Oh, "marketing," my ass.  DAZ never did any real "marketing" in its life.  What it did do was come out with figures that were superior to any others available to Poser users, and since they were superior, they became "the" figures-- and DAZ just proceeded to capitalize on that and continue improving its figures.

Apollo?  Please-- that thing is what, seven or eight years old at least?  I bought it in the very early days, when it was at RDNA-- $50, down the tubes-- just to see what was so "revolutionary" about it.  Well, surprise, surprise--- nothing was.  Yeah, some of the joints were rigged a little better than M3's (no big feat), and it had an extra section in the torso, and the toes were fully poseable (which is mostly "overkill")-- but that hardly added up to REVOLUTIONARY!!!  And there were things about it that were totally lame, like the half-modeled teeth and the horrible topology on the back.  For a one-man effort, it was pretty good... but it wasn't "revoluntionary," and it certainly can't hold a candle to M4.  Or to-- dare I say the G-word?-- Genesis.

It really all comes down to one question:  Is the figure superior to M4/V4?  If not, then forget it.  It's not going to catch on, it's not going to become popular enough to attract the support of "serious" vendors, and it's just going to languish in the same little backwater limbo into which so many other figures have sunk.

The thing is, in order for ANY figure to be widely accepted enough to be worthwhile for vendors to support it, it would have to be at least as good as, and preferably an improvement on, the V4/M4 figures.  And really, how likely is it that anybody but DAZ could or would create such a thing?

Quote - I love the back and (?) Armpit to back area (?)  (not sure what that is called.  I actually like the brow protrusion as it is.  Gives her a very distinct and strong looking face

Thing is, you don't want a "distinct" and "strong-looking" face on a base figure; you want a very bland, "generic" face that can be morphed easily into any other sort of face.

Look at the difficulty people had trying to make Michael 2 or Michael 3 NOT look like Michael 2 or Michael 3.

Yeah, like content from DAZ is just going to be chock-full of viruses.  Uh-huh.  Sure.

Quote - > Quote - lol wow. Drama drama drama. (que brady bunch theme)

I remember the drama over Renda, but somehow I missed all that about Apollo, and I don't even think I've seen a Clark. And i was around in 07. Err, at least in the early part of it. 

 ~Shane

It was just ur typical, he said/she said foot shooting contest ;).

Laurie

Actually, it wasn't a matter of "he said/she said."  It was a matter of one vendor falsely accusing another of "mesh plagiarism" in a deliberate effort to kill the other vendor's product-- which I consider completely despicable.

I did a side-by-side comparison of the two figures and found NO similarity between them whatsoever.

That wasn't by any means the first or only time that Anton made false accusations that others had stolen his precious Apollo or his "ideas" or whatever.  He eventually managed to alienate just about everybody except a small, hard-core group of Apollo worshippers-- and pretty much shot himself in the foot.  Both feet, actually.

Well... this figure is a good start-- but it's only a "start."  Before you go adding morphs, I think you need to focus on refining the base figure to conform more closely to actual human anatomy.  For instance, the outer quadriceps do not extend clear down to the knee-joint; they stop well above it  And on the feet, the inner arch of the foot extends clear to the "ball" of the big toe; it does not stop halfway along the length of the foot.

Human figures are the most difficult thing for any modeler to get "right."  You've got a good base going, so concentrate on getting the base into shape first.

Quote - I think there's more than one reason why AntoniaWM hasn't exactly "caught on" ;).

Laurie

Haw... I could give you several reasons.

There is absolutely NO reason to stick to the old Poser "T-pose"... and in fact, every reason NOT to.

Given Poser's joint setup limitations-- even with weight-mapping-- it makes sense to model figures with the joints bent about halfway-- i.e., arms slightly lowered rather than straight-out, elbows slightly bent, fingers slightly bent, etc., etc.

Quote - Steph 3 is pregnant and nobody is sure who the father is.  It's not David cause he's gay and it can't be Mike 3 or 4 because Vicky 4 won't let them have their willies back.  Steph 1 is jealous cause she had the hots for Steph 3 since Dina turned her down.  Everyone hopes it's not Mike 2 cause the kids will all look like Dan Farr.

Hiro broke up with Aiko and was last seen with his hand down The Girl's blouse, the Mill Kids have all started sniffing glue, apart from Luke who ran off to join the circus, Vicky 5 is really pissed since she found she's a clone of Genesis who has a gender crisis anyway and wants to make babies (somehow) with the Millennium Morphing Cube.

