There is an item in the Market Place that has the following requiremnt for its use on a commerical project. If I'm purchasing the items, why the restrictions/requirements? "If you wish to use these character settings in any artwork for commercial gain there is only one restriction and that is you list the product in some mannor and send a copy of the image to jstevenson@slavemonkies.com..." I thought this was only for free stuff.

Screw 'em--don't buy it: and send them an IM telling them why. Part of what you're paying for should be unrestricted use.

That kind of thing could be a problem for me. If I do a commerical job they wouldn't take kindly to me sendind off their copyrighted work to someone else. "...there is only one restriction and that is you list the product in some mannor and send a copy of the image to jstevenson@slavemonkies.com..." He say only "one" restriction, but it sounds like two. The first requirement "listing the product in some manner" could be a problem too. Some clients list the artist's name, but wouldn't like two artist's (unless they are on the contract), because it puts the copyright ownership of the art in question.

Doesn't Renderosoty have a rule for merchants to the effect that the renderosity license is the only one that productas sold here can have and that they arem not allowed to add additional requirements besides the ones in the R'osity license? Because that's the only EULA I agree to obey when i buy something here. I have no problem with the terms in R'osity's license, but I would not accept any additional terms set by the seller.

I wouldn't buy it either on those circumstances. Hopefully one day I will be able to sell some art, I wouldn't want to have to remember what items had restrictions for my pics and which ones didn't, etc.

Marque I was about to buy, it is not a bad package, but something happened to catch my eye and when I read it, I was surprised. I normally would have assumed (since it was a purchased item), that it had the standard requirements. I guess I'll have to check everything now.

Because I do commerical work, I try to avoid any item that is questionable in any way, or would give me a headache later. This one snuck up on me.

This pisses me off to no end as well. The guy has already been compensated. Maybe he just wants to see his stuff in use but that shouldn't be a restriction. When you buy a new car nobody tells you there are certain roads you can't drive on with it. This non-commercial thing also pisses me off in freestuff too. I can understand someone not wanting a prop taken from freestuff and resold and its ownership claimed by someone else (like someone did with my stuff at props guild by putting my free items behind a pay wall) but to restrict the use of a prop in a render I think is silly especially when its an add on to someone else's stuff like a texture. Now this product raises the issue that I'm going to have to check everything I buy to make sure I can use it. I bought the damn thing! I paid already! Its MINE! Someone else did that a while back with some space ships for mojo world. Plus the disclaimer was in small print so you could almost miss it. This is really the store's fault. They should have it strictly enforced as when an item is placed in the store how it can be used in commercial production. If you don't like it, don't put your item in the store and sell it somewhere else and certainly not put added restrictions on it on top of the store's policies.

Welllll--you could look at at this way, too: SO WHAT if a MP item has some bogus restriction (for commercial use only if you blow me first, or whatever)? IF they see your "unacknowledged" work somewhere (and what are the odds), and IF they bother to track you down (ditto) AND if they actually have the balls to give you a hard time, you can always tell them to screw off (go ahead and sue me--let's see you show a jury how you've been damaged). I certainly wouldn't look through all of my dl's to double-check. I don't really get the free-stuff restrictions, either--give it away or don't, but don't hang a bunch of meaningless conditions on it. I always assume that "non-commercial use only" in free-stuff means "don't say it's yours and sell it" and nothing more.

Mason "...to restrict the use of a prop in a render I think is silly especially when its an add on to someone else's stuff like a texture." Here is a funny one, I bought an item(no thats not the funny part), and I noticed a freebie texture(by the same company/person), but the freebie was restricted to non-commerical use. The individual put out a restricted texture for his own unstricted product!

Part of the deal in free-stuff, as I understand it, is that the non-commercial use flag is the default uplaod setting. So you have to a)know, b)care, and c)turn it off, otherwise your item comes up restricted.

Quote from the Digital product upload page: You must agree to include the license exactly as found below in your archive file. You are not allowed to make any changes to the license. This is to protect both you and the buyers from unscrupulous licenses. You cannot supply your own custom license at this time. 'Nuff said.

Madyuri - yup. and when I buy soemthing from the store I don't care one bit what the seller says it can be used for, I'm using it for commercial renders and that's it. If someone doesn't like that, don't put your item in the store. I'm not selling the mesh or texture just using the item in a commercial render. They got paid as far as I'm concerned.

what's a mannor?

I totally agree mason. It's like buying a computer and dell telling you that you cannot use it for work...it's yours you paid for it.

