Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=865463

This is a follow on from another thread located in the attach url... The reason this message has been started is a number of us think that we would like to present another option for Copy protection that we hope Curious Labs will take note of. Their present copy protection which uses an Activation Code has a few of us upset with Curious Labs. However instead of just moaning about the copy protection we would like to also offer other solutions. I'm not going to get into the details of why we might not like the present security scheme - they can be found on the other thread, however I will explain what we would like it replaced with (or an option so that we can choose if we wish). We ask that Curious Labs create a Hardware Dongle (or CD Dongle it is up to them) which instead of using the activation code, we could use the hardware dongle to "activate" our software. This way for those who don't have internet, for those that are worried about what will happen if CL goes bankrupt, or for those that just don't want to register, they have the option to have a hardware dongle which can be used instead. We have pretty much stated we would be willing to spend money to also have this option, and I believe a good round figure would be between 20-40US dollars to have this piece of mind, and security. This cost figure could change depending on what Curious Labs decide - but I'm sure a number of us would like this piece of mind, and would be willing to part money with this sense of security. There are a number of other security measures you could take also - which wouldn't even require additional hardware to be made. This can be anything as simple as having a community which is serial number activated on your webpage, and without it people wouldn't be able to get updates for the product (example of this is Rhino and Macromedia), and many other security measures which could be looked at. The point is - a number of us are not happy with your present protection scheme, and you will continue to get flak from myself, and other members of this community until our concerns with this security scheme are met. We would like to start dialogue in resolving these issues so as a community we can continue to grow alongside Curious Labs... The ball is in your court Curious Labs - please respond.. If you wish to have a detailed list of our concerns I can present one in this thread, however you can also see some of the concerns regarding your present EULA and Security Scheme in the attached URL... Regards WiNC

Our security technique actually should allow a portable, permanent, hardware dongle to be used in conjunction with the existing system. We are exploring this option and should have better details shortly. Steve Cooper Curious Labs

Steve, Do you mean in conjunction meaning that you will be still require people to register with you and still request activation code from your company - or do you mean that it will be a alterative for those who wish to use your product and therefore not have to go through all the issues with activation codes, and 'forced' registration? I hope you mean the later :) I look forward to your response :)

I hope you're kidding !!!! I can't imagine a dongle on my laptop !!! I think it's the best way to put your customer away. Laurent, Paris

Laurent - If it is what I hope then you should have a choice. You can buy the dongle which will remove the activation code "call home" feature - or you can use the call home feature. At least this way Curious Labs are working towards resolving the fears of those like me who think that IF Curious Labs goes under us customers will be out of penny. I personally think copy protection in most cases is a waste of time - but I suppose businesses need "the piece of mind" :) However - I have been getting some laywer friends to look into the EULA and also into the copy protection and there are a number of court cases which are being put against Microsoft for their Activation Code security which might be of interest if they do come to seed. One of which states that Microsoft is in violation of "constitutional law" because their Activation Scheme assumes a presumption of guilt on the behalf of the End-User. The email I got back from my friend has the following paragraph which kinda explains: "With the new Activation security features which Curious Labs has introduced they are running under the presumption of guilt. Under most laws in first world countries a person is assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. The Activation system that Poser 5 uses assumes end-user criminal intent, and that the user is going to perform illegal activates with the software. This type of assumption is in clear violation of constitutional law, and could even be classed as slander against the End-User." So with their present security feature Curious Labs are assuming us - the End User - are going to copy the software and give it to other people (they have already pretty much explained that is why they have put in the security system to start with). To be blunt - they are calling us thieves and they are acting on that belief :) /me goes and puts on her black cap, black catsuit and starts robbing little babies bottles .... WiNC

All the EULAs are often a problem. Some part are not legal in my country too, but it's not the topic. My main concern about dongle is the new kind of laptop with LEGACY BIOS (big sh*t) ! User can't control bios setting at all !!! Laurent

Laurent - okay that is evil: The thing is if Curious Labs want to be supportive for the community (like they continue to claim) they should probably give us the options. Some people might like the new Activiation Code system - fine all to their own. Some people might like the security of the Dongle Key system. Some people (like me) are big supporters of the CD Dongle system (which would work well on your laptop). There are many different systems, and not all are going to please all - however out of all of the ones I have said above, the ONLY ONE which forces you to register, treats you like a thief, and could screw you if the company goes bankrupt is the First one (activation code)... The other two mean that even if Curious Labs goes under, you will always be able to use your sotware (unless you break your CD, loose your Dongle, or loose your piece of paper with your serial number - all of which are your own fault). WiNC

.