The Millennium Cat ate the House Mouse and the Dog keeps weeing everywhere, the Dragons won't stop crapping on the carpet and all the other animals have locked themselves in the boardroom and won't come out until they get new UV Maps and textures.  The Gorilla says he wants a bunch of new morphs and can he have Mike 3's willy, please, since he hasn't one of his own and even if he did it would be really tiny.

The Dinosaurs have rampaged around the parking lot and now everyone has to walk home, Emotiguy ran out of Prozac yesterday and now he's on the roof with an assault rifle.  DBot tried to talk him down but got a cap in his butt.

Basically, just another day at DAZ. 

As I said in the DAZ forum, this is the funniest thing I've read all week, so if DAZ achieved nothing else with that teaser announcement, at least it inspired you to create this wonderful giggle.

Thank you for the laugh!!

How good a render is depends on how skilled the person doing it is and how familiar he is with the software he's using.  If a person has been using Poser for years, but has only been using DS4 for a couple of months, obviously his Poser renders are going to be better than his DS4 renders.  But that's no reflection on the model itself.  And NOBODY has been using DS4 for more than a few months because it's only been out for a few months.

One would think that would be obvious....

I could point to plenty of crappy renders using V4 and M4-- bad poses, unfocused eyes, flashlight mouth, plastic-looking skin because of poor lighting and/or bad render settings, etc., etc.  But do those crappy renders "prove" anything about the quality of V4 and M4?  No.

Quote - Yay!  I get it!!  :) Now maybe I should start asking some questions about hair!  ;)

Oh, dear god, don't EVEN go there!!!  Even people who've been doing this stuff for years are reluctant to tackle hair.

Start off with something simple, go through the book, work your way up.  It's just like an infant learning to walk... first he has to learn to crawl, then he has to learn to toddle, then he has to learn to walk.  Or like a child in school-- before he starts reading Shakespeare, he first has to learn his A-B-Cs.

Quote - V4, even with third party morphs to her, no matter what you do, she looks like V4, ditto for V3.

NOT true.  Do the morphs here look like V3?

http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/sci-fi-fantasy?item=3435

No, they don't.

If a figure is well-made to start with, it can be morphed into something that looks nothing like the base figure.  If the morphs you're talking about "looked like V3" or "looked like V4," then I'd say that was the fault of the person creating the morphs, and not of the figure itself.

And while we're at it, do any of these morphs look like M3?

http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=4252

No, they don't.  And do any of these look like V3?

http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=4260

No, they don't.

There are a lot of "character" makers out there who do nothing but spin a couple of dials and call the result a "character."  Result?  It pretty much looks like the base figure.  Well, surprise, surprise!  But that's a far cry from doing a truly original, sculpted morph.  And if the result "looks like" the base figure, well, guess what?-- that's not the fault of the figure, but of the person creating the morph.

Quote - > Quote - If you want to distribute maps, like with a character you create, you have to make your own.

Using the templates from the Daz site?

Yes.

Quote - OK, so you can use the templates to create your own textures and stuff and then those you can include with your character.... but you can't alter one of the maps that you get with V4 (like the Hi Res).  Now do I understand?  :)

Yep-- you got that exactly right.   Now, you CAN alter the maps for your own use-- you just can't distribute them.  If you want to distribute maps, like with a character you create, you have to make your own.

Quote - So for those who make characters that are for say, V4, are just doing a new morph and UV Map for her face/body and painting and texturing it up in Photoshop (or whichever application)?   Just curious because tons of people sell or have for free their creations that are for V4.

I think I wasn't clear on what a UV Map is.  A UV map is just a 2-D, flattened-out representation of the model, which serves as a "template" for making textures for that model.  For instance, go here:

http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/victoria-4-2?item=4783

and look on the right-hand side, near the bottom, under "Resources and Information"-- you'll see "texture template download."  Download those templatse and look at them in a paint program.  These are UV maps.

Those templates are used to create the texture maps for the model-- the diffuse (color) map, the bump and/or displacement map, the transparency map, etc.  So, in creating a new texture map for a model, you do not need a new UV map; you need to create a new texture map from the existing template.

Take a look at the templates, and then take a look at the texture maps for V4, and you'll see what I mean.