I think a lot of these artists, especially the new ones, just want to use your art (from their mesh) as part of their portfolio. Like, if you get that great job working for a major movie studio and use their objects, they can claim some credit and use in their own portfolio. I purchase a lot of models from R'sity and DAZ and wonder just what the laws are in using a product commercially. It used to be that when you paid for a model, you were allowed to use it in any render--commercially or non-commercially as long as you don't distribute the original mesh object. If used in either case, must you identify the artist for each object used in a rendered image? I'm curious because I use many in a web page that is NOT for commercial use and I make no profit from it, but find it tedious to list each and every artist for each and every object used especially ones that I paid for.

Makes you wonder if anybody from the store controls the product descriptions. :P

I apologize for that, it was a horrible typo that should read Usage Restrictions: You are free to use these in any form as long as it doesn't involve the direct resell of any items in this pack. If you wish to use these character settings in any artwork for commercial gain there is only one restriction and that is you send me a link to the product and/or send a copy of the image to jstevenson@slavemonkies.com so I can check out your work. I'm a fan of poser art too you know. I basically just want to see the work you do with the product that's all I ask and appologize for the error.

"This pisses me off to no end as well. The guy has already been compensated. Maybe he just wants to see his stuff in use but that shouldn't be a restriction. When you buy a new car nobody tells you there are certain roads you can't drive on with it." - Mason I agree with you and that was not my intent. It is obvious that I'm new at selling items in the Market Place as this is only my second item and the first was not that successful. When applying to the store I read the list of what needs to be in a readme and Usage Restrictions were there. Not wanting to get the product denied and have to resend I thought I'd just put my request in there as well, which I obviously mistyped horribly as I stated above. My intent on this was only to be shown some of the work that is the result of the product. I mean who doesn't like to see that what they did was liked and successful. It was never my intent to cause such a problem and I agree making it a restriction wasn't the clearest of ideas I had and I will change that once again. Usage Restrictions: Free to use in any form as long as it doesn't involve the direct reselling of any items in this pack. Requests: Please send me links to work you do using this pack as I would always love to see them jstevenson@slavemonkies.com I do hope that this will clear up this matter and I am always open to suggestions if it doesn't. I am new to the selling game and bound to make mistakes, but I guarantee I'll fix them. Thanks to those that have brought this to my attention.

"I think a lot of these artists, especially the new ones, just want to use your art (from their mesh) as part of their portfolio."

Could be something like that. I know if I saw something of mine used in something very public I wouldn't hesitate to point out if I made a texture, etc. Nothing wrong with that.
That said, such a restriction isn't possible in a product in the marketplace because it contradicts the marketplace license. It would be better as a request and is entirely reasonable as such. But not as a restriction.

...Shirtless :)

Good luck with your items whitemexican; I inadvertantly step in it all the time too.

Isnt this 'Usage Restrictions: You are free to use these in any form as long as it doesn't involve the direct resell of any items in this pack. If you wish to use these character settings in any artwork for commercial gain there is only one restriction and that is you send me a link to the product and/or send a copy of the image to jstevenson@slavemonkies.com so I can check out your work. I'm a fan of poser art too you know.' still breaching this?? 'You must agree to include the license exactly as found below in your archive file. You are not allowed to make any changes to the license. This is to protect both you and the buyers from unscrupulous licenses. You cannot supply your own custom license at this time.' Sorry Dont wanna sound picky but this is a pet peeve i got stung with once and it pisses me off big time. I see a non comercial blurb on a retail product now i never return to that merchants store.

Read his next post. Good on ya, whitemex.

I don't think that if an artist makes soemthing for FREE that he HAS to allow others to use it comercially. The artist is giving it away free out of their love for the community, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever that they should do that hard work for free and that others can then profit from it. If they are selling the product, then that's their compensation... but otherwise, I feel it is up to the artist who made it to decide. If I was releasing a freebie, and worked hard on it (as I had a bunch of them some time ago at 3D-CC), I would be outraged if I had spent my time and energy making soemthing FREE for the community and then saw someone else turning a profit for my hard work while I sat there getting the shaft.

While it's true that a merchant may not change the license, they can include an addendum to it as long as it's in plain view of the customer before purchase. They must also be aware that this could effect their sales.

But why would you care if someone else made a profit using your prop as long as they didn't redistribute it or seel the prop itself? I suspect most of the "non-commercial only' people would change their attitude if they were offered a piece of the action...

"While it's true that a merchant may not change the license, they can include an addendum to it as long as it's in plain view of the customer before purchase."

True but addendums shouldn't contradict the marketplace license and commercial restriction and mandatory links do contradict the license. Buyers need to see consistancy with all products or they'll stop buying here.
Requesting to see images is a whole different thing and it looks like this is what whitemexican meant by it. That's perfectly reasonable and understandable.

We just DID the freestuff argument. Do we have to go through it again so soon? Every time we do, people on both sides explain why it matters to them, get ignored, tempers start to rise, insults start flying, and another freestuff provider leaves. Are we done yet?

