"One tends to get what one gives." As I said.... please do not post a negative response - base your responses on the software. If you can't do this, then please simply do not respond. Facts and opinions about THE SOFTWARE have been requested, not about other users. Thank You, Dave Williams Megalodon

Bonnyclump,

I can understand your disappointment and sympathize, but I believe that the constant negativity has been the problem. Could you for instance list everything that you believe are problems with Vue/VuePro in one post? I would be most interested to see the list and perhaps others can respond CONSTRUCTIVELY rather than negatively to the post.

If we have this comprehensive list and there is a consensus, then perhaps E-On will begin to address these specific issues. So far in the list, I only see that it is impossible to render starfields over a network. My question would be: What happens when you try? I would seriously like to know the details.

And everyone else, regardless of your feelings towards any individuals posting here (specifically Bonnyclump),please do not post a negative response - base your responses on the software. If you think it is user error, let that possibility be known. I would really like to keep this on a professional level and acquire a detailed list of problems.

Thanks!

Dave Williams
Megalodon

Okay....

Obviously I must have worded my questions in a not-so-constructive manner. I apologize to ALL and meant no disrespect to ANYONE -including the moderator Agiel! :)

Wabe: "If this software is as bad as you imply..." I really don't see where my post implies that I think that Vue is bad software. It isn't. I like it and use it. Where Vue4 Pro is concerned, I (IMO) that it really is not ready for prime time in the Pro sector. But hey, that's my opinion and I am not ranting about E-On not fixing the LW import texture problem - I am merely stating a fact. And... you are most definitely correct - attacking the moderator and/or other people here is most definitely NOT what we need here!

"You ask us to beta-test for you so that you can safe money? Why should i do that?" Well... yes and no. You are implying that I have no right to wait to see what the problems may be? And are you also implying that if you find problems with the software that you will keep it to yourself? I doubt that. If there is a problem you will want it to be fixed. Many people here use Vue all of the time. I do not. I use it when I have a job that will require it. I do not have the time to "beta test" software so I use these forums as a guide. Is this wrong to do? I don't think so.

Petshoo: "This guy bonnyclump has been flooding this Vue forum with negative posts for a while now." Okay, I've only checked the first page of the forum and noticed these few posts. I wanted an unbiased and current opinion of the pros and cons of the software - particularly the cons since these are usually items glossed over by those who really like the software and often overlook the shortcomings.

Sams3D: Agreed. is it a problem with the software or user error/lack of knowledge! And this is one of the reasons to have this forum. I pretty much agree with your every point. Thanks!

Agiel: Not a problem. I'm just trying to ascertain precisely what is wrong with the software at this moment. Believe me, I am NOT trying to stir any pot with negativity - I would just like an honest and unbiased opinion. I will not take ANY opinion as the total truth concerning the software - but I do want to be made aware of it. Thanks!

Krimpr: Thanks for the support! :) Hopefully E-On will address all of the issues AND update Ozone2 soon. I would love to see skies like those of the upcoming Terragen in Ozone.

Wabe: Using the word "censorship" in my post was (IMO) an appropriate choice. I am sorry that you are sensitive to the word, but knowing that you are German would in no way change my mind to use the word. There is censorship all over the world TODAY, and because someone brings it up in a forum where you would rather not hear it, you get upset? I'm truly sorry you feel that way. It was not directed at all (or ANY) Germans and when writing the post it never crossed my mind. Should it have? I don't think so. If that were the case, everyone everywhere would have to censor everything they wrote/said here for fear it might negatively affect someone else. Nothing would ever get said. And... there were no racial slurs implied in my post and none were intended.

Djeser: Actually no - not just Bonnyclumps' opinion. I should have worded that differently and requested ALL opinions. I most definitely stand corrected on that point. I'm hoping that Vue5 Pro addresses all of the shortcomings of Vue4 Pro. As to the texture import from LW - that may very well have been fixed in Vue4 Pro. I haven't had the time to check it out. Hopefully it has - that was one of the main points that kept us from using Vue4 Pro. This problem was sent to E-On and the first two service releases did not fix it. I know that there are other problems, but when something important (to us) like this is not repaired, it makes us unhappy and we can't use the software. :( I'm hoping that Vue5 Pro will be great and that we will buy it - but as I said in my first post, we will wait to see the problems and make our decision(s) from that point. We shall see.

I apologize to all who thought I was "stirring the pot" for no reason - I was NOT trolling and only want truthful realistic opinions. I felt that since Bonnyclump was voicing negativity, I might be able to find out exactly WHAT he/she was talking about and if there were any truth to the points. That's all.

I would appreciate ANY opinions (negative AND positive) regarding problems with the current incarnation of Vue4 Pro as well as any with the new Vue5 standard.

I am NOT here to rant at E-On - I think that the Vue line is a great addition and I find that it's the easiest landscape-making software around! I want it to improve AND address all of the shortcomings. I really WANT to buy Vue5 Pro. Only time (and this forum) will tell.