Clearly, the right way to go with with the USB dongles, not the old parralel port silliness.

I know nothing about dongles, do you have to keep it in whenever you use the program or just when installing? If we'd have to keep it in whenever we use the program that would be a big bummer for those with laptops which have limited ports... Dawn

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=867537

Dawn - in most cases the dongle has a pass through method. You can still plug other devices into the dongle... Again this is a possible option - far better then activation codes which are taken from your hardware and what harddrive you have installed it on For a full detailed reason why a number of us are against this present security system that Curious Labs is using read the attached URL

A simple official statement that a Universal Code for permanent reactivation of Poser 5 has been deposited at a notary legal and will be made public should Curious Labs go out of business, is enough in my opinion, without the need of buying a dongle who WILL interfere with some systems. About dongles: I have two programs that use a dongle and yes one of those things (for a well-known software) forced me to buy and use a cable splitter because the dongle did not "like" something in the through port of my scanner and the software could not "see" it (and therefore locked up. Yes the through port worked with any other items I used it with). DOngles are the worst option and you know why? Because if/when you get a new piece of hardware that has an incompatibility with the dongle, or if/when a new version of Windows comes around, and for any possible reason it shall give you compatibility problems for your dongle with some drivers etc., what will you do, with your dongle? As long as there is an official guarantee that we will receive a universal code in case of extreme need, I have no problem with the present protection system. And as long as CL is in business... well, I certainly do not plan to pirate my copy of Poser, so I assume that CL people will be cooperative should I need reactivation. As long as we behave honestly , I see no reason why CL should "boycott" us with reactivations. Happy users are a need for them, not just a duty. I have a suggestion for CL: to speed things up, why not activate a special email address for activation/reactivation problems. I mean an address that gets read first priority over all other email. This to ensure maximum speed with activation/reactivation replies (useful for those who don't live in America and may have problems understanding spoken English by phone).

Orio - what about all those who don't have Email? Remember there are artists out there who don't have internet :)

"Orio - what about all those who don't have Email? Remember there are artists out there who don't have internet" Then call on the phone, go to a library and use a computer, ask a friend to do it or soemthing. I mean, really - how many people are there that are electronic artists who can afford a multi-hundred dollar peice of software and the hardware to run it and don't have the ability to find a way to contact CL? And you know what, so CL might lose a customer or two because of that - but I don't see how that is a real problem. Of course, I have been called elitist.

Um - you know what - screw it - I can see most of the people in this community are self centred individuals who don't give a fuck about anyone else but themselves... as long as it isn't going to bug you who gives a fuck about the people who arn't in US, or who don't have internet, or who don't look at renderosity or homepages to check things out. Yeah who gives a fuck about the people who don't know about this EULA, or about the copy protection scheme they will have to use when they first buy their software from the a corner store. Why should you care? After all - it isn't going to affect you is it... you are going to be fine, because you have internet, and it won't bother you if you have to contact Curious Labs 10, 20, 30, or even 100000 times because it really isn't a problem to you... Fuck - you self centred assholes just make me sick! HOW ABOUT FOR ONCE you think about people OTHER then youself! Thinks about those who don't have internet, who use Poser for a hobby, who don't download every single thing on the internet, or the school students learning it in university, or the beginning art student starting out, or any of the other hundred and fiften thosand other reason why a activation code system like this with these restrictions and issues will cause THOSE people issues! Maybe when you think about it for a second, you might be on the save god damn fucking wavelength and you can finally reponde without being so god damn fucking self centered!!!! For fuck sake! WiNC

Very professional, WiNC. So much for being taken seriously...

What about the Ahmish? Why this open discrimination against them?

(As the Violins are softly moaning) And what if I want to donate a copy of Poser 5 to some poor, starving person without a computer in Ethopia or Africa?!?! How are THEY supposed to register it with no computer, or phone, or postal service, or... or... And... and... snif! snif! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! I JUST CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE OF THIS!! I'm gonna go slit my wrists now. Good-bye Curious Labs... You've ruined my life! Good-by cruel world... I hope there's free copies of Poser 5 in heaven... snif!