::This non-commercial thing also pisses me off in freestuff too. I can understand someone not wanting a prop taken from freestuff and resold and its ownership claimed by someone else (like someone did with my stuff at props guild by putting my free items behind a pay wall) but to restrict the use of a prop in a render I think is silly especially when its an add on to someone else's stuff like a texture.:: I agree with that 100%. I never download those items. However, that said, anyone has the right to restrict or not their items and I have the choice on whether I'll download it or not. As to the default setting in the free stuff area, I had been gone for a long time from the community when this was put in effect and was pointed out recently that my items were listed for non-commercial use only. They have been changed now. What I especially dislike is when some does an add on for a free stuff item and puts it in the market place. That just bugs me, and doesn't seem right. ::We just DID the freestuff argument. Do we have to go through it again so soon? Every time we do, people on both sides explain why it matters to them, get ignored, tempers start to rise, insults start flying, and another freestuff provider leaves. Are we done yet? :: Haven't you learned by now that this place is just the "same old, same old". Anyhow, I didn't get a chance to participate in the last one. ;)

"What I especially dislike is when some does an add on for a free stuff item and puts it in the market place. That just bugs me, and doesn't seem right." Uh-oh. I've openeed this line of argument in the past and gotten eviscerated. I agree with you, buth you're on yer own

"What I especially dislike is when some does an add on for a free stuff item and puts it in the market place. That just bugs me, and doesn't seem right." "Uh-oh. I've openeed this line of argument in the past and gotten eviscerated. I agree with you, buth you're on yer own "

I guess you guys must HATE DAZ then, eh? They do the very same thing every other week. ;-0 (hee-hee)

"What I especially dislike is when some does an add on for a free stuff item and puts it in the market place. That just bugs me, and doesn't seem right." When someone does it for their own product, like if you make a clothing item for freestuff, but then sell textures for it in the MP; I think that's fine. On the other hand, people selling add-ons for items that others have created for free just seems very, very wrong. If the seller has an agreement with the creator of the model, it would be nice to see acknowledgement of that (ex: add-on for creator's object by merchant, in cooperation with creator), otherwise, it just seems unethical to me.

Am I gonna get flamed for this? I see nothing wrong with making a package for sale for something that is or was at one time a free item. Packages are a lot of work to put together, as most here well know. It's not always worth it to the maker time-wise to make such a package for free, but if someone feels they can contribute and get something back for their time, where is the fault in that? Some of these based on free items packages are quite a huge investment time-wise and those people who make them may feel that they need to compensate for the time they spent. So why did they choose to base it on a free item? Why does one painter paint a bear and another a city street? It's based on taste. That free item may have been just their cup of tea. Let's not forget that we're talking about artists here. Artists are prone to work on what inspires them, and in some cases, what inspires them is a well made free item. Should they not receive compensation for time that they could not afford to spend otherwise? I don't have any products based on freebees and do now know personally anyone who does. This is just my opinion from packages I've seen whose authors I can't remember. Some of them, I recall, were very nice packages.

Oh, let me add my agreement to Momcat's that I think the maker of the free item should be contacted and sought permission from.

Sams3d has the following requiremnt for use of any PURCHASED items. If I'm purchasing the items, why the restrictions/requirements? "Terms of Use - You bought it, or downloaded it from our Free section, it is yours to USE commercially or personally in any animation or image gallery, we ask that you give SAM'S 3D credit for the construction of the models, including all texture maps, any morphs or derivative of our models, same goes for all models in the freebies section." Some clients list the artist's name, but wouldn't like two artist's (unless they are on the contract), because it puts the copyright ownership of the art in question. Is this a new policy, or something that has been around awhile?

Well, I dislike the practice of coat-tailing on free items, because it takes advantage of the generosity of the person who made the free item. I would NEVER spend money on an add-on for a free item.

That's your decision, Mosca. All I'm saying is that someday I might spend money on a quality addon designed for a free item. Heck, I might make a free item and then sell a package designed as an addon for it someday. It's a common promotional method. The customer gets a quality item for free and they can purchase some additional items for that item if they so choose. If a merchant gets permission from the maker of the free item to make an enhancing package for sale, I also see nothing unethical about that. It doesn't negate the original creator of the free item's generosity for there to be enhancements made and sold by another. People still benefit from the free item whether they choose to buy the addons or not. How is that trodding on the generosity of the creator of the free item, especially if they got the original creator's permission? It's not like these packages are causing customers to have to pay for the item again that they already got for free. They just have the choice and option to pay to add on to it. It would be nice if we could all afford to make everything free, but most of us can't, because we have to pay back to our real lives for the time we've invested. Speaking of time invested, I think I'm going to make this the last post I add to this thread about this. Please don't feel offended if I don't respond again. Cheers. :o)