Okay, Sir Legume, so you ask me why it is WRONG, the way you would plan on winning? I actually wasn't implying clone voting because if that was the case I would think the site folks would catch on and stop it immediatly. I also stated that if the way you recieve votes is not illegal, it SHOULD be, but I never said it WAS. If it WAS illegal, then I guess a lot of political folks and such would be in big trouble too. See, I find this place to be an art site, not a political arena. I think that what you, Sir Legume, and this Mr. Mosca are doing is making all this into some kind of political statement, maybe even some kind of popularity POINT, or to set some kind of "example", and at the expense of what and whom? All the other artists and whatever credibilities this place has to lose with this contest and the prizes included, that is what and whom. See, the top twenty stuff, (I have been following this stuff adamantly), is one thing, it can be just so much back patting and glamor voting and yes, a lot of times a cool way of aknowledging your friends, being acknowledged, and also merchant market criterias being in the highlight; as well as some really cool artists that do pop up to really deserve all the ooh aah millenium comments galore. But the top twenty isn't about real prizes and it doesn't represent the entire site when it comes to artistic merit and artistic value and artistic substance that is presented here by the many hundreds, maybe thousands of artists that reside here day after day, sharing, learning, selling and even just being beautiful. As much as I really DO find your artwork incredibly original, stylish and especially contravesial Sir Legume, I honestly believe your many friends vote for you on "personality" and "popularity" and "friendship" and on a "wit" basis and although it is wonderful to have many friends both online and off and to be liked by tons and tons of people, I ask if THIS is the right way to win a contest that is about "ART", not about any "person". If this place was to hold a big contsest on "Forum Man of the Year" I would be VERY unimpressed if you did not win that one hands down Sir Legume, you would deserve this honor without a doubt, but THIS is not about you and what a wonderful person you are and how witty you may be and how loud you can get Mosca or anyone else to scream on your behalf, or how many laughs you can gather up at the expense of whatever lunacy may be happening here that you can mock about this place, it is about...ART. Art that has something to say about this site, represents this place, and not just as a cocky reminder of the absurdeties here or to make an editorial jackass crusade out of Renderosity, but to make this place have a symbol, an expression, a portait so to speak of what this place is "supposed" to be about for ALL the people here, members that come here, work here, share here, sell here, learn here. Your art speaks great things Sir Legume. It is a laugh a minute. You have made me laugh with your art more than anyone here many, many times. But I also know that many times the laughs you portray are subtly and even sometimes blatantly directed at this place and the people here. I question if that is really what all the folks here would want to have represent this place above all the other artists that also put very much "emotion" into their work, only not quite as determined to transmit a message with each rendering about whatever is absurd here, but what may actually bring "hope" and "crediblity" to this place for many, even if it may be a hard task ahead at times. See, it is one thing to make funnies out of a place, I think that is very cool and I enjoy the humor too. It can make folks see how silly they are and maybe even fix the problems; but I don't know if this place wants to really be the most laughed about art site on the net, there is more here than just whatever funny disinclinations an artist with your amazing style can find and point out time and time again Sir Legume. Please do not think I am making fun of you Legume. Fact is I admire your wit and art. But I think that your brand of winning is more about "statement" and a "personality contest" and I don't really think that is what this site had in mind when they ran this contest. I may be entirely wrong here and don't claim to speak for anyone, or this site, I just speak for myself, and what I have seen and continue to "see". My opinion is mine just as Mr. Mosca's is his and so on. I should be allowed to post my opinion whether I am an artist or not and whether I am new or old here. I know what I see and feel and that should account for something. I also wonder if all those folks you have come here to vote for you ever really come back to Renderosity for anything else but that, to vote for you. See, that is another problem I have. All those folks come here to vote, but they don't really know what this place is about, they can't because they only spend enough time here to "vote for you". I wonder if they even look at the art here or much of anything at all? Would all those many, many votes your nourish really, truly be a great representation of all the folks that really do spend quality time here? Happy Boxing Day

