After the collision is fixed, after the hair collision finally works, after we finally get OpenGL and multiple undos I don't think it would be terrible dificult to integrate a terrain generator. I mean the capability seems to be already there with firefly displacement maps and reflections. How dificult can it be to implement another room for this purpose, not dificult at all I would say? In fact I wouldn't mind to pay for a Pro Pak with Vue/Bryce functionality inside of Poser if it is packed with goodies like diferent plants, skies, just like Bryce and Vue.

One day, there will be a program that does everything: Poser, Bryce, Vue, Mimic, World Builder, Photoshop, Rhino all in one. I'll be first in line... ;)

Me too, integration is the name of the game. Give me a package that does it all over one that uses plugins every day now. I think Curious Labs is going in the right direction. The stuff DAZ posted looks really nice specially since they are using OpenGL but I read they want to go with plugins for the cloth and hair. Makes me think of 3D Studio Max vs Maya. Still the race is on so we will see which one comes on top. Curious Labs have the lead, I hope they use this temporary advantage finish fixing Poser 5 and keep improving their package.

Mostly, I find that most 3d programs need better composition tools: real independant layers, beter lights and camera presets with better effects generated by both, better guides (perspective etc) and planes... And I'm missing something, can't put my finger on it... I just don't feel confortable sometimes in these apps. Any ideas on composition tool? Q

For now I'll be happy with another room with VueBryce functionality, just that, leave the modeling to 3D Studio Max, Maya, Rhino etc.

I quite disagree with Simon above. Trying to make a program that does everything usually ends up meaning it does everything badly. Specialisation of function is far more efficient.

Tell that to Maya & Softimage. And I wouldn't want a Poser that can do Photoshop or Rhino or CAD, if we get so broad you are correct then but Hair, Cloth, Landscape generation should be safely incorporated in the realm of Poser.

Plugging are the way to go... no question in my mind.. at all.. why pay for Dynamic clothing.. if I'm never going to use it.. I've got P5.. I paid an extra $100.. for stuff I'm never going to use.. and the stuff I wanted wasn't even there.. (proper lighting) .I want to pick and choose.. It's like Daz telling us... you want Vicky... well in order to buy Vicky.. you've got to buy the entire millennium family. makes no sense to me... Nick

The integration between plugins is never as good as when it is part of the aplication, at least that's what I've heard everybody that uses Maya say, I'm a 3D Studio user not Maya and even my coleagues accept this. Whenever a high end feature makes it into the core program its always a big hurrah!

I agree there are problems when a program does too much. But wouldn't it be nice to have ONE set of interface quirks to learn? ;)

Until they get a better lighting system, I wouldn't worry about terrians. Besides you can fake terrains now with the ground plain and magnets/deformers.

Until they make it easier to move things around too. Poser is really ridiculous for scenebuilding.

That's true about the lights but imagine how nice would it be if the colision worked as it should and you could use the walk generation in conjunction to this. Besides having a library of nature and trees at the click of the mouse that look as realistic as Vue/Bryce or being able to have lakes, ponds of water etc. getting the shadows of your figures and reflecting them would be a dream come true.

Like, alamanos, I'd go with plug-ins too. - less taxing on the lower-end systems (only use what you need) - more flexibility and expandability without disrupting program code (e.g., avoid patching that would eventually result in a less than optimum system...which would make it hell to upgrade) - similarly, more frequent upgrades which means capability could be brought on-line faster as new technologies are developed - there's no reason you couldn't build a common interface in this scheme

Another nightmare of plugin architecture, every time the core application is upgraded you are left behind without all the functionality of the plugins until they all start to catch up.

How about RuntimePythonposerScriptsCreatePropsfractalTerrain.py ? Write an improved version of that and become rich...

Stewer, I'm very unfamiliar with Poser scripts. Does that comes with Poser, if not where can I get it?

It'll take WAY more than a terrain generator to make Vue or Bryce redundant. Poser would have to be totally restructured to make building a complex scene and moving both objects and cameras around as effective or easy as in Bryce, and the lighting would have to be totally changed too, to give equivalent results. Better to just add Poser-type figure manipulation to Bryce, which already has so many other things that Poser lacks.

To add to Allen9's comments, it'd need a ray tracer as well. It's what gives Bryce/Vue it's distinctive "look".

Ugh, found fractal terrain.py, not useful at all right now.

Plugins work well if the system is designed well from the beginning. Most software developed today uses some form of components. If you have an accounting program and need some spreadsheet functionality, you probably buy a spreadsheet plugin, not write the code from scratch into the program. With a good base architecture, only a major change should necessitate upgrading existing components. A lot of small companies simply don't have experts in every area. Poser exports RIB files. If you can find a really great Renderman renderer why try to do your own, make it a plugin. Photoshop certainly doesn't seem to have suffered from having a plugin architecture. Indeed, it's so successful that Corel and others have adopted the standard, making more, better and less expensive tools available for everyone. If you start out determined to support a lot of legacy code and then try to add plugins on top of it, then the chances for problems are increased.

I have to say that there's no one stop shopping store. Not even high end packages like SoftImage. Each program has its shining points. No program has a failure, merely extras that do a quick and dirty job that other specialty purchases shine at. Lets take a stroll down history lane. Metacreations kicked this whole thing off for us. Modeler ... InfiniD, Carrara, RayDream Scene Builder ... Bryce Model Painter ... Painter 3d People poser ... Poser Animation Builder ... Bryce, Poser, Dance Studio Web ... LogoMotion Postwork .. Painter Classic, Kai's Goo, Kai's Soap, Painter Classic and the list goes on. MetaC had a goldmine, but alas, it blew up. Corel bought Bryce, Painter, and Kai. CL bought Poser. Eovia bought Carrara and many products went to the wind. ViewPoint, the successor to MetaC took a very different direction. Had MetaC sayed together, we would hope for integration of all these fine products. However, we do benefit from the new talent. Bryce 5 is off to a good start. Poser 5 is downright mind boggling. Carrara 2 has radiosity and many other enhancements. Because Corel, CL, and Eovia etc, have not gotten together to realize the integration dream, a market is open for outsiders like vue and LW to perform some of the integration functions. If you look at what each of the purchasers have accomplished, my vote goes to CL for the most progress by a long shot. Who knows, maybe some day Conan and Cooper and Eovia will have lunch. And maybe not and each company will move away from the MetaC interface to more traditional ones. Time will tell. And that's the state of the nation.