Oh dear ! Vue 3 is so old! Maybe there were upgrade options from Vue 3 4 years ago, when Vue 4 appeared. But now? Please remember that Vue 3 was available for free with some computer newspapers - so I won't expect any price reduction for Vue 5 just because I have a free Vue 3. Does it make sense?

Attached Link: http://www.stillpictures.com/categories/unep/UNEP02_2.html

Attached Link: http://www.stillpictures.com/categories/unep/UNEP02_2.html

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=481811&Start=109&Artist=Ron%5FHarris&ByArtist=Yes

No one can forbid to 18 year old looking 14 to act in hardcore porns - because she is 18, and she can do anything she wants - even to be a prostitute - this is legal.

Children pornography - REAL CHILDREN - from real world - is forbidden (justly) to protect minors against sexual exploitation practices - such law is useful.

What is the point to protect a 3D mesh from being displayed naked ????

There is no sense in such ban.

My post is not in support all those freaks crazy of naked fairies - I prefer other artistic subjects - my post is against STUPIDITY !

Maybe we should forbid to show 3D women's face? Muslim fundamentalist would be very happy!

OK, no naked fairies permitted - let's make more violence renders .... this is cool and legal. Yes! More blood! Show up more decapitated heads! Kill Bill is cool - no naughty fairies - just blood, just killing ! Perfectly legal and politically correct...
World is crazy...

THIS IS LEGAL :

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=602974&Start=55&Artist=Ron%5FHarris&ByArtist=Yes

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=741822&Start=109&Artist=potrimpo&ByArtist=Yes

THIS IS NOT :

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=684350&Start=1&Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=42&MostWanted=Yes

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=913020&Start=1&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNew=Yes

World is crazy!

1. I don't like most of naked virtual models - not because of prudery, but because most of them look ugly and artificial. 2) I think that children pornography should be banned to avoid molestation of REAL children involved in REAL pornographic photographic sessions 3) 3D meshes ARE NOT children, they are not REAL, and all 3D meshes are younger than 18 years, because 18 years ago there was no 3D graphics (almost) So what is the point ? Why to forbid to post a picture showing a naked fairy with childish face? This is complete absurd! You can not kill people - but you can show factious killing - (in almost every movie, also in movies for under aged there are thousands of brutal killing scenes) You can not explode atomic bomb in heart of NY, but you can show it in a movie... You can not be drug dealer in real life, but an actor can play a drug dealer in a movie. So why someone can't show a 3D mesh looking like naked child? This is fiction! No one is hurt here, no one is molested. Stupidity does not know any frontiers... Of course owners of this site can impose any rules they want - this is their right - Next, I propose to forbid to show endangered species of animals or biplane aircrafts - it would be as much cleaver as this last rule...

OK! For me it does not matter at all - put excellent ranks to all pictures you want, tell their authors how ~~MAGICAL~~ are they beach scenes with dears and large breasted vixens fighting dragons - it won't change a lot for me - now I am still here - because I used to this site - but for inspiration I have to look elsewhere. As I said initially, I am aware that my appeal and all this discussion won't change a lot - Renderosity will be more and more amateur site - and there will be here only a couple artists posting valuable works - other will go elsewhere. This is not my problem, this is not the problem of Renderosity owners (as they make money on people selling mainly amateur quality poser stuff) - just newbies will have less opportunities to compare their first renders with something that has some artistic value - as there will be none here. Just ask yourself why CGTalk artists don't post here...

Dear aeilkema, when I started my adventure with Vue - all I had was a free copy of Vue 2 - no manual, no internet, no forum, no tutorials to help me - just me and Vue 2 on my computer - Celeron 600, 128 MB ram. My first picture was very simple: http://www.vvveronika.republika.pl/GALERIA3D/GALERIA/G1/1.jpg It last for about 3 moths before I learned Vue to the level that enabled me to try to bother other people with my pictures - then I started posting (from my friends computer who had internet) - this was my firs post: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=197522&Start=37&Artist=czarnyrobert&ByArtist=Yes I was still learning on my own, and three months later, I could produce my first picture I consider really good - still on Celeron 600Mhz...: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=253156&Start=37&Artist=czarnyrobert&ByArtist=Yes I DID NOT REQUIRED from anyone to teach me Vue, I did not require from anyone to give my excellent ranks just because "I was so kind to post something here". For me it was a privilege if someone was loosing his time to look on my picture and even more if he written his opinion about it. Especially if it pointed out my mistakes - so I could avoid them next time. Those days the average artistic level of Renderosity was much higher - maybe this was the reason why posting each new picture was a challenge for me - and still it is. I wanted to offer something special for my viewers and did not require anything from them - you seem to require from your viewers confirmation how "excellent" you are - you seems to require from others to teach you Vue - but you are doing nothing to really improve... This is the difference... Everybody knows that confirmation policy was a huge failure that was just producing presumptuous lamers requiring adoration for NOTHING - you can not progress if you don't get realistic feedback telling you how good is what you are doing. You are not happy that there is no more tutorials made by me - just tell me have you ever tried to use my lighting techniques described in tutorial on my website? I doubt - I can't see it on your renders. Maybe have you tried to build terrains as I described in my tutorial posted on Renderosity? No... so don't expect more before you learn those basics elements... May creativity be with you!

