Allerleirauh, Well, since the bottoms were just a base until other elements could be added, I guess the point is moot. I hadn't decided what to add there at that point, I still needed to experiment with what was possible given my current limitations. As it turned out, the bottom became the foundation for the skirt "belt", so it was an economical alternative to posting step two sans any protection there! :) Thanks, Fiontar

Enjoy spring break! Have much fun, but retain a small degree of sense! :) Fiontar

Comment on Allerleirauh's last point: I've IM'd Allie, and I believe she feels the step 3, with the skirt, is less "slutty". No hard feelings between us. :) For any who find there way back here, this is a brief counterpoint to her comments. We obviously have very different minds on these issues. I respect her opinions, but these are mine: On the Celtic myths, very briefly, I did a twenty page paper on the view of women in ancient Celtic Ireland for a professor who's favorite area of study was Irish Celtic mythology and folklore. He was reknowned for trashing students who got the facts wrong in any area, but more so in his favorite field. People thought I was crazy to do it, I should have taken a safer subject further from his field of expertise. I aknowledged which areas were more or less certain based on historical sources vs. mythological ones, talked about how some information was "tainted" when the myths were written down but the Christian monks mostly in the 14th to 17 th centuries. I then brought what we did know together with what we might know, to put together a logical guess on how things really might have been. I got an A, which is pretty impossible with him. This was an honors class, eleven students, so we each had a day to discuss orally our papers. He grilled me, and I thought I was going to die, but I satisfied his questions. He had some minor disagreement on some items, but told me I had actually given him a new perspective on some issues he had pondered himself. This was about ten years ago. I was researching these things well before that class, to help round out the foundation of my religious beliefs, which would be considered a modern reconstruction based on the old Celtic beliefs. There is room for interpretation, but please understand I do have a good depth of knowledge on this subject. As to fantasy making sense, you can't judge it based on our modern culture, mores and sensabilities. The AD&D world is inspired by historical settings that didn't co-exist in reality, but it is internally consistant and logical. You can argue how egalitarian matriarchal societies really were historically, but the fictional general AD&D settings is in many ways more egalitarian, at least amoung the "adventuring elite", than current day Earth. You can't judge what would be considered "ridiculous" dress by to today's standards either. Almost everything you might dress your character with would be pretty "ridiculous" if you wore it around town today! :) As to dressing like a "slut", these are my views, as concisely as possible: What is a slut? Well, it isn't just based on promiscuity, it's promiscuity with a conscious or unconcious desire to "defile" or corrupt one's self or others through a "debasing" act of sex. It's action combined with intent. A major point I would like to make is that a woman using her "sexiness" along with here other gifts is not a slut. Patriarchy fears empowered women who are capable and intelligent AND comfortable with thier own sexual natures more than anything. At periods where women start to find greater power in a society, you will find that society counter-reacts by trying to obscure their sexual identity and power. i.e. the 18th century, where women's clothing became very restrictive, and covered everything, and today, where women are being taught that her sexuality is somehow anti-feminist. Of course, the greatest, blatant attack of Patriarchy on the power of women was during the Inquisition. It was a time to rid the Church of all sorts of competitors, but mostly it was to eliminate the position of "wise women" in society, healers, arbitrators and "seductresses". It was mostly women who exerted any power or influence that were burned, many were healers or priestesses of the old religions, but others where just women who had presence, leadership qualities or "worst of all", would use their looks or feminine natures (NOT the act of sex, but just being "sexy"), who were targeted. The only way someone can dress "like a slut" is to wear certain clothing, (not always revealing), to facilitate her own "sluty" actions. It's not just what is worn, but how and why, but remember, dressing to "be sexy" is not slutiness! Dressing to fascilitate a sluty lifestyle is. One of the worst forms of oppression still being visited upon women in today's society, more markedly in American society, is the notion that to be sexy lessens or cheapens the value of a woman. A sexist man who judges women just on "sexiness" is till judging you that way, whether his judgement is "yes, you are sexy", or "no, you aren't". Obscuring your sexuality isn't going to make him value you for your other qualities, your just in his "not sexy" category. Only when people, men and women, learn to value sexuality as just one of many positive qualities that a person can posess, will women be fully enfranchised in society. For me, a woman putting a negative value on another woman's sexiness is just as bad as a sexist man basing all of her value on it! Gwen is not a slut, no matter how she dressed, she would not be. In the fictional RPG universe, her value as a woman warrior and mage is equal to that of a man. That's how most would judge her. If, as part of a mission, she had to play the role of seductress to win entry into the court of the villian, this would not demean her, in her eyes nor the eyes of her companions. Seduction (not harlotry), has always been an important skill used by powerful women in history. And it wasn't always raw looks. Cleopatra was very average looking, but was a master at the art of seduction. Does this lessen her value or accomplishments in any way? Fiontar

