Please read my original post which was moved for obvious reasons. http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=801186 then read my response to Lain http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=802125 Just because I didn't like Lain's image doesn't mean it should or Lain should have removed it. A compromise of a warning would have avoided this whole mess. I am not nor do I ever want this place or myself to be Art NAZI's. And please if you think I don't find beauty in the nude form you really should read my original post at the top. Thanks Vile

Honestly this is not about my ego here I am just really surprised to find many of you feeling the same way. I also think that there was some misconception as to why I am feeling like leaving. I hope this post will clear this up. I didnt leave at the last big break up to 3D Commune, but I also felt like more of a community back then. I will hang in there for awhile and hope for some change. All I am really asking for is mutual respect and some courtesy so that those of us who are tired of the crap can avoid it if we want. I really do feel there are some great Poser artists out there and I would hate to miss out on their art do to censorship. Thank you all again! Vile

Hey Vile I understand how you feel. It's not the nudity itself, it's the blatant almost pornographic use of Poser. As been said it's probably kids getting their kicks like it's playboy or something. Must say art may be in the eye of the beholder but even in the Bryce gallery I don't understand why some people post some of what I'd call junk. Or even multiple post of the same thing with a slightly different color or even WIP (which there is a whole other gallery just for that). Sorry for the mini rant. :)

Well, maybe 'osity needs to advertise their 'other' site (though I hear they don't own it any more) .... www.renderotica.com That's where the nudity folks should go. There's beauty in the human form, however, I have yet to see anyone capture a life image. I remember going to a couple of nude drawing sessions at the Univ of Ariz when I was a teen, or early 20's. First model was a guy. I left. Second model was a pregnant female. I tried graphite. Third time I don't recall much cuz I was sitting behind my sister sketched what she sketched. That was the most productive learning session I ever had. Then I realized that there's a big difference between art and hormones. (so I went back and glanced in a time or two to see if the model was a hot blonde). Then I got older. I have a great deal of appreciation for the artists here who create in other media, more traditional media, like oils and graphite. Those kinds of artists who look at CG as just another media and use it like a brush or pencil do good work. The ones who can't draw a line on paper if their life depended on it but know how to show boobies on the P4 fem really don't impress me, so I skip the images marked nude. I think the only nude I did in CG is the night tree in my gallery. And even that needs more shadow work. Well, I'm not leaving the community. I first came in here during a walkout over some issue I can't even remember. The real artists will continue to contribute and the fakes will wither by the road as an olive branch that was cursed. Give it time, deal with the cycles in the influx of new people, and appreciate the ones who have the eye and weather the storms.

You know, it would be great to see images in an artists gallery that are in traditional medial. I suppose folks don't scan and post because we really don't have any forums for that here. Maybe we should do that from time to time.

Leaving may be a missed opportunity, realizing one day that even a single nudity/obsessor may shift over and ply their talents on something notable. Art means many things to many people. I know the value I hold for it, Thus my Expressions.

Vile, As you know about a month ago, I had a confict with another member on the Poser Forum. According to all of the people I talked with that mentioned him at all, this particular person has been a problem in the past and specializes in flame contests. Fortunately this type of person is getting rarer on the internet, but it is very easy to get upset in an environment where you think everyone should get along and someone goes out of their way to break the rules creating tension and lack of trust throughout the membership. I learned very quickly that it is a matter that the mods should take care of and that if you see someone misbehaving like that again, rather than respond to them in a negative way simply change the heading of your response to "Attention Mods" and post a brief explaination to the mods rather than respond to a critter that probably delights that they have succeeded in bringing you down to their level. My personal feeling is that Nudity is ok if done tastefully, and these pornographer wannabees will eventually leave or grow up. As far as you go, I have learned alot from you. Notably the telescope idea you had a while ago and the more recent discussion with Agent_Smith on lighting. I think it would be our loss if you were to leave although I think you'd probably miss this place too. Glad you're not leaving. - bikermouse

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=107&Form.ShowMessage=801220

Here's what I think, This a more of a Poser forum issue for one, and two ya can't gripe on what somebody creates and calls it art! For sure we as mods look at images and we decide if something is proper for the forum it's in, and like all of you have mentioned it's prolly kids posting images, but we can't stop that for sure, but also as far as the nudity tag, it's there and there's not much more we can do about it after that except delete the image or images, And we do, DO our jobs, My Bryce Forum seems to be clean if ya will:-) I don't put up with any guff in there, but I let people speak their minds etc, But this is a issue that Rendo will deal with.

I got over the novelty of live nude models in art school. Every week in figure drawing class we had several nude models, both male and female, to sketch for several hours. You eventually become desensitized to the 'naughty bits' and learn to concentrate on the form in light and shadow. I think what we're seeing happen with Poser is that young men (most of whom have never worked with live nude models) are getting a little too excited with the realism of the new Poser models and texture maps. Unlike real models, you don't need to control your inhibitions with Poser. So, young men being young men, they play with the Poser girls the way an 8 year old boy plays with his big sister's Barbie doll when she is away...they undress them and give them a good look over. It's just good old fashioned immature adolescent male behaviour, plain and simple. It's just too bad that they feel the need to post them in the galleries. Or maybe some people are so desperate for gallery hits that they post nudes just so people will look at their work. Either way it's kind of pathetic.

Or better still, rearrange the galleries by subject matter entirely. Art, incidentally, is not always "tasteful". In fact, "tasteful" sounds like a recipe for bad, insipid art. Art can be quite brutal. The distinction between art and pornography is that the latter is intended to provoke physical arousal and only that. Art can share the same subject matter as pornography, but treating it in a different way. I would cite Allen Jones as an example.

And just for the record - I'm not in favor of banning nudity from Renderosity either. However, I am in favor of some repprucussions if the rules surrounding the "This image contains nudity" box haven't been followed. Deletion of the thumbnails is, I feel, an appropriate move. Being part of the community involves respecting the community, and following its rules. IF there's no incentive to follow the rule,s then why even bother to have them in the first place?

I must state that occasionally I use nudity in my imagery posted here. I try to keep it in a tasteful manner. (I try that even with my erotic imagery posted over at renderotica!) I post in the bryce forum here as I use poser as a figure creation tool to compliment my virtual camera tool (Bryce). I appreciate and value the ability and acceptance of use of nudity as an artistic tool in expression of my inner visions and would be very sad to lose it.

Well, imagine a history of art without nudity. Says it all, doesn't it?

Goya, Michaelangelo not to mention a lot of others whose works are well respected.

Art history is full of biblical, mythological, philosophical, you-name-it-cal pictures where the ladies just happen to be naked. Many of them were commissioned by some of the great, serious, grown-up nobles and clerics, all the way up to kings and popes. Guess even they had some adolescent streak left in them somewhere ;o) Some of the earliest (stone age) sculpture is blatantly erotic, the pompous titles of the Playboy-style artworks only arrived when westerners had decided that erotic meant naughty - the oriental cultures seem to have taken a far more mature view of things (probably the reason their erotic art does NOT look like teenage boy fantasies all the time LOL). Speaking as a deranged european, I'd suggest simply accepting erotic images - if you like the content, enjoy, if not, look at the pictorial qualities. If there aren't any, look at something else ;o)

FYI - The conversation has spread to the Bryce Forum on 3d Commune as well. Why am I not suprised? - TJ