Not sure I have seen this item discussed. Let's say two or three people decided to join together to write a book (ultimately to be submitted). There seems to be a lot of stuff to consider: (a) How does one settle artistic disagreements? Should someone be given "final sayso"? (b) How is it divided up? By chapter? By events? Characters? Or should one be the writer and the other(s) be editors with change suggestions? (c) Legal issues? Contracts? Payment(s)? (assuming book would be published) (d) How hard is it when the people can sit together as opposed to using only the internet? Or telephone? (e) Anyone know of any examples of successful collaborations? These are just a few ideas/concerns that popped into my head. I suspect there are more...LOL. Any thoughts?

Hiya Chuck, If there are no intelligent and informed replies to this thread, I guess there is only one way to find out. The hard way. :oP - M

Attached Link: http://yukidoke.org/~mako/projects/collablit/

Hey Chuck - That's a pretty broad and complex topic. I know there are lots of collaborative efforts in the world of fantasy and science fiction, and suspect the same is true in other genre. Robert Asprin's Thieve's World is a good example, as nu-be points out. Also Anne McCaffery and Marion Zimmer Bradley both engaged collaborators in their latter years. I suspect the exact nature of the collaboration varies with each situation, and in the case of well established authors like McCaffery and Bradley, the big name gets the final say. I did find this paper (in PDF if interested) on the web: Models of Historical Literary Collaboration. The short description of it says "This short paper (~6 pages) explores the nature of literary collaboration employed in the creation of the King James Bible and the short stories of Raymond Carver." I co-wrote a technical paper once with two co-authors. The way that worked was one of us (me) was designated the primary author while the other two read, edited, and filled in on areas of their particular expertise. I would write up a draft, send it to them, they would edit it (using strike through fonts or changing font color) then I would re-write and resubmit. It was an iterative process. It also helped that we all sat within 10 feet of each other and could sit down at a moments notice and hash things out. I think a similar thing can be done over the web via e-mail and chat sessions. Also, the Wings User Manual was very much a collaborative effort. We set up a UM Project over at the Wings forum and started a thread for each command. Everyone could submit their take on things. We sent out requests for specific info (tutorials, for example) and when we got replies, I had to incorporate them into the whole. It could not have been done without the help of everyone who participated. Hope this ramble helps a little. jon

I really think it depends on the authors and how they like to write. I'm strong on plot and character, but my descriptions need work. I might want to find an author who prefers to work on the descriptive end and go from there. Another possibility is for the 2 authors to work on the plot outline together and then take the sections that most interest them and start doing them, then exchanging after the first draft to blend the styles together, as well as make sure the minor details are consistant. I did hear about 2 well known mystery authors who co-wrote a book, where one did the first half, and the other the second half. I don't remember the review of the book (nor did I read the book) but one of the two authors said it was the most miserable experience of his life. He grew to hate the other author by the end of the book. As for creative differences, I think it depends on how the collaboration was formed. If one author is the primary writer, then most of the time they should probably have final say. If one is acting more as the impartial editor, then maybe they should have more say. You even may want to consider a third party, such as a mutual friend, to look at the disagreement and give their opinion. Hope it helps! (And any hints on whom you're collaborating with, what you're writing, and how long before we see it in print?)

There is a couple of friends of mine that has published some works, and they always work together... They say they find the collaboration helpful while writing dialogues, when they act one character each... They say that often the other came out with thoughts and hints that the words said by a character can be read differently from what the actual writer intended, and that usually this tecnique is helpful to have the dialogues more realistic than the ones written by a single person... They have not a main author who has the last word... At least they state that their work is basically on the same plane... Since there are some years they go that way I think that for them it works... This just to refer some experience... I think that it mostly depends on the relationship you can establish with the other author. To tell the whole truth I must say another thing: I don't like very much their way of writing, but I don't know if this disliking comes from their writing togeher, or if they both have a style I don't like very much... (Just to let you know I'm still alive, and always reading the writer forum, even if my difficulties in writing in English keep me from writing comment or posting something from me...)

