Ok I don't have Poser 5 but after looking through the threads of today I have come to some thoughts. First of all I already notice that there's a lot of complaining about bugs etc. No software is perfect. Why not just accept that as fact. After looking through the P5 images throughout the threads I have come to the conclusion that CL has done an excellent job on P5. Look at the hair you can create right out of the box. Could most of you create hair like that before? And the price...just 349.00? That is a bargain indeed for what seems to come with this package. I think you all should applaud CL for keeping Poser alive and from what i can tell they seem to fullfill a lot of Wishlist items. Enjoy the product. Give CL praise for their efforts. Eventually P5 will be old news and if there is ever to be a P6, I'm sure CL will take into account whether their efforts are truly apprecieted. I also realize not everyone who has P5 is complaining most I'm sure are very pleased with their purchase.

This line of reasoning to me makes no sense. If you purchase something, you have every right to expect it to function as described upon purchase. For those who lived during the "early days" of computer integration, bugs were originally few and far between; oftentimes only showing up in extreme case scenarios. To me, it seems that the general consumer has come to the expectation that software should be unlike any other commodity. This is a very dangerous road to travel, as you are clearly stating that it is ok to release software before it is really ready for distribution. If you bought a new vehicle, for example, that just so happened to have serious flaws in its engine, would you be so forgiving? 'Aww, c'mon, let's give [insert auto maker here] some credit for at least giving us something. Maybe next years' model will be better.' Sorry, but I am confused.

... to get my hands on P5! Does anyone know of ANY piece of complex software that has EVER been released with absolutely NO bugs? I don't and I worked in the industry for over 25 years. A good friend of mine was fond of saying, "Well, we've found the last known bug!" ** with extreme emphasis on the word "KNOWN" ** I will not expect P5 to perform flawlessly now or even next year. It is a very complex piece of software and to "beta test" ALL the possible combinations with ALL the variables available in the hardware arena would be completely impossible ... even with an infinite number of "monkeys" and an infinite number of computers ... ... which reminds me ... speaking of monkeys ... [with apologies to Bob Newhart - from one of his monologues] It has been said, that if you had an infinate number of monkeys and an infinite number of typewriters and the monkeys just typed, and typed, and typed ... Eventually, you would wind up with all the "Great Books" being typed by the monkeys. Of course, you would need human "monitors" to observe what the monkeys typed to see when something of value was produced. What follows is a comment from one of those "monitors" ... "Hey, Dave, I think we got something here in row 29." "It says, 'To be, or not to be, that is the gazornenplat!'" ****************************************** Please hurry up and get here, P5, before I run out of jokes! [never happen, geep ... but I wish you had some good ones**] cheers, dr geep ;=]

"For those who lived during the "early days" of computer integration, bugs were originally few and far between" they could also do very little and often fit on a single floppy disk. programs are far more complex and seem to grow more complex exponentialy. yes I'd like to see less bugs but I haven't ever seen a newly realeased program without an occasional bug and that goes all the way back to the commadore 64. give this time and don't damn it before people have time to learn it's ins and outs. I think it may take a lot of time before people learn to use most of the new features properly.

Well I guess I'm part of the fews than don't like the Idea to pay for being a CLs guinea pig, I'll wait till all the major new bugs was fixed to buy Poser 5.

Please hurry up and get here, P5, before I run out of jokes! You just did! ;-) Seriously, I love seeing you've amde a post in a topic I'm intersted in ... I always get a good belly-laugh, and that's good for the soul. -Tim

Virus if you use windows you've been paying MS for years to be their guinea pig ;)

If you use any program or OS at all you've been paying to be a guinea pig, I know I have & I've been using computers in various flavours for 21yrs. Rob

I'm sorry, but I agree with creepy, at least on the surface. A few weird-ass bugs are one thing, but surely the beta testers caught the "missing polygon" thing, for example. Some of these things never should have made production.

Isnt a draft copy by its very nature imperfect, a quickly produced test print used for review?

Always best to report the bug, then you get the fix....Sharen

otherwise, I love it, haven't found a bug yet, still trying to figure things out...Sharen

One of the comments I saw from someone, I installed P5 over P4.... I would think that is asking for problems, especially considering the high probability that some of the old P4 files would still be in there, causing discontent. The software industry has it pretty easy in regards to releasing software with bugs...there is no excuse for releasing software with GLARING bugs....there were problems noted immediately..it was not because of digging deep into the recesses of the program.... BUT...if these folks installed over P4...who knows.... My copy of P5 isn't here yet...my excitement has waned a bit, but after seeing the dynamic cloth demo...wow....I'm getting pumped.

"I'll wait till all the major new bugs was fixed to buy Poser 5." I hate to burst your bubble, but they may never be fixed. Suppose you said "I'll wait till all the major new bugs was fixed to buy Poser 4." It does depend on how one defines "major bug," but if crosstalk qualified, you'd simply have waited for P5. Programming is so complex these days it's more like applications are organically grown than engineered. With so many variables involved, I never expect to see a program without bugs again (at least not for complex apps.)

Well I've been Microsoft's guinea pig, but at least I have been able to get a great compensation for exchange (I did betatesting for them prior to XP generation), but pay for do that job is another matter don't ya think? ;) About the Cross talk I never had that problem, because there is something called as null figure that helps you to fix that problem. I like how poser has been working as a plugin for other programs, but as stand alone Rendering Engine well you will notice the lack of features that it has, like radiosity features, I heard it has a raytracing engine, but once again Poser has been always behind the 3D rendering software develop industry standars. I'll sit here having a lot of fun reading the complains about P5 and the answer of all the Poser fanatic defenders, and how CL's labs staff will be trying to figure it out how to fix a little bug like the .obj export one for example. Expecting to have much more fun, yours truly

Attached Link: Let's get on with it.......

Yes, I got a bit of lava spilled on me when I made a very long gripe about certain things that I was battling in P4 a couple of years ago. I'm sure that I went overboard with it by ranting about things like freaky elbow bends, plastic hair and clothing, but now actually some things that I touched on have made it into the app! So our wishlist posts sometimes have sway, and yeah, I've worked with computers for a bout 20 years so I'm used to the little varmints that make the ole' pc occasionally hiccup. But I'm about ready to jump on up to P5 and wade a little deeper into the 3D stream....Yeeehaaaw!!!