There is a couple of answers and whole are very simple: - first think on the concept of your scene - don't spent less than 2-3 hours on this process (1 day of sketching would be appreciated) (or even more if you can afford) - Then when you have the idea, identify technology needed to complete your picture - Modify your design if there is no technology available to achieve what you planned. - Make a Plan = a list of elements you'll need to complete your scene (models, textures, atmosphere etc...) - Start working on your scene - Render it, check what is wrong (always there is something wrong - there are no perfect scenes ) make a list of all corrections needed, correct them make another render and so on, until the moment when you think that only very minor problems remain - only then publish your scene. THEN IT WILL BE REALLY & TRULY EXCELLENT IF YOU MADE YOUR SCENE IN 15 minutes, DON'T BELIEVE IF SOMEONE TELLS YOU THAT IT IS "~~~ MAGICAL ~~~" ARTISTIC CONCEPT FIRST TECHNOLOGY ONLY TO SUPPORT IT NOT IN OPPOSITE WAY however sometime it is possible to show some example of what can be achieved using a technique - why not - but this too, should be done as properly as possible.

Check this link: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=193160&page=3&pp=15&highlight=Vue+Esprit+forum A New forum for Vue professionals should start on CGTals soon - they say that it will start when Vue 5 Infinite is released, and according to e-on website Vue 5 Infinite shoud be shipped in 2 weeks : http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Products/vue5infinite/ So quite soon! :-))

I think that problem of animosities between bryce-vue communities' lies in very different approach to the interface in both applications.

Very original Bryce approach is very different from more classical 3D interfaces as Vue has. If you learned only one of them it may be difficult to switch to another.

Knowing Vue interface I could relatively easily use Cinema 4D or Lightwave, but initially I had a lot of problems with Poser which is more similar to Bryce in its interface.
And vice-versa someone who learned Bryce interface may find Vue interface unusual. (although actual Vue 5 interface offers options that can make such change easier - ex. you can work only on one view and perform all operations inside it - however I still prefer 4 views :-))

Lucky are those who really learned both applications and are able to take the best form each of them.

It's strange that there is very little discussion ex. what is better Vue or Cinema, Bryce or Lightwave ? But it's maybe because those applications are designed for different users...

I wish a nice week-end to all Brycers !
May creativity be with you !

Cheers,

Robert

Message edited on: 10/22/2004 11:27

I always admired your imagination and creativity Rudolf ! And you are perfectly right that postwork is of great help for illustration purposes. Maybe I should use it more often :-) It was a pleasure to discuss with you about pros & cons of Vue-Bryce. Now let's go back to work - rendering is more fun than debating which software is the the best one. Who knows, maybe one day I will switch to Bryce 10 ;-)) (or we both switch to Cinema) Future is unknown...

Hi Rudolf ! By saying 80% I meant that the effect you get after postworking relatively basic Bryce scenes is much, much better than original renders, which - you must admit it - doesn't look very good. Exactly as you show in your post above. That may work for illustration purpose, but not for animation. I was mislead by such wonderfully postworked pictures and purchased Bryce, thinking I would be able to achieve such great results with Bryce alone. Maybe that's why now I prefer to achieve correct result directly in 3D. If you prefer to stay with Bryce, I wish you that your new employer DAZ3D prepares Bryce 6 as good and powerful as Vue 5 actually is :-)) Finally the most important tool that helps us to create great scenes lies between our ears ;-)) - without it any software would be useless junk. I look forward for your new amazing SF scenes & wish you a lot of imagination & creativity - as usual :-)) Cheers ! Robert PS. By the way, my opinion about Vue/Bryce was the same 2.5 year ago - long time before e-on invite me to beta test their product. You can check it on my website.