"I think the voting was stopped because of stuffing the ballot box and Legume admitted he did it." See, now THIS is what really bothers me too, only I didn't really wanna say it so..."bluntly", especially over the holiday spirit time and also because I am 'green' here, (thanks Micheleh for that wholesome, welcome thought). See, from what I "see" going on around here, this Sir Legume, as much as I DO admire him, and his sidekick Mr. Mosca, used a little, maybe even a LOT, of hanky panky to Administer their own brand of "winning" foreplay. Don't get me wrong now, I really do enjoy Sir Legumes art and all like so many others and I think he has every right to be a candidate for top running, but I did see it admitted about the "stuffing" and I somehow find it very, very difficult to believe that as good as Sir Legume's artwork is, that he would excel so very quickly and even overtake ToxicAngel in the ballot box with such incredible speed and accuracy. By all reasonable accounting and logic this just does not make sense, and I am a Professional Engineer. So then you heckle people tell me about what is FAIR and proper?? You dare want to preach about fairness Mosca?? Anyone else?? Someone want to tell me again how the site staff are being so mean and so cruel to their members by wanting to keep this for honorable intentions instead of having a winner by "stuffing"?? I had a Turkey dinner yesterday and saw that stuffing makes that Turkey a whole lot bigger and a LOT more Turkey for the buck, it gave everyone a much bigger meal, and that's good; but when applied to voting and ballot boxes I don't think it's all that tasty at all, in fact it might even be illegal in itself. If it isn't, it should be. Can anyone possibly tell me how winning this way is RIGHT?? Is it really fair to all those other nice artists that are up for winning that never had any stuffing at all? Perhaps you heckle folks should all re-establish another motive because this one you have just is NOT going to work at all, in fact it sounds REALLY dumb and absurd when you think about it!! Merry Boxing day.

Well, in "that" context of 'Who are you'...being 'green' and all, I am but a new member that after looking at the galleries here for some time, one day finally decided to actually join up to the rest of this big place to see what all the fuss was about. I was astounded to see a whole gigantic online community world filled with artistic folks that shared and cared and learned from each other and in a weird way I wanted to try to be a part of all that 'belonging' I saw here all over. As a newcomer I actually see a lot of value here in resources and especially in talent galore and I think that the folks that create and run this kind of forum that can bring so many mindlike folks together, well, they certainly have to have had some family spirit about them. I know this place is also a business, the front page alone is proof of that, however people like me can still come here and not even pay a penny, post anything I want to if I was that inclined, write here to my hearts content, even complain till I am blue or just shoot the shit if I wanted to. I see all that happening here all over. I think that even though there is indeed a business side to this place, there is also a very wholesome side as well, a side that cares enough to bring all you folks together time after time again and allow many of us to have a home away from home even if it IS online, so that we can sit in comfort in our little real world homes and have a place to escape to and be with many others from all over the world that we would probably NEVER, ever meet, nevermind share so much talent, beauty and knowledge with. Maybe because I am new here I don't really understand the frustration some folks seem to feel from this mistake that seems like an honest error made by someone that seemed caring enough to claim responsibilty for it, but after finding and realizing so much I do like about this place, I would really not like to see it be any less than it is just because of some seeming hecklers that appear to be making a mountain out of a moehill for whatever selfish point THEY are trying to make and pin on the site owners here. That is what it seems like to me, Billy, a new guy that can't understand how the many good things I see here can be so overwhelmed by some few that would hold so much dissention even though it is obvious they actually DO like it here after all. Be Merry for Christmas is here.

"Billy, I could have sworn you were asking to drop the subject several days ago, now you are posting and starting posts more than others. Who are you really? I mean besides this new BillyJ?" JDexter, perhaps I do have a little more time on my hands than usual. I am on holiday and finally have a chance to catch up on the gallery here and I seem to be enjoying the guts of what makes this place run and come together more and more as well. I hope that's okay? As for who I am? I am Billy James. I have little to hide other than a mole on my left, well, maybe that is something a little too personal. I take pictures for hobby and like to think I am pretty good, I like the female form and find more and more 3d generated art, especially poser art, following the path of what I like to view. I am unfortunatly not an artist so I depend on those that can do this for me, like so many here do. Happy Holiday JDexter