Thank you all for your time - again, it IS appreciated!

Dave Williams
Megalodon

Dear R Hatch, I must sincerely apologize for violating your patent. I am hereby admitting guilt and signing over the moon to you to do with as you will. You may collect it at any time. Although I believe 1 billion pesos IS rounder, I left them in my other pants pocket - sorry. ;) Megalodon Dear Tori, Not to worry, you finally got me back into my complaining mode. :) It's been way too long since I've used it! And thanks for posting - as R Hatch said above, I too, would not have known (until much later) had you posted in "the correct" forum since I NEVER go there! I have VERY limited time and only peruse certain forums.

Gee.... what else can I find around here to complain about? Let me see......people find way too many IDIOTIC things to complain about because they have NOTHING better to do with precioous time. That's a good one. And how about... I wish people would stop using the word "PoserFusion" because it really irks me...... or..... Just give me a break. Grow up and find something constructive to do with your time. Remember the saying: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all? Well... I guess I didn't since I "complained" above. :) Personally I'm glad CL posted, but then... I must be insane because that's against the RULES..... :) :) Oh well... back to WORKING in 3D and having fun AND making money. Megalodon PS. I must remember to make a note to complain about something tomorrow.....

LeFrog, I thought that the plugin was only for XFrog3.5 and below. XFrog4 is currently only a plugin for C4D. Is this wrong or have things changed? We already have the plugin for LW and have used it - with XFrog3.5. Stewart said they would be working on the LW XFrog4 plugin but no time frame was given. Megalodon

Actually.... we have both, but use Onyx TreePro more. Why? It's significantly easier to create your trees with TreePro. TreePro makes primarily only trees - broadleaf, conifer, palms and bamboo. You can also alter it to create bushes but it's main strength is trees. XFrog is a VERY good program and gives you alot more control over a great many parameters. Side by side right out of the box, you'll find it easier for a novice to create a tree in TreePro than to do one in XFrog. If you want to create a specific sort of tree with specific sort of branches and fruit or... you'll find XFrog to be the obvious winner. This is of course my opinion - but we HAVE used both programs. Supposedly the next version of TreePro will have wind/animation capabilities that can be easily exported to Lightwave - something that XFrog already has in the Pro version. Unfortunately XFrog4 is only available as a plugin to C4D - we only use Lightwave and they (Greenworks)have been rather sluggish in creating the LW XFrog plugin. Hopefully they will have it soon! Megalodon

I don't believe that the definitions of OEM software listed here are entirely accurate. I can buy OEM versions of Office and XP or 2000 from VERY reputable sellers (www.tcwo.com - www.newegg.com) and I can put them on ANY one machine. I have bought the OEM version of XP and put it on one of my machines and registering it was NO problem. The same with Windows2000. Unless of course I am not undertanding what is being said here. Megalodon

DMM, that's a VERY good idea! You really should tell E-On about that one. That would definitely help out alot and as they increaee "their" knowledge base of good hardware they'll be able to update the list for ALL to see. Good One! Megalodon

The only company that I've know to do that sort of thing (mail bug fixes) is Digital Workshop (UK-based) with Opus Pro - a multimedia creation program. Twice in the last two years! It was VERY refreshing! I think that perhaps they (E-On) should come out and say precisely WHAT their paid-for-support program would entail - what it covers and does not cover. It would certainly narrow down what people would get angry at! :) Again, I apologize for apparently coming on a tad too strong. When everyone stops pointing fingers (including myself) and starts adding to the debate CONSTRUCTIVELY, things will get better. It would have been better if E-On had taken care of most of the bugs FIRST and THEN brought up the "paid-for-tech-support" question. Then the people here would not be so... passionate with their responses! Megalodon

Actually... it was others in this thread that kept going OFF of the subject thread whereas I tried to keep it ON topic.
I DO apologize for lumping you in the category of "incessant complainers" since you say you are not. Sorry about that!
My point was that I really don't care how many people are complaining about buggy software - that wasn't the topic. Stop complaining about the software and answer the question OR ask a relevant question. Such as... "Hey Lynn, do you mean we would have to pay for support for problems with the software that may be bugs or that we could ask questions about how to do certain things that perhaps aren't clearly explained in the manual?" But no... we have primarily people saying that "We paid enough to be your free beta testors and I sure won't pay for tech support" or "Get your product smoothed out and we'll talk" - NOT helpful.

And Chuck, why don't you take a look at ALL of my posts on this thread ABOVE the Flycatcher post? They are perfectly ON TOPIC. I am just highly annoyed at people who won't stay on the topic and vent on the software - that DOESN'T HELP ANYONE! So if these other people want to go off topic, then I'll address their replies accordingly.

