In case you're interested, I'd like to point out that there are an awful lot of customers watching the current drama. Some buy an item here or there from the Renderosity store (heck, I sometimes do that for my own entertainment). Others (myself included) do business on a fairly large scale. When something looks interesting for work, we might order 30 or 40 licenses (or negotiate a site license) for a particular model. Just one disappointed customer, on this scale, means a loss of several hundred, or even several thousand dollars in brokerage fees. Can you really afford to throw tantrums in front of the customers? Most businesses can't. Personally, I'm much more impressed with the conduct of the merchants in this issue than I am with the Renderosity staff. (even though there's still a bit of "I'm going home, and I'm taking my ball" about some of the merchant's attitude). That's just my take on it. Ciao! Joe

Joe.. Some merchants are very upset with this current issue, and the way it was handled.. It's just one of a long string of things we have had to put up with. Some are fed up enough that they are pulling their stores. And that is their right. Unfortunantly customers think that this is just the only issue. There's a lot more that goes to this. We are trying to fight for all merchants rights and customers rights. We hope our customers will bear with us for the moment. Sorry about the dust.. Storm

Where do merchant's rights and customer's rights come into this?

This is about Competing Brokers accessing a private marketplace discussion forum.

Jeff said: "Where do merchant's rights and customer's rights come into this? This is about Competing Brokers accessing a private marketplace discussion forum." No offense to you Jeff, but what makes it about Merchant and Customer's rights is the fact that certain individuals have been discriminated against and have had their trade restricted here... and there are concerns that this could continue to broaden at some point to other Merchants who could be viewed as having an affliation with the ones that have been already been restricted... ...restrictions... boil it down and that is perhaps the focus of these individuals... restrictions... and the one thing I've learned in this Community, people hate the idea that they might one day face restrictions themselves. Jack

...oh, sorry, and discrimination... :o) Jack

"Where do merchant's rights and customer's rights come into this? This is about Competing Brokers accessing a private marketplace discussion forum." Gee, JeffH, I don't know. Maybe because we are talking about Competing Brokers who are ALSO merchants here? "You" (the general Renderosity "you" not JeffH in particular) are fine with taking your share of their money but not fine with giving them the same rights as every other merchant. Talk about discriminatory business practices. The entire thing was handled very badly. How can wanting your products to do well in this marketplace be harmful to Renderosity? If anything, they'd want the store to be successful because then THEY make money too.

merchants rights.. That ALL MERCHANTS no matter what are allowed the same tools and same rights as every other merchant. Customer rights.. that ALL MERCHANTS be able to have those tools and rights to best serve their customers on ROSITY. Does that clarify for you, Jeff?

Actually no. The private discussion forum is not where the tools are located.

All merchants have access to their accounting/advertising tools whether they have access to the forum or not.

wiz, no point in saying anything further. Lets sit back with a glass of wine and some popcorn and watch the festivities. I know what you're trying to say, but its going to be lost on ~everyone~ here... I know you have money burning a hole in your pocket, but it seems to me that nobody is really bothering about what the PR implications of the situation are right now. Sure all this is bad for business. That's an understatement. They'll just insult you here anyway. If one side doesn't insult you, the other sides will make a point to make up for the loss. I see that already happened. My my. What does 'bad for business' and 'bad PR' have to do with consumer rights? Oh well, its not my business... so I dont have to bother about it. wiz, you are invited to have a gander at my gallery though :) Its just a humble collection, but I'm kinda proud of it anyway.

But they do not have access to the forum where policy announcements and such are made. They do not have the same voice as the other merchants do in regards to things that affect their sales equally. No, they are being told now that they can contact ClintH (who probably doesn't have enough to do, huh?) and he can keep them up to date on policy changes - most likely AFTER they have taken effect. By then, it's really too late to offer your input. Though, I'm sure the excuse is "They're competing brokers so their input would only harm Renderosity". It's a bunch of bull and you know it. My suggestion would be to just get rid of the merchant's forum altogether. Renderosity has shown that it does not need nor want merchant feedback even when they ASK for it. Just start a newsletter to inform merchants of changes and then NOBODY is being discriminated against and we can all get back to business.

An excellent idea. Close the forum. That should take care of it. Would have been much better if that had been done in the first place. Then nobody would be complaining really about it, as there would be a nice newsletter and email contacts to take its place. Very smart. Doubt anyone listens to that idea, either.