Ms. Chailynne, I don't recall anywhere on this forum seeing anyone that runs this place stating or even "hinting" that they dislike any of the artists up for AOY, if there was such a thing, THAT would be so heartless and unforgivable indeed, nevermind very unprofessional. I also do not recall seeing a clear winner outcome from the dreaded poll results that the hecklers here fly by the seat of their pants on, had there been, this would also be very unforgivable, although I do NOT comprehend why the folks that voted for ToxicAngel who WAS winning in the polls, did not make an even bigger fuss than those heralding Legume. It would seem ToxicAngel being in the lead had way more to lose, and yet the screams of "disgrace" for ToxicAngel were not even evident here on the boards at all, they were all about Legume who was in second place?? Somehow that makes no sense to me? What I do see here is a very frustrated staff trying very hard to save face about a very unfortunate, big mistake they unintentionally made in how they wish to Administer such an IMPORTANT event as this "Artist of the Year" and many members/hecklers here jumping gleefully at the opportunity to make this a bashing fiesta for whatever cause may motivate them. I also feel bad for Legume because this artist Legume seems to be in the middle of it all and may even be feeling less than he is, he shouldn't, his art is incredible stuff. With all due respect, I cannot help what "I" see just as much as the hecklers cannot stop "heckling." Merry Christmas to you Chailynne

Ms. Micheleh, if you happen to follow any of those 51 posts you would notice that I have confessed more than once that I am not an artist at all, I only come here because I enjoy to look at 3D art. I started interacting on the discussion boards a little while ago because I wanted to be more a part of what makes this place and the members here come together, moreso an attempt to really find out the personal aspects behind all the great art here, and the folks that might run such a place as well. I find it fascinating the things I have learned and continue to learn. I don't really comprehend entirely what you are implying with your statement here but I assure you, I am just an average Joe member called Billy that has an incredible passion for enjoying the art here. I wanted to get to know this place more, and I have, and I happen to like it here. I think the scribblings among all the artists and creators here can enhance the entire scope of all you feast visually in the galleries. The art speaks for itself but the acoustics and the canvas are brought together upon the discussion board interactivities here. Makes everything so much more rewarding. Merry Christmas

Yes Sir Legume, I was actually just being wholesomely nice to you, perhaps with a very subtle hint of contraversy. See, although I may not express myself with "artistic" flare here, that I probably could not even near master as well as you, I try to fashion that same ambiance you cast so "creatively" with humor, style and wit in your art with whatever I manage to "write" here. Writing words is what I have at my disposal, and if it worked well enough for you to reply with a "Heh. There is no spoon", then perhaps my written form is indeed worthy of those very same contraversial passions you excel so well in the galleries here. I can only hope to be so crafty with my wit and style with anything I do. In so many ways it is all in fun, although let it be known that there is a very serious message behind any pun, which I am certain I need not remind someone such as you who can make people laugh and think at the same time with your fascinating artistic jargon. I wish you well, you are indeed very talented, and again, a very Merry Christmas to you! lynde, thank you for replying on my behalf but you have your own share of hecklers to fend off. A very Merry Chrismas to you as well.

Yes Mongo, the beat certainly does drum forever here it would seem. I have found it rather amazing how easy it is to find dance partners in this forum just by having a difference of opinion to all the "hecklers" here. When it comes down to it, I sometimes wonder how the people running this forum ever DO get anything of value done for this place at all, what with all the constant consistent hecklers and jecklers they have here that seem to think they have a right to run amock evertymine Ms. Tammy or whomever else just raises a wrong finger or says anything out of the hecklers' context. I am inclined to understand how the forum personel CAN INDEED make mistakes here now; they have to tip toe on such egg shells around here for the constant concern that they might piss off the hecklers and start another long tirade, it must be like walking on marbles or a mine field too many times! Schumacher, grade school has nothing to do with it at all. Far too many times the higher your education, or should I just say, school level because many times the "education" part is questionable even still; the more apt you are to have even colder, harder monetary morals. I suppose what I mean is I see a lot more University Grads trying to pull a fast one via contests and scams than I ever see from those lower life forms, (as you would see them). I could care less if the folks running this place are low life form grunting numbskull Neanderthals that froth at the mouth and just created this place on a fluke with a 486 computer one day, or whether they are President Bush and family in disguise or even Bill Gates and family with the best darn servers possible; we really should be more grateful and show more respect and stop this infernal heckling. If you really want something to ponder, what if Bill Gates ever did buy this forum some day and I am sure the first thing he would do is change the name to Microsoftosity; I would like to see the tunes change around here then. The hecklers would drown in their own excrements full of excitement. Deck the halls, a joyful Christmas day to you and all.

