On the way home, I tried to think of what it is that we could do to help mediate this. There's a lot of mud flying in both directions, but it seems to boil down to 3 major stumbling blocks: 1) Maybe its time the helpful poser community wasn't so helpful. For some reason, whatever is said by a member of either forum somehow warps and becomes something that Jack, Willow or Ian has said. For the most part, it's the users who are fanning the flames that we all want to put out. As a 1st step, maybe we could stop attacking one another and clear the field a bit. 2) On the Rend/Edgenet sideline, it seems the major sticking point is remarks made from the PFO that they see as damaging personally and to their business identity. I can understand where the last thing you want is to have your image and integrity brought into question. 3) Although there seem to be several things on the PFO sideline, the biggest thing seems to be what they see as the hijacking of the PFO identity(the domain). This is also something that I can understand. Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but it feels to me like if we could get these 3 settled, we have a chance to stop a lot of the ugliness. I think we can handle the 1st one ourselves, but the PFO or Renderosity will have to make the 1st move on last 2. What, exactly, is the sticking point with giving poserforum.com back? It seems to me that everyone agrees the name was created by Willow. Jack has even said he offered to give it to them(though it appears the conditions for that, like most things in this mess, have 2 sides to it). --Continued--

Roy: You don't have to list your accomplishments for me, I am well aware of them and in awe of what you have done for the community. I am also very grateful for your programs. My comments were not directed at you or any single individual - if you felt they were, then I'm truly sorry. They were directed at the business entity EdgeNet Media. If you can tell me that Edgenet cares about Poser as you do, then I will amend my belief in that area. Jeff: I'm sorry, but a single e-mail does not tell me anything. I have no context for it. I'd need to see a lot more of the communication between the two parties leading up to it. I think that anyone who has ever worked in a large business organization knows that it is almost always the phonecalls that lead up to the "e-mail" that tell the real story. As for Willow's comments, from the context I -originally- saw them in, I believe (there's that word again -- am I 100% certain, no chance) that she may have had/has a point but like a lot of things in life, taken out of context and on its own, it sounds ludicrous. Again, it's one of those things that you can go round and round on. Who was right and who was wrong? Don't think anyone was all of either...I think that, to some extent, we were all wrong and responsible for the way things went. But you know what the poet once said, from chaos all great things grow. -=>Donald (EG)

Ali: Yes, I understand what EdgeNet says is their position and their take on the events that occured. I also understand what Willow says. As some have said, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle and I doubt anyone will ever know what that is. You know, while I truly appreciate EdgeNet's hosting of this site, I don't for a second believe that it was done from altruism, the goodness of their hearts or to just help out. Yes, they backed this forum with hardware, software and technical expertise; but it was nowhere close to a one-sided proposition for them. No we didn't pay money, but how much do you think the number of hits we supplied to their servers each day increased the fees they can now charge for ad space here? How much do you think our services as beta-testers was worth to them? How much was it worth to have dozens of sites including companies like Metacreations and Zygote linking back to their site? The benefits flowed both ways. Does this make them the Evil Empire? No, it makes them business-people. We could go around and around on this. Just as we could on the whole "is there money and where does it go" issue. Personally, I still don't understand why anyone cares or why they think that they have the right to know. If I paid money to Willow for accessing the PFO, then I -might- have a different POV on it all. As for me it probably comes down to one thing - the belief that EdgeNet Media doesn't care about Poser or 3D art. I truly believe that this could have been the "Pan Flute Forum" and would have been treated the same if it was as popular and generated the response that the PFO did. So I guess it also comes down to trust for me..who do I trust to keep the forum going? Someone with a personal stake in the forum and a love of the art or a business that would have been just as happy if this was the "Teletubbies Forum"? -=>Donald (EG)

Blah..hate when I type something and my browser eats it...guess I'll try again: Jeff: Ya know, I find it really interesting how this is all going and how the people involved (on both sides) seem to choose - either conciously or subconciously - what they hear and what facts they say or imply. What you say above is an example. Not trying to start an argument...but it implies a lot. Even if it is your take on event, as a lead on the forum it carries a lot of weight. An example is the statement of when Willow registered the domains, even though she already publicly stated that the creation of the new site was underway before she received the e-mail from Edgenet. As for the question of "Would she need to do this if she was truely a Non-Profit Organization?" It's really amazing how many people have no idea what a non-profit organization is. Non-profit does not mean you don't make money...it means that everything that is taken in goes for the upkeep and betterment (sp?) of the organization. "Televangical" organizations are a good example. These people rake in billions of dollars a year (from both donations and ad revenue) and employ thousands of salaried employees, yet they are non-profit organizations. I don't know about anyone else, but in my mind -- if it was me, would I do all this to keep full control of the advertising of my site? I'd be a fool not to. -=>Donald (EG)

Perhaps sheep or perhaps something more than some of you can understand. I haven't posted much lately, but I have followed the forum since before they moved to this site. I was never here because it was www.poserforum.com or because it was powered by EdgeNet Media. I originally came here and stayed because of the people. Willow, Anton, Anson, Grey, on and on. The ones who answered my questions in the beginning, the ones who would look at a half-dozen different renders of the same scene and critique each to help me with my composition and lighting, and the ones with the opinions and talent that I respect. And strangely enough, most of those people are no longer here. Hmmm.... If going to where they are and where I feel comfortable makes me a sheep, then could I at least be a Bull-sheep ? :) -=>Donald (EG) Remember..there's not much difference between a sheep and a great warrior when they're both holding the detonator of a 800 mega-ton thermonuclear device. -Plato