Roshigoth, I really like this character a lot! :) I'm very anxious to see you do some more images with her. Her coloring; skin, hair, eyes and lips are all perfect together. The dress with it's shade are also perfect for the character. Very nice. Fiontar

SnowS, Thanks for the comments. I want the colors dark, but I notice now, looking at it with the room around me brightly lit with the afternoon sun, under these conditions it looks to dark. It just highlights how imperfect it can be to get something that looks good on one monitor, to look as good on someone elses. :) The skirt is a little lighter than the rest, I think I'll up the brightness a tad on the others. Thanks, Fiontar

Woops, Just noticed that I forgot to add the corrected direction of the dragon scales on the breast plate to the image! Doh! :) Next evolution I'll fix that. The skirt has the right scale direction... Fiontar

Allerleirauh, I respect your basis, but you are talking about modern evolutions of sword arts that mostly reflect later evolutions from the last half of the second millenium. During the peak of Celtic influence, you weren't going to find many Celts, Gauls or Germanic warriors wearing gauntlets or much in the way of fancy armor. Most AD&D worlds are a mix of technology that didn't historically coexist much in reality, but the historical point is seperate from the Fantasy world, where the rules don't often apply anyway. During the first millennium b.c. through most of the first millennium a.d., you may find exceptions where complex armour and gauntlets were used, but this was not universal across cultures. Also, through out history, it was mostly the elite military forces that had these more complex elements. It is no exageration that the Irish Celts during Roman expansion into the British Isles fought nude. The Celtic blades of the era didn't provide much, if any, protection of the hand. The only "armour" was a lyme mix applied to the hair which hardened, giving some protection to the head. The Roman soldiers had the height of current military technology, in armour and arms. In spite of this, the Romans NEVER succeded in invading Ireland, though they tried for over 200 years! The Romans attributed this to the great skill and frenzy of the Celts, along with the influence of the white robed Druids who's leadership and "magic" inspired the morale of the warriors. And yes, there were woman warriors along side the men, AND the greatest blademasters, who taught most of the great legendary heros of Ireland, were women! :)

True.northstar, There are couple of her in the Gallery with her hair pulled back, giving the look of short hair. It is cute, especially from this viewing angle. Her hair is long and flowing. I will probably do some in the future pulled back like the two in the gallery, and other hair styles on the long hair. But short hair probably won't happen for this character. Her hair is very long, and she won't give it up for anything. :) Fiontar

Pack, There is nothing wrong wit an A or B cup.... Grrrr..... The red hair is "unaturally" shaded with intention. Thanks, Fiontar

Uggg, Allerleirauh, enough with the peeves, I like this look and see nothing wrong with it!!! :) Some points were left out here that were made in "step one" here earlier, so I can appreciate the comments, my fault. I'm interested in comments on the elements so far, it's far from complete... ::sigh:: Some of you are sparking me to want to debate the issue of "sexy" and fantasy women, but I'll save that for when I have the energy. I aleady lost a day to this general issue. No offense to anyone. However, I'm now developing a pet peeve of my own! ;P First, yes, other elements are in the works, it will depend on what results I get with different things I try. It's possible that none, some or most of the leather (exterior, not interior) bottoms will be obscured/ covered by some other elements. Second, this is an AD&D 3rd Edition character in the works. Some elements of multiclass restrictions on weapon/ armor use have been relaxed, but she IS a Warrior/ Mage. Her choices are no armor at all, or light armor that won't inhibit spell casting. This character has a very high dexterity. For those not versed in RPGs, her main defense is her quickness, and ability to dodge, avert, etc... blows before they reach any armor. She can't wear anything heavy, ruling out the "slow, bulky, hit me and see if you make a dent" kind of armour. The finger cut outs are required, as most spells require precise jestures to work. The extra protection she is now provided is far better than nothing. The exotic nature of the magical dragon scale armor is the only thing that let's her wear anything more than leather or cloth, for the most part. :) Even if spell use weren't an issue, I promise that 90% of those who ever fought with swords in our historical old times didn't wear gaunlets. One thing many seem to forget with Gwen, in general, is that her expertise with the blade, and her magic, negate most of these points entirely. Do NOT underestimate her abilities! She definitely doesn't like that! :) Her choice in armour is based on functionality AND style. Don't we usually combine those two in the real world when making clothing choices? For her, practical has to mean the best protection with the least restriction of movement. Aside from the limitations of the artist right now as far as options, all her armour choices are made with practicallity in mind, implemented stylishly, with the added consideration of the effect in the imigery from the artist's perspective. Skimpy sans reason is dumb, bulking up out of a false sense of modisty is just as dumb, and possibly more dangerous... The bottoms are not meant to be her only "protection" in that range. It is the base for what I find I can add, and was at least better than having nothing there because I haven't gotten that far yet! The bottom isn't there UNTIL something else is added, but in addition to what, if anything, is added. ::sigh:: Please note the cut of the top. I added what collar and height I could without restricting motion. There is enough of a dip under the neck to allow her to "breath", but no gratuitous cleavage. The length is based on mobility, and somewhat on Aesthetics. It's as low as looked good with the limited methods at my disposal. I do appreciate all the comments, but please don't begrudge me the ability to respond. There are a lot of issues being raised around this character that seem to be based on generalizations that don't really apply to her, or me. I'm not going to go skimpy to titilate, nor am I going to limit my expression based on anyone's sensabilities. None of the above is any kind of attack on anyone, I just feel frustrated that myself, and this work, seem to be being greatly misundertood based on generalities that, once again, may not apply... Done any fighting? When I was young, some friends and cousins used to do a weekend "real world" D&D in the woodland and fields behind our house. Dyed sheets for cloaks, and 1 1/2" thick, 5' long dowells as swords. For the most part, the coffee can plastic lids as hilt guards prevented any serious harm over a weekend. :) LOL. Haven't thought about that in a while. We were clumsy, Gwen is expert. There IS a reason for hilt guards, and the katana has one. :) I'm definitely not going to do seperate versions of images for different crowds! That's to PC for me! :) I won't limit my expression to hide sexuallity, nor use it gratuitously. That's all I can say. She will be wearing as much or as little as the image requires... Eventually, once I have the tools and skills required, I plan on doing an image showing all the bulk an adventurer carries along between battles. Also one showing the stuff that is dropped, thrown aside or removed to egage in combat:) And, even when I can create every bit of equipment, armour and clothing I could want, I will still do figure studies that I find artistic... Allerleirauh, I've been contemplating the scales, I'm thinking point down for the breast plate and point up for the leggings. Both are comfortably lined, so interior isn't a factor. For the leggings, you are more likely to be sliding down a slope than up it ;) So, I'm thinking point up is fine. Fiontar