jgeorge: I beleive you have received praise already for your English ability. I think your English is very good and needs no apology. By the arrangement of some of your words, it appears it is a second language to you...but by not means difficult to read and understand. Cres: Interesting comments. Plausible idea on a third party, sort of an arbitrator. Or if more than two people involved, someone desiginated with that "task". "(And any hints on whom you're collaborating with, what you're writing, and how long before we see it in print?)" Yeah, RIGHT! (...in my best Bill Cosby voice!) jstro: WELL, after browsing your link, I must say I'm a bit awed by your detail. Ugh! Also, interesting application of collaboration...the manual you directed. Other thoughts: Collaboration would take more planning, I think. For example, a single author might write, modify, delete or add a character, shift the plot, etc. "on the fly"...meaning as the mood or need occured. This person may have just had a general feeling of a plot, several characters, and jumped right in to writing. But, with a collaboration, it would seem a general outline would need to be set. Then a detailed outline with detailed descriptions of major characters agreed upon. For a novel of, say, 250 pages, I would expect this detailed outline to cover plot, red herrings, introductions of characters, personalities, major clues, removal of characters (evil grin), etc. I would envision 10-15 pages. THEN, perhaps "actual" writing would begin after this document had been agreed upon. With various tasks of the group decided upon. This, of course, only addresses the actual development of the manuscript. Another item I mentioned above would be legal issues. Of course, this would assume a serious endeavor is being made and the ultimate goal is to publish and get paid. Who would own the work? Pay distribution. Credits. Should their be a legal entity formed? What if someone dropped out? Etc.... Finally, in closing, someone once said the best way to increase the amount of time a task took to complete was to form a committee to do it...LOL. I wonder if collaborative efforts increase time to submittal.

Chuck, I wasn't apologizing for my English... I was apologizing for not letting you know I enjoy your writing in more proper places (like under the written pieces)... ;-)

Well, to add my 2 cents worth... Note my answers are in ALL CAPS. I'm not "shouting", just want them to stand out: (a) How does one settle artistic disagreements? Should someone be given "final sayso"? ONE PERSON ALWAYS HAS FINAL SAY-SO. THE SIMPLE FACT IS, ONE PERSON WILL HAVE A FAR MORE DEVELOPED CONCEPT. NOTHING IS EVER TRULY MUTUAL. FOR EXAMPLE, ONE PERSON INVENTS THE WORLD AND THE BASIC SETUP, AND THEY BOTH FLESH IT OUT TOGETHER. THE PERSON WHO FIRST CAME UP WITH THE WORLD GETS THE LAST WORD. IF YOU HAVE A LACK OF HIERARCHY, YOU'RE SUNK. OF COURSE, IN A PERFECT WORLD YOU RARELY NEED TO USE IT. (b) How is it divided up? By chapter? By events? Characters? Or should one be the writer and the other(s) be editors with change suggestions? DEPENDS ON YOUR ARRANGEMENT. MY COAUTHOR AND I DIVIDED IT UP RANDOMLY AT FIRST AND TALKED ON THE PHONE A LOT BEFORE REALIZING IT WAS HOPELESS AND PAUSING TO CREATE AN OUTLINE, WHICH WE THEN DIVIDED UP BY CHAPTERS OR, IN SOME CASES, SCENES. THE KEY HERE IS TO DO ENOUGH REWRITING AND EDITING TO WHERE YOU CAN NO LONGER TELL WHERE ONE WRITER BEGINS AND THE OTHER ENDS. IN MY CASE, I HANDLED THE REWRITES AND MY COAUTHOR HANDLED EDITORIAL INPUT. AGAIN, WHATEVER WORKS. (c) Legal issues? Contracts? Payment(s)? (assuming book would be published) IM ME AND I CAN SEND YOU A SAMPLE COAUTHOR AGREEMENT. THIS MUST BE SPELLED OUT IN ADVANCE AND MODIFIED IF NEED BE. REMEMBER, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS A BUSINESS LIKE ANY OTHER. (d) How hard is it when the people can sit together as opposed to using only the internet? Or telephone? NO REAL DIFFERENCE. IN FACT, I THINK DISTANCE IS A GOOD THING SO YOU DON'T SPEND ALL YOUR TIME GABBING INSTEAD OF PRODUCING. (e) Anyone know of any examples of successful collaborations? WWW.SARCHA.COM - CHECK OUT THE SAMPLES OF FORWARD UNTO YESTERDAY AND STORM OVER EDEN BY CLICKING THE BOOKS LINK IN THE MAIN MENU. NOTE THESE HAVE NOT YET BEEN THROUGH FINAL PUBLISHER EDITS JUST YET, BUT I THINK YOU'LL LIKE WHAT YOU SEE!

I just noticed your reply on this topic, Anthony. (Guess it must have been one of those times that didn't generate an "ebot". Heck, when I "jump" in to long threads, I rarely get notice of a reply to it. Anyway, I wanted to say thanks for the input. Your information sounds, well, sound (grin).