My adventure with 3D started in 2002 when I get a free copy of Vue 2 with a magazine.
I was amazed that I could easily set quite complex scenes on this old (1997) software.
After a couple of weeks I became addicted to 3D and decided to purchase some more actual 3D software than 5 years old Vue 2 - I considered Vue 4, but I could not find it anywhere where I leave, so I bought the new Corel's Bryce 5. I was impressed by excellent works of such Bryce artists as Rochr, sbleci, rohi or beton, unfortunately I didn't knew that 80% of the effect they get was due to extensive 2D postwork applied on basic Bryce renders.

As I had only a short experience with Vue 2 interface I was not addicted to it's functionality, but what I found in Bryce was a total disappointment.
One may say that Bryce interface is "revolutionary", but for me it is simply not ergonomic. The major disadvantage of Bryce interface is the lack of 4 simultaneous views - the basic for any 3D application - still I can't understand why Bryce does not give such an option to the user...

The second big disadvantage is the lack of object manager - it's a real pain in as if you have to manage hundreds of objects without such useful tool as Vue object manager and its layer system allowing you to deactivate/hide groups of objects in one mouse click.

Rendering speed - Bryce is definitely the slowest render I ever worked with - I had impression that same quality was achieved with Vue 2 in 1/4 of Bryce time. Then I worked on a slow Celeron 600, and it took ages to render even simple scenes. On the same machine, working in Vue I could prepare and render nice scenes much quicker (just look into my gallery - I switched to Athlon 2000+ one year ago, all works before "striders in the sun" were made on Celeron 600)

Bryce terrain editor lets you edit only very basic shapes - no special geological effects - all terrains I could do with Bryce looked very artificial.

Bryce plant editor seemed to me very promising - it was something that old Vue 2 does not have - unfortunately what I was able to set with Bryce tree editor was much, much worst than Vue vegetation.

So after 2 weeks of bad experiments with Bryce 5, very disappointed I came back to Vue 2.

Today If you compare Bryce 5 and Vue 5, it is as if you was comparing a WWII Spitfire with a F-22.... It is beyond compare.
Unfortunately Bryce's days of glory passed away a long time ago, actually it is a very old software, with very little options. Of course this old tool in hands of very talented artists can still produce interesting results, but only after a very extensive 2D postwork, which makes it useless for quality animation.

What is the point in waiting for something that probably won't happen? I don't think that DAZ would be able to update Bryce to the extend that it could match Vue. They will continue what COREL did - they will suck from Bryce 5 as much as they can, then they will sell it to someone else. The talented team that conceived Bryce does not exist anymore - without their knowledge, the real development of Bryce is very unlikely.

In hands of unskilled people neither Bryce, Vue or Maya will produce interesting results, but if you have this precious gift to art , why confine to old software that limits your potential ?

Vue 5 new features are simply amazing - GI/radiosity/HDRI produce QUICKLY outstanding renders.
New graphic function editor allows you with almost limitless possibilities while setting new materials or new procedural terrains.
Import of objects works very well, even most of material information is correctly transferred.
Text editor is an amazing tool that enables you to model from simple font shapes very complex objects - just take a look on a sample scene I quickly set with ONLY font objects - (it was the first time I experimented with font editor).
Metablobs modeling also seems very interesting - you can "blob" cubes, pyramids, cylinders, tours, cones and of course, spheres - each can have its own material that would merge with other metablobed objects materials.
Not to mention previous Vue 4 features that makes Vue the easiest powerful 3D program available.

Hope to see you soon in Vue gallery :-))))

Cheers !

Robert

Message edited on: 10/20/2004 13:28

WOW ! When I read about such strange problems I thanks God that on my machine everything works smoothly. Maybe your problems are linked to some hardware trouble ? I had on my machine in the same time Vue 4, Vue 4.5 Pro , Mover 5, and Vue 5 - each of them reinstaled several times (when new versions or Beta were available) and I never encountered any problems during instalation. I run Windows XP on AMD Athlon 2000+ , 1 GB, G-Force 5600 Asus A7N8X motherboard (nForce2)

Really strange - maybe you should try to reinstal your Vue or Windows ? I run Vue 5 on less powerful engine Athlon 2000+ 1 GB and have no problem at all - everything works smoothly - even my huge scenes (that I made on Vue 4 or Vue 4 Pro) opens well. Have you tried to contact e-on help desk ? I think they can help you better than people here - they know their soft and potential problems.