Thanks all for the comments. Worked on part 2 this afternoon, will post that to the forum shortly. :) Deal, the gloves and leggings (they aren't boots, just armour, I need to find good boots eventually to go with) are morphs to the character's arms and legs that cause the flare outwards you see. I found them on MorphWorld, I believe. The hard part is texturing them, because the flares are mid way up the limbs. For now, it works for me. :) Fiontar

Thanks for all the comments, I still am not at all understanding some of the thoughts on nudity in images, and this one in particular. The reason for having the Katana in these images, instead of being just "straight pin up nudes", is to show that she, and her body, may be beautiful, but she isn't any man's "plaything". The blade, her stance and her expression should make it clear that no one is going to be touching her without permission! I'm not applying this to ANYONE'S particular comments here, but in general, I think that there is a lot of discomfort in our society on the subject power, women and sex. A woman can be perceived as powerful, she can be perceived as being sexy, but if she is powerful AND sexy, the sexy is seen to detract from her power, or cheapen it somehow. Allerleirauh, historically, a Celtic warrior shouldn't be using a Katana, but in the RPG realm, it's just another weapon, not limited to any particular culture. Most RPG fantasy realms are a real melting pot anyway, not only human cultures, but hundreds of non- human ones! :) I totally understand and agree on the point of how an artist will portray a male vs. female warrior. If I was one to settle for the chain mail bikini, I wouldn't be having so much trouble finding clothing that will work! (Note: not that there aren't some good images using such). I'm trying to find creative ways to modify things in Bryce to get something appropriate, and am making some slow progress. With better modelling tools, I'd be all set. I'm just stuck waiting to decide if Carrara is stable enough right now, or if I should go for RDS. I can't afford both :( Anyway, I never meant this image to support the old "women in fantasy art" stereotype. To be honest, from my perspective, Gwen is so powerful in these images that I can't even grasp the point that it may be "sexist", to use a poor but approximate word for the sentiment I'm feeling here. She is young looking, sexy, attractive AND nude, but still exudes her power and sense of self. I guess that would be the whole point of the image. And once again, I haven't set her out in the elements sans clothing. The lack of any scene was an artistic choice, but also takes the character out of any expectations in interaction with the world she lives in. Her form, and her comfort with her body and her handling of the blade is the only element being presented her. You don't even have to wonder what she's standing on, and if it's cold! :) I've never seen artistic nudity as gratuitous. The other elements will decide whether there is a "sexist" message, and from my point of view, not only is there no "weakness or submisiveness" being portrayed here, but the opposite! The strong, capable yet feminine warrior is my favorite archetype, and I don't see that Gwen is anything less than that, even sans clothing. Also, when it does come to fantasy art, I may agree with the peeve, but I never judge the image just on attire, or lack there of. Some of my favorite fantasy art also manages to make clear the character's strength and power, regardless of the clothing. Right now, one of my favorite artists is Luis Royo. I find that no matter what the other circumstances, his women have power. That's what I appreciate and love. Fiontar McEoghan

