Ok, I've seen images from artists in V4/M4 and then looked at their work in Genesis. Am I the only one NOT seeing the same quality coming out? It just doesn't look as good as their work with V4/M4.

Also, the costs associated with Genesis, V5 and D4 are not negligible. I realize it's DAZ's job to get people to spend their money but damn, who can keep up

Quote - Ok, I've seen images from artists in V4/M4 and then looked at their work in Genesis. Am I the only one NOT seeing the same quality coming out? It just doesn't look as good as their work with V4/M4.

Also, the costs associated with Genesis, V5 and D4 are not negligible. I realize it's DAZ's job to get people to spend their money but damn, who can keep up

I, too, see the differences (None good) of the models in renderings and fail to understand the flurry of Genesis based products for something that is subpar and over priced to the point that I am no longer purchasing Studio programs.  I have DS3A, and with everything they've changed and shifted to 'mandatory' to be able to use DS4A or Pro- tack that onto the price of it, the base Gen model, the MORPHS for every single 4 and 3 model, the morphs for expressions...and on...and on..

Tally everything up, and you will have enough once you've purchased the program all the morph sets for Genesis, a couple of skin sets and outfits... Maybe a set or two... Perhaps some pre-fab lighting sets or Mood Master (Oh, wait-that's for DS3 or lower!) and what do you have?

Enough crap to look at and go.."I could have just bought ZBrush or 3dsMax..."

I am not spending anymore of my money on a company that insists on cutting the left hand off to hide what the right hand is doing just for money that is slowly leaking out of their palm anyway.

I am saving my pennies and will be putting that toward something I need.  Upgrading the system, lessons, classes.  I've had it with idiocy and the "gimmie" attitudes I've seen with several unnamed persons and entities concerning this issue.  I am going to concentrate on what I have, and better the work that comes from it rather than keep going for the cookie cutter, half-baked crap.

the reason the renders aren't as good, is because everyone is still practicing with it....

see the render thread here

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=165191&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

but there are some great renders here

http://jcsoto.jalbum.net/Ilustraciones/

hellboy sotos are the best ive ever seen!

How good a render is depends on how skilled the person doing it is and how familiar he is with the software he's using.  If a person has been using Poser for years, but has only been using DS4 for a couple of months, obviously his Poser renders are going to be better than his DS4 renders.  But that's no reflection on the model itself.  And NOBODY has been using DS4 for more than a few months because it's only been out for a few months.

One would think that would be obvious....

I could point to plenty of crappy renders using V4 and M4-- bad poses, unfocused eyes, flashlight mouth, plastic-looking skin because of poor lighting and/or bad render settings, etc., etc.  But do those crappy renders "prove" anything about the quality of V4 and M4?  No.

I agree that getting everything for Genesis is pretty expensive, especially when you have to upgrade DS at the same time. But....with that in mind, for me, the expense was definitely worth it!

I found changing from DS3A to DS4A a fairly simple process. Initially it took some time, maybe an hour or two, to figure it out and find the things I use the most. Genesis was an immediate hit with me. I'm still amazed at the things you can do with it, and the endless morph combinations you can use to create unique figures.

Of course everyone has their own opinion, but IMHO the detail and quality of Genesis characters (the model) is easily equal to V4, and quite possibly much better. I agree with Blondie9999 and SickenlySweete that the quality of the renders is due to DS4 being so new. Another big factor is that many of the plugins people relied on with DS3 to improve their renders aren't compatible with DS4.

The new DSF file format is a big plus as well! We finally have ASCII text files that can be easily modified (there basically a  form of hyper text markup language). I recently tested using DSF to move a Genesis character from DS4 to the Carrara 8.5 Beta. The morphs transfered flawlessly! The materials didn't work quite as well, so I decided to open up the DSF file and see if I could figure out the problem. It took less than a min. to identify the problem, and about 5 min, to fix it. Then I was able to import the entire character with materials intact! I think this will be a huge plus, it makes DS much more user freindly and Poser like for easy to edit files.

I have done renders with F4 and the Genesis male together and I can't see any difference in the quality of models in the fully rendered image.  I think what will make the Genesis figure look good or not are the same factors that make any other 3D models look good or bad--the lighting and the texture map used on the figure. 

I don't think Genesis is any more expensive than some of the other 3D figures and clothes I've bought--but the big advantage is that any clothing, texture or hair bought for the Genesis figure can be used with any variation in it's shape.  The more shapes you  have to work with the more unique characters you can create.  You never got that kind of versatily out aof clothing, hair, or a figure before.  No more converting outfits from one figure to another.  The workflow is easier than the series of morph injections one has to use with M4 and V4.