You said: "What I DID give an opinion about (when I wasn't explaining my apology) was releasing a buggy product and then asking how people felt about paying to have problems solved. Which, by the way, several other people echoed (yet I don't see you singling them out and labeling them as an incessant compainer)." MY POINT (which Lynn did NOT clarify) is that we don't know precisely what the paid for support means - you automatically took it to mean problem-solving for buggy software. I do not. I guess until Lynn clarifies this point (if she ever does, even though I specifically asked her to) you nor I will know preciesly WHAT paid for support is. But to ASSUME it's to help with buggy software doesn't help and only fuels the fires of discontentment. Correct? And I feel the same about those "other people" that "echoed" the same or similar sentiment. It's primarily just anger at their problems and NOTHING constructive.

Megalodon

Well Chuck... You obviously don't use Lightwave and you have no idea the number of complaints and problems that came with Lightwave 6.0. There were ALOT of problems and Newtek did correct most of them - but it took quite a bit of time. Complacent? Yes, the software (Vue4 Pro) is buggy, but if you actually believe (as I stated above) that they can test their software on EVERY SINGLE CONFIGURATION now available you're out of your mind. It's just not possible. And by the way, the staff at E-On is quite a bit smaller than Newtek! It's NOT complacency, it's making an assessment of the real world and understanding that E-On does not want to release buggy software, it's just that they can't test for every contingency. And the sooner you and flycatcher realize this and move to help instead of complain incessantly, the faster the fixes will come. Everyone has their own interpretation of "what Lynn said," and I am just one person who gives E-On the benefit of the doubt. Pouncing on them does not help the situation. Try to help them solve the problem - or if you're not into that, sit back and wait for the fixes. You'll be lucky if you get them. Newtek released a free upgrade from 6.0 to 6.5 with alot of fixes and more functionality - but there were still bugs that weren't fixed. Then there was the paid upgrade to 7.0 and they stopped working on fixing 6.0. So those who didn't want to upgrade were still left with some of the bugs of 6.0. Hopefully E-On will do better! Instead of discussing the item by pointing fingers and yelling and saying how bad E-On is while being sarcastic, try to discuss it in a calm and reasonable manner - tooo many people just can't seem to do that! Megalodon

So Flycatcher.... ...the software you worked on was as graphically complicated as Vue4 Pro? And you tested your software on EVERY conceivable machine configuration? I have a friend who has been in software development for the last 20 years (to the present) and he apparently well understands that software is becoming increasingly more sophisticated and it is impossible to test all possible configurations. A database program is one thing, a visual program such as Vue is entirely different. Try programming something like that to be compatible with every configuration BEFORE you release it. If you say you can you would be lying. This is NOT ten years ago when your choices for processor/graphics card/etc. were alot more limited and developers had it quite a bit easier to test their product. Perhaps we should get a little perspective? Megalodon

Hi Lynn!

You're right, Lightwave is about $1000 (give or take) more expensive than Vue4 Pro - but it can also do significantly ALOT more than Vue4 Pro. There may be some padding in there - though neither of us can be certain - but I doubt very much. Then again, who knows?

I won't address any of the bug issues with Vue4 Pro here at all - everyone else here is doing an abundantly adequate job. I'm sorry that this is coming off as a "venting session" here for alot of users. It would certainly by ALOT more constructive and helpful if those who do have problems could state them non-emotionally.

I am a professional 3D artist and would like to use Vue4 Pro in production - I see quite a few areas where this would offer an alternative look to what we are producing at this time. That being said, I cannot use it in a production environment because of the texture resizing problem. Vue4 Pro WILL be great piece of software but it is by no means as complicated to learn as Lightwave. Part of that "problem" is that E-On has made their software VERY intuitive. When I need to figure out something, it "should" be in the manual. And I must say that any one or company that bases their final output WITHOUT knowing their software is asking for trouble - and.... it's not professional. You NEVER base your project on what the software developer claims their product can do. You FIRST test out the product and prove to yourself it will work BEFORE ANY project is slated to rely on the software.

Anyway Lynn, I think there are a couple of very helpful comments here nontheless. Revamping the website with a better technical support scheme is a VERY good idea. A better way of handling current technical support may help to keep on top of things.

Everything else aside, I'm truly looking forward to Vue4 Pro being a valuable part of our arsenal. Its potential is incredible and I hope that E-On backs it 100% producing a rock-solid piece of software we can use in the professional environment. Once that has been accomplished, you will receive significantly less antagonistic responses from your user base. I'm really looking forward to it!

Thanks Lynn!

Megalodon

Okay.... let's simmer down a tad. We need Lynn to clarify exactly what this "Paid for Tech Support Program" would entail before we get irate. And then if it warrants it we'll get irate! :) My first thought is that this is NOT a good thing, but as hard as it is to believe... I have been wrong in the past! ;) Please let's NOT turn this into a nasty shouting match. Let's try to be constructive and have a discussion in a (somewhat) civilized manner. After all, we all want bug-free software and increasingly better versions of Vue in the future! Megalodon