One more quick note! :) I do plan on many more of this character. It's just my style as an artist. Some develop a single character, perfect a single pose and all the elements, produce one final product, then move on to a different subject. Maybe it's my past experience with photography, but I prefer to do alot with one subject, different settings, poses, clothing, accessories, etc..., and post the best images that come from that. In Poser/ Bryce I may try out many poses with minor tweaks in Poser, export the best one to three into Bryce, then rough out a bunch of lighting and camera angles, saving only the best, until I've save all I have the patience for. Then, I batch render in a medium size, preview render style, a bunch over night. Narrow those down, then re-render three to five in high quality and size while I sleep the next day. Then, I do the post in PSP, and then hopefully get one or two from those that are good enough to post. :) To give you an idea what I'm talking about here, once again photography has influenced my Poser/ Bryce approach. The latest pose, Gwen and Her Katana #2 and #3, are the two "finalists" from a rough Bryce overnight render batch of 37 camera/ light angles! Seven where redone in high quality the next "sleep time" batch, and these two made the cut. It isn't just random, I have a decent eye for lighting and composition, but if I where shooting these with a camera, I would take over 100 frames to get a few that are good enough to share. :) So please don't think I'm posting everything I render of her. Only a handful of those I've done have been posted, and none have just been "slapped out"!:) The earliest few were for advice, which I much needed. If I had realized, I would have posted them in this forum. The past five or so have been posted because I liked them enough to share in the gallery. The character may not be finished, and I still have MUCH room for improvement, and a TON to learn about this medium and the software. However, what I've posted recently are finished images of a progressing character. Fiontar

I hope this doesn't come through twice! If so, sorry. It's been 10 minutes, seems to wierd, don't remember a delay before. :( Decided to "check in" here before taking a needed nap (I work nights). I'll try to offer a brief reply to what's been said so far. First, I don't consider the image itself unfinished, just the character. The point is that I'm not creating the character to run around nude, fighting goblins and dragons in the buff. I have posted images to the forum that in the proccess of working on the character I thought were worthy of being posted on their own merits. I didn't create this character as a sexual object. These nude images I consider artistic and beautiful. I initially worried that (some, many?)people here might not be able to look at the nude figure for the artistic value. However, as I've posted, I've been very pleased at the mostly mature way that they've been received. I had begun to feel that the community here had the "artistic appreciation" of tastful nudity, or at least the courteousy not to trash an image because it's a nude. I'm Wiccan, and nudity is not a big deal. Also, because of my personal philosophies, I don't see tasteful nudity to be exploitative, just the opposite, empowering. Although I have zero problem with stuff I've seen in Renderotica, I have chosen NOT to post these there, because I didn't want to reinforce in some peoples minds that these nudes of Gwen are in any way meant to be purient in nature. As to the aspect of fantasy heroines, I understand the point. It's kind of silly to see a fantasy babe nude or only in a skimpy chain thong taking on some beast, where apearently being "sexy" is more important to her than protecting her own hide. Gwen is a Fantasy Role Playing character, yes. But the fictional character doesn't just adventure with out having a life beyond the time they are strapped in to their bulky armor. Being from a Fantasy race and culture where nudity is not taboo, then I see no reason why she couldn't work out with her weapon sans clothing, or even pose that way for some reknowned fictional artist of the realm. I only bring it up because that was the RPG basis for the nudity being "wrong"... The fact that the caption mentions that clothing is coming for the character was meant to assure those who might think otherwise that a.) I'm not doing nudity just to do nudity, it's just the only way I can express this character right now, b.) to make it clear that nudity is not the state that Gwen is meant, by me, the artist, to live her fantasy life. Most of any fighting she will do will be clothed and armored! :) I'm not as upset as I was last night, but I just hate that someone would give a 2 not based on any artistic reason, and not because the image was inappropriate for the forum, but just because they can't deal with artistic nudity... One last tangent before I turn this back over to other comments (please do continue, this discussion is important to how I "feel" about this place). On the subject of historical precedent: Yes, there is much art and statuary from ancient times showing female AND male nudity, including nude warriors engaging man or beast. Culturally, the ancient Celts, mostly of Ireland, DID go into battle nude AND woman were allowed to fight, and were respected as fellow warriors! They gave up armor for dextrous mobility AND the shock value on foriegn forces! :) Sorry for missing any specific replies, I've read and appreciate all views I've read here. :) I'll be back later tonight, after some sleep... Thanks Fiontar McEoghan

I think it's stunning work so far. I like the non-trans version better. The transparancy might come in handy if you put another layer of clothing beneath it. It may not be "acurate" chain mail armor, but it still works for a fantasy image, for me anyway. Once again, what you have already might make a good base for adding more realistic elements. Keep it up! :)