I send out a monthly flyer on the second Tuesday of each month to all merchants. This flyer contains updates and changes that are geared towards being a merchant at Renderosity. FYI, Clint

bijouchat.. Shaking head I got it as well. We all got it. Jeff.. Those are not the tools I was talking about and you know that.

Heya Clint, I know about the flyer. My suggestion is to just get rid of the merchant forum completely. If the Powers that Be want our feedback before implementing policy then can have us fill out a poll. It would be the simplest solution and then NOBODY is left out of that forum and nothing that doesn't need to be seen is seen. You know what I mean? Everyone would be treated equally. That's all anybody wanted to begin with.

yes they can just conduct surveys instead of having a forum, which is a better gauge of opinion anyway... as you'll catch some people speaking their mind in the survey that might not do it publically.

We will be keeping the forum. Clint

then you'll have to play hide and seek with the people you exclude, at least the ones that care enough to bother you to want to know anything... ...so they can go reposting it all in their forums for entertainment value at your expense, and laugh about it. You'll probably have to sue to make them stop it, and that might not even work. I see a stomach ache coming on. Time to tune out. See ya.

"We will be keeping the forum." And treating some merchants differently than others. It's not good business practice. I guess the point is moot since the main people it affects have pulled their products out of the store. In the long run, how is this good for Renderosity? Word of mouth can do serious damage to a business. I won't speculate on the motivations behind these changes because, quite honestly, I just can not fathom it. This makes me really wary. I'm not sure when I'm going to be ready to spend my money here again. I can name a couple merchants here that I will never buy a product from again due to their own behavior in this entire mess. It also makes me wary of placing items in this store in the future.

I see no move at all towards compromise.....no one is willing to give a fraction of an inch.

Until people calm down -- there's not much that can be done.

Except to ride out the storm.

I think that I need to go to the marketplace to buy something........for Poser.

That way, I can create my own little world.

Has anyone looked outside today?

Another thing - I think that there's an election going on today. Yes, it seems that I heard something about that.....

Jack - You can contact Tim directly with your issues. Non-competing merchants - This change has not directly impacted you nor will any changes be implemented to affect you. This change was put in place to benefit you, although you are not willing to see how that may happen. Time for this argument to end!

I already voted. I'm not interested in hearing how it goes until later tonight. It's raining here :( Cold and wet. Sucky weather. ::shrugs:: I offered at least some sort of solution. Obviously saying "this sucks" didn't help. At least Clint had the courtesy to say it wouldn't happen. At least I tried, eh? Trying to be a peacemaker isn't going to work right now. The issue is too hot. Unfortunately it appears that those who have the real authority to fix this aren't listening.

"I guess the point is moot since the main people it affects have pulled their products out of the store." Maybe not, This could only be the first wave. Why would they only ban the owners of competing sites while allowing Mods and admin from those same sites to stay? They may well be planing on another purge soon. They knew when they did this that those merchants they banned from the forum would leave. Not too smart while trying to get CP off the ground is it? What could the conversation about this policy change have been like? Hey Ive got an idea, since CP is just around the corner and we want to get it off the ground with a bang lets drive away some great merchants, piss off the customers and destroy the trust the merchants have for us by breaching contracts. That should really get CP going. 8-) NOT.

Not too smart while trying to get CP off the ground is it? ah mannn....the way cl is handling their "blue screen of death", and eula problems, and this place is handling the public relations end of the ballgame... i've a sinking feeling that cp is gonna be looking like the fringe of a fleamarket in taiwan. (happy shopping :*) nothing against our taiwanese, neighbors, just a fact.

Yep I gotta agree, Have none of these people taken business classes? As for CP, if it works it will be a miracle. I certainly have no intention of using it when I get P5. I like to search out things for myself.

Incredible. Really not much to say here, I think the staff representing this site in this thread already shot themselves in the foot several times; unfortunatly there's probably still more than a few gullible members that can be fed with the porridge of deception that gets spoon-fed around here. Yummie.

Too bad those customers don't buy anything that isn't made for Poser.

Paranoid it may be but what happens if the PTB get it into their heads that we can't be members of other forums & stay with 'rosity?

I meant sites not forums, sill me :)

That's easy, c1rcle - no-one would stay with 'rosity. Can't see them doing that, though.