friends, about his findings. We don't want a public trial or lynching over this. As with similar issues in the past we prefer to contact the artist directly as well as the store that is selling the product in question. We have contacted TurboSquid and expect that this issue will be resolved soon. They have always been quick and willing to work with us on issues like this. I hope that this clarifies our stance on this issue. We appreciate your support on this issue as well. Sincerely, Dan Farr President, DAZ Productions"

FWIW: Curious Labs owns Posette. Not sure what DAZ had to do with the whole Amy issue, which I remember quite well. The only person who in fact can answer that question are the ones involved with the whole Amy debacle ( i.e. Imagination Works ) and something tells me they're not talking as part of an arrangement with either DAZ or CL... In other words, this debate can go on, but only DAZ or CL can really clear it up, and I'm sure they both have more on their minds right now. I don't think this has anything to do with the Tailor bs. Paul P.S.: Wish I'd known you were looking for this kinda stuff, Pop-meister... would have hooked you up with links and saved you all that archive digging. ;)

Hmmm... I think it has everything to do with the Tailor bs. Dan Farr's statement(s) in the Amy case pointed out the legal and logical difficulties of proving that a mesh is a derivative (or straight rip-off, as Amy seemed to be). This difficulty is the core of the current problem, IMHO. All the various ways to derive a mesh (morph dial combo in Poser, Tailor, shrink-wrapping of any flavor) are just means to the same end : use existing model data as "guidance data" (or straight raw material) in building a new one, thus using DAZ work to compete with DAZ work. I think it's very likely that the thinking DAZ did, post-Amy, prompted a revison of the EULA. And that EULA is the problem now.

You know, I had a thought this morning (and it is only a thought) but what if the stance that DAZ has on the Tailor has NOTHING to do with the Poser Community, but actually be the result of something that has occurred outside of the Community like on Turbo Squid or something? DAZ has allot of people, who aren't even a member in any Poser Community and one of them... or some warez kitty might've been creating product for sale or free elsewhere that created this stance... Just a thought... Jack

Jack, I think you might have hit on it. If someone is poised to put out a SuperHero with morphs-- they got a lot of headless figures over at Turbo Squid, some of whom seem to have slipped into management-- with suggestions you can put your own head on him, then Daz HAS to come down on other uses that are similar to stop it. Anything else would consititute a policy of permission. Emily

Attached Link: http://www.facegen.com/modeller.htm

If you want to build your own character for sale, this may be a link worth checking out ;).

that lil program seems real nifty, but only 4 faces... and creature creator is only good for beasts/demons/monsters/aliens....... oh well. guess well hafta deal w/ poser and making morphs 4 the rest of our lives....... lol

Look at it this way. For only $500 you can stick any face on top of Mike2 bodysuit. I'm a little giddy with the heat. Emily

Attached Link: http://graphics.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/people/volker/volker.html

Actually, facegen allows for the creation of a virtually limitless number of faces. I'm playing with the demo now. In fact, the company also offers a service where they convert photos to heads in a manner that looks to be far more accurate than past methods. It appears that the app is based on research in which you take 3D scans of a number of real heads to derive an "average" head. That head is subivided into eigenfaces...portions of the face such as forehead, nose, etc. which are then parameterized in relationship to each other to ensure that resulting heads look realisitc in their proportions. In theory, data captured from video, photographs, even a single photograph, can be compared to the "average" head, and a morph created reproducing the photographed head with great accuracy. there's an example at the facegen site, but if you really want to blow your mind, click on the link I've supplied and download the MPEG.

Okay...what about if i just use...morph manager, and, objaction mover....i put all the v2 morphs into v1...then, translate it with the mover? that is so far legal....i could sell the v2 w/the morph managed morphs...as v-almost free...and get by with it, with objaction mover, yes? i just don't want to have to go around daz to sell my little vicki wardrobe that i've been working so hard on. all hand modelled...no shrink wrap...groan...

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=765731&Reply=770240#198

Poppi, In case you're not joking, the answers to both of your questions can be found at the atttached link (scroll down to msg #198, if it doesn't take you there). 1. what you are proposing in this thread is completely forbidden. 2. There should be no problem selling your hand modelled vicki wardrobe. There's been a lot of speculation and mis-quoting on this subject, so the best thing to do is go read CL's reply at this link. Cheers, - Keith

why was there not a new thread...posted, on this issue? yeah, i am one of the old school....if i didn't "draw" it...even in a modeller...it isn't mine. i am so tired, jet lagged...i just gotta... Pop...Pop....Pop off to bed