Now you people know why I never comment on anyone's artwork. I look and adore the art in the galleries. I cannot do art myself so I respect anyone that can even draw a stickman, but to actually put something into your art that makes me think "feelings" as well as just the beauty of a stroke or color, now that's ART!! But I dare never comment, and the things like what is said in this thread here is why. I would rather just enjoy the views than concern myself whether I am saying the right thing under someone's sensitive art, I do not wish to uninspire anyone but I also want to think what I want to think. No reason to risk a good artist never posting again just because I say something that sounds off to them, I can't take that chance because I depend on them to create my imaginations here. But I also don't want to just go ooh aah.

Do you like it here Schumacher? Would you rather not be on the forum from hell at all then, since the folks that run this place seem to be so bad and mean and evil and most probably devils? It would appear as if there are a lot of folks around here that just cannot stand this place at all, not even at Holiday Time will they stop their spitting and tossing tomatoes at the host of this place because dear Lord, they made a horrible mistake and shall be damned to hell for it forevermore! Even an apology is not good enough. Not even if this Ms. Tammy were to lop off her head before all of you, would you let up. You would probably ask for another limb, an arm, a leg, when will it stop? I do admire your passions for rightiousness, I do not adore your lack of compassion for human err. Perhaps you or Mosca should start lighting torches to lead the maddening crowd, the castle awaits and the folks that run the place are Mr. and Mrs. Frank N. Stien. Cast your stones while you can, tomorrow you may actually all wake up happier about something in this place again. Heavens!

Please don't take away the viewers right to see your art with their own imagination. I happen to enjoy the harsh stroke of contraversy as much as a very good painting may be "as is" for the quality and the gentle stroke of the brush that nourished it upon its' canvas. You cannot possibly mean to suggest artists throw up signs saying their art means THIS and THAT and no one shall be allowed to see it different, that would just be so very wrong and cruel and could take away inspiration and value galore. It is very important for me to see what I wish to see in art, it just makes the whole viewing so much a delight for me especially since I cannot create anything more than a chicken can. And even chickens can lay eggs. Please allow the art to keep telling me magnificent stories within my own mind because if you try to get art to stop doing that, much like a bad video it can quickly become just another egg in the coop. Art is precious, and a chicken just tastes good with stuffing.

Why that's just plain old silly Sir Legume, where do you see that said? I looked at that post at least four times and still don't see any hint or mention of you being excluded from Ms. Tammy's good wishes. I am sure she meant "all" with sincerity even to you Sir Legume, I mean come on, you add so much substance and delightful wit to this place with all your great art, I am sure she knows that as much as anyone here. I guess what I am saying is, please stop being so hard on yourself Legume, your work really is good; instead of feeling like this you really should be feeling wonderful for having such top banana recognition here! You know what they say, instead of looking at the glass half empty, look at it as being half full instead, and in your case, it is three quarters full. Hard to beat that. Lots of folks here envy you Legume, and many more will sing songs in your honor one day, you will see. Happy Holidays to you.

And all this could not be asked or discussed further in e-mails? After all that has happened here this passed while you still go on and on? Am I the only one getting sore ears about all this? Do you have a nagging wife Mosca? With no offense meant at all I only ask this because sometimes those that do usually have a lot of issues, like you seem to. I can understand folks being frustrated around here about mistakes being made but Mosca, you are clearly sounding a lot like a broken record here now. It is Christmas time and I cannot even hear Rudolf's bells nevermind Santa going ho, ho, ho because you keep singing the same song so very loud over and over again. Maybe it's time to sing carols instead because they do blend in so much better with the yuletide? Am I really the only one getting a little tired of the complaining about the same thing? I do apologize for my own words, but this all just seems so Grinchly to me after a while. Happy Holidays and may you get many nice presents Mosca, I mean that sincerely.

Happy holidays to you Ms. Tammy, and thank you kindly for making it possible for me to enjoy so much beautiful, wonderful art here. I know you don't make it, but you do make it possible for me to be here to view it and I suppose I better go and thank that Museum owner next time too, and the art gallery owner, and the Science Center owner, and, oh, I forgot, they all charge money to get in, you don't. Thanks for that. Free good art is certainly hard to come by unless I want to look at the odd looking statues in the government buildings that no one can figure out what they are. Even the bum widdling stickmen on the city corner wants a hand out. What am I going to do with a silly stickman anyways? Be merry Tammy and may you have a Jolly Holly Christmas and a Happy New Year.