Attached Link: http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy

The Ahmish are extremely upset at this treatment by Curious Labs, and have posted an official response at this link...

or the school students learning it in university, Name one university which teaches Poser which doesn't have Internet access. Have you asked CL reps what agreements they have available for schools? >or the beginning art student starting out, If you're an art student learning CG, it's highly likely you have a computer and can afford an ISP. If you don't, you have resources at school. If the school doesn't have computers or Internet access, sorry, but they have needs to fill before they should be teaching Poser. I don't like what I understand about this invasive registration scheme, but the assertion that it hurts aspiring students doesn't hold up at all. CL has generously made free FULL P3 and demo P4 available on the cover ROMs of art magazines and elsewhere. You don't need P5 to learn Poser! It isn't owed to anyone. The fact that the entire world isn't wired as well as much of the USA is a simple fact of life, gradually changing. Unfortunately, what originally seemed like legitimate protest now appears to be a self-centered campaign by an overly emotional individual who becomes abusive and vulgar in the company of differing opinions. NOT a good way to earn respect for one's cause!

Legume, Your messages are always fascinating... "What about the software pirates? How will they register THEIR copies of Poser?" Why, they will be offered an amnesty program of course!

I >am< thinking about someone else. I am thinking about the people at CL who are trying to make some money and have a right to try and protect their property. Software protection does prevent >some< piracy. This is a reality. The question is, does it prevent enough piracy to be economically viable when balanced against tech support and so on. In CL's case, it seems that it is. The abilityt o use Poser is NOT a fundemental right of being alive. It is a circumstance that many people enjoy, but many never will. So if it turns out the Internet is a requirement for Poser users, thats life. I mean, think about it. If you don;t have the 'net to get your hands on the props, textures and models, even just the free stuff out there your use of Poser is seriously lessened anyway... so in effect, the 'net is already practically the life blood of Poser.

Tempus, Legume, Winc (Tempus)Thanks for the link! Legume(thanks for your humor over the last 2-3(4)? years. Soulhuntre: EXACTLY! The folks at CL need to make a living, EgiSys needs to recoup their financing, etc. The people I have met from CL are very nice and enthusiastic, A BIG thanks for Steve Cooper, Larry Weinberg, et al! Winc-all good points-but there are always exceptions-The CD approach would require the CD be present during use-not a great option if you want to use the drive. In truth-none of the options will please everyone- I

Firstly let me apologise for losing my temper... I'm so happy that you people take humour out of this - and especially out of my outburst. The thing is, I didn't lose my temper over the software, no I lost it because of idiots like some of you who believe that the way to resolve this issue is to degrade, insult, or just plain joke about our feelings and about our concerns, or just private message me with your insults and personal attacks It is a perfect example of Democracy at work guys. We want to have a say, you come along and basically try and make a mockery of it. The funny thing is guys - after looking throgh the forums, I honestly have differculty finding anything you have written as constructive or intelligent... So at least you are keeping with your trend. Though I do suppose I deserved the F'U URL :) It was funny :) Though I do hope personally that you haven't insulted any Ahmish members of our community. I will try and not loose my temper again and just ignore the morons who want to make fun of our agreement. ------------------------- 1) There are people who are Computer Artists and do not have internet. How about you think outside your own country for a moment, and think about some countries where Internet is not yet as established as it is there. 2) xoconostle - Think outside your own country a moment. There are a number of universities which do not have Internet, or Colleges, or they have internet but do not allow private use of the internet (or even email accounts). We have two such colleges/universes in New Zealand that I know of right away (not including ones I know I don't know about). 3) Just because someone uses CG does NOT instantly mean they have access to the Internet. It is possible to be a budding Art Student and buy software in New Zealand (for example) without being on the internet. Unless Curious Labs plan to not make their product buyable from shops (and just from the internet), I don't see why this will be any different. WiNC

WiNC, Amish Rake Fight has been around for a long time, and was not made my me. Now can you dig that.... sucka! (insert spin-a-roonie here)

:-)

WiNC said... "I lost it because of idiots like some of you who believe that the way to resolve this issue is to degrade, insult, or just plain joke about our feelings and about our concerns" And: "I will try and not loose my temper again and just ignore the morons who want to make fun of our agreement." Uh.. Don't look now, but your hypocracy is sticking out. Maybe you outta zip up yer mind!