I just wanted to let people know that there have been images popping up with some regularity on stationary being shared as "snaggs" on a variety of groups on Yahoo relating to a stationary program called incredimail. I do not see the images being credited to the artist and I am not sure who gets them originally but they often to not credit the artists. Most of the stationary is for personal use and they usually add a disclaimer...after being shared through over several similar groups it is hard to know who "snaggs them" and in some cases the orginal artists signature is not visible and again no credit or link is provided so I am guessing that there has been no permission obtained. Some of the sharing persons are pretty good about getting permission, but others do not. I have not jumped up before as I have only become aware of this recently....I did see Toxic Angel's work with credit and these lists generate lots of mail with lots of graphics....this is a heads up...I think many of the "snaggers" are not aware of the gallery images otherwise I am pretty sure there would be a greater flow of this type use of artists stuff....you need only do a search of yahoo groups under incredimail to find a ton of lists...I am trying to pay closer attention as I think it is unfair that artists are not given credit for their work or are not given the opportunity to give permission...these people generally will respect the copyright that is why I think that the artists are passed along as unknown....

What a shame to get wide circulation of an image with no credit. Folks need to put more prominent signatures on the versions they post, postitioned so they won't get faded out at the edges.

Attached Link: http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/list.pl?gallery=867

Just curious "Lorraine".. Unless your real name is 'Anatoliy Meymuhin', you just did pretty much the same thing that you're criticizing. That picture you included with your post comes from Antoliy's gallery at: http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/list.pl?gallery=867 Your post included no credit for the picture. Is it yours?

Different context Norbert. Comparing commercial app. to news story. I, for one, am glad to be aware of this situation.

There were (I don't know if there still are but I suspect so), groups on AOL are snagging graphics and tutorials without giving proper credit. Such activity has caused some tutorial writers to take down their sites as a result, and it is a shame because the tutorials were free.

Tons of "Tube" lists on Yahoo-- most do not credit, many are aware of the copyright problems and deliberately try to avoid giving copyright. I belonged to one for awhile to "take a look" and to learn how to make tubes. I only shared my own work. The rule of the list was, dont put the name of the artist in the subject line-- why would that be a rule unless they were trying to break copyright? Most were not Poser but big names like Olivia and Vargas. But a goodlynumber of Poser pics showed up-- this list averaged over 75 posts a day. Emily

I thought Lorraine was posting an example of a graphic she felt had been "snagged"...not claiming it as her own. Perhaps she didn't know the artist but recognized the graphic as one she has seen (I've seen this graphic myself but I don't remember who created it originally). I don't get the impression she was doing anything but trying to bring it to the community's attention as something to be aware of.

Okay "Norbert". Whatever!(LOL)

Exacty Dialyn!

OK "Lapus". Brush brush...

http://www.firelily.com/support/depression/trolls.html

Thanks for the link, Lapis. It explains your problem very well. One step toward getting over it, would be to stop answering posts that are directed at somone other than yourself.

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/simplepsych/paranoia.html Perhaps the above link would be of assistance. 1 in 3333...how rare. There is help though. Lorraine, I appologize for Norby's behavior. We're not all like this here.

http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=898516 Post #43 Here's what you said, Lapus.. "I believe the saying, "don't throw stones if you live in a glass house" is appropriate here. We all have quirks which are really only percieved as such out of pride and ego. Our individual perceptions of reality are fashioned out of are own unique experiences. Without tolerance(which is really an extension of love), we are truly alone. Without judgement we thrive. We all have bad days; we all make mistakes. Lets pick each other up and move forward. You can actually "feel" the difference when you let tolerance or love flow through you." Guess when you posted that one, Mother Renderosity, you had already decided that kind of "higher" consciousness of yours, won't be applied to me personally?? By the way.. If I was a troll, don't you think everyone else here would have had the intelligence to have weeded me out as such, by now. After all, I've been a member since early 1998. How about you? Your posts only go back a little over a month. Staunchly defending a bunch of pictures of "Crap", might come across as having it's own "Troll" like qualities, to some people. Maybe instead of "glass houses", try considering "look before you leap". You 'applolgize' (sic) to Lorraine for MY behavior, Mother Renderosity? She's been around here pleanty long enough herself. If she feels that I owe her an apology over a post that I directed to her, before you butted in, she knows how to stand up for herself. Trust me on that! I recognize a two-faced jerk when I see one, and I'm not wasting any more time on you. I also fully realize that I can be somwhat of a jerk, myself, but you won't be finding any posts from me, saying 'lets all kiss and be tolerent friends' on one hand, while I use the other hand to slap people in the face. What you see is what you get. Try it some time, Lapis-Mother-Renderosity.

"Different context Norbert. Comparing commercial app. to news story. I, for one, am glad to be aware of this situation." That was my quote which was treated by you with sarcasm in your response of: "OK "Lapis". Whatever....(on and on)" Who "butted" in Norby? You came into this post like a bull in a china shop right out of the gate. You were rude and sarcastic from the get go and you've managed to accelerate from their "Norby". Digging up past posts doesn't apply because they are taken way out of context here. Your posts always speak for themselves. As far as defending posts of any type, I staunchly believe in forums with no censorship of anyone or anything including your childish display. You took the leap first and I believe children should be treated like children. How old are you Norbert? I'm guessing 16, 17 maybe; although I have to admit my 10 year old daughter displays much better behavior than your childish display here. Perhaps you should consider a time out Norbert. A chill pill maybe. On a more serious note I do suggest you seek professional help for your misdirected anger. I am very serious about that Norbert.

LOL!

Nice to see your in a better mood.

Norbert...I did not remember where that image came from, I was hoping someone would remember...I am glad you did and I hoped to contact the artist, I have kept some of the emailed sources to let the artist know; sorry I posted the picture after searching the gallery for a while...thanks for adding the name of the artist...I have seen others as well they tend to cut some of them up a bit to make them useable, but I am seeing more than afew...I am in the process of saving the images that I recognize...I saw a few that I do recognize by name....I simply wanted to raise the issue...

In fact Norbert, what I had hoped was that the artist would recognize the image and the fact it had be altered and contact me....There are many images that I cannot offhand remember the artist....I do, however, want to make sure the community is aware of the use of the images...in the hopes of not making the problem worse I started here so the artists can take a look...I know many artists will give premission with credit or a link so it is a shame that they do not get permission, I did worry that if I identified this gallery over in that group they would rush over and snagg a lot more.... There are some talented stationary creators and it offers another area for graphic creation....

"I recognize a two-faced jerk when I see one, and I'm not wasting any more time on you." Posted by Norbert directed to Lapis.Hey Norbert,knock of the personal attacks.We are not here for that.Lapis has his right to post.Don't diss him for it.

Well, we've all come accustomed to locking our cars at the store and in some cases, insurance won't pay on a stolen car that was unlocked. Why? Cuz its so common that we have a duty to protect against the obvious. Ya think that when images are posted on the web, it might be like leaving an unlocked car on a street in a bad neighborhood?

Not really, because if someone steals your car, you don't have a car anymore. A better analogy is that putting an image on the web is like making a big pile of photocopies and leaving them on a street corner with a big sign saying "please take one".

Just because something can be done doesn't make it something one should do, and it doesn't mean that someone shouldn't try to educate both the creators of the possibility and the snaggers of the legalities involved. There are moderators on some of the Yahoo groups who do require members to credit the artists and tutorial writers, and will ask permission before using any graphics or tutorials from another site. And there have been groups closed because of complaints of copyright infringement. It takes energy and persistence but it is possible to cut down some of this activity. And new creators of graphic art may very well not understand the risk they take by posting their creations on the web. Most people are rather innocent and optimistic at the beginning. Often the snaggers think they are paying the graphic designers a great compliment by using their stuff and don't realize how dismaying it is to see a graphic you've carefully prepared cropped and altered into another format, with or without credit. I'm not defending them...I've quit groups that engaged in such activity....but I know many of them don't understand what the problem is from the creator's point of view.

dialyn, I agree with your position on this, I had hoped that posting here would alert the artists that this is happening and also allow them to do as they might wish with regard to the information. I think it is quite a compliment to have your art "snagged" people always enjoy good artwork and it is very nice to have email with lovely pictures on it....I really do hope that the "snaggers" become more responsible with art and understand that the artist owns the image not them....I also think it is important that the artist get credit so that they can attact interested persons who might want to commission work...also it is yet another application for images, artists might consider it another market...or at least advertising.... Most of the people are trying to say they did not create the artwork...they "snagged" it and many do make sure they get permission....I have seen notices posted of lists of work that allow use and those who do not....House Mouse is one that does not....etc. I think that artists might also notifiy moderators that they do not want their artwork "snagged" and used....or that they do....it is a whole new world out there for digital artists...

Lorraine...I am with you on this. And I thought that you presented this information in a thoughtful way. I hope you don't feel discouraged about bringing up other issues. It's important for us to know about what is going on beyond the world of the forums, and I appreciate your insight very much.

Artist3D said: "Lapis has his right to post. Don't diss him for it." From post #15, above... "Who "butted" in Norby? You came into this post like a bull in a china shop right out of the gate." Well.. From the looks of it, going by what you two have to say about it, I DON'T have the right to post?? There's really no point in you answering that. I've seen you two in action around here. Couple of control freaks, making a big 'effin' deal out of stuff. Looks like you skipped reading post #15,'Artist3D' or maybe it's just MY so called "dissing" that's not allowed here?? See the line up there in #3 that says, "Just curious "Lorraine"..? It doesn't say, "Tell me this is irrelevant, Lapus." Considering how easily Lapus is able to keep going on and on about tired and worn-out topics on this forum, he might consider being more careful about flippantly dismissing what other people have to say. Good chance that it'll eventually all end up coming right back him. I'm not faulting Lorraine here, but if she had put in her original post, that the image included was "snagged" and she wanted to know who the artist is, she would have just as quickly got that information from me, anyway. I've see that picture here before, being added to somone's posts, like a decoration. (I'm not going to search 2 months back for it. To hell with that!) There was no credit given for it then, either. Might have given people the impression that it was their own work, don't you think? That's why I posted what I did. Sorry all of this transpired how it did. Really.

Get real. Need a scapegoat? I'm not it pal!

And you're dismissed, Lapus.

Gee, thanks Norbule.

Sheesh... Talk about being "childish". Twisting somone's name around, in an attempt to ridicule. That's about as 'grade-school mentality' as it gets.

That's what you've been doing to me. Take a look.

Norbert, you do realize that anyone under the age of 16 needs a release form from their parents to be on this site?

Could all you lot bloody well behave? You're acting like a pair of spoiled brats! jeez No wonder poser artists are never taken seriously. AND THAT'S BOTH OF YOU - Norbert AND Lapis You both play well now, okay? I don't want to see a rehash of this in another thread. Lyrra (Moderator - or maybe Kindergarten Teacher. It's hard to tell)