I think we have seen this quite a few times in the past, and not just with server upgrades, but contests, TOS rules, and other interesting inflictions that affect everyone globally. They don't ask for any community input, they simply leap ahead and do what they are going to do regardless. They start listening when the entire community is shouting complaints and dislikes, then things start falling into place and making sense. I think it would have been a great service to have community input on all this prior to the upgrade, and I have seen quite a few mention the fact that the MarketPlace is shared by the merchants, as well. They should have had more input as they are directly affected by sales, and the customers and users could also offer suggestions thrown upon the pile to help round out the list. It's in the admin's best interest to make things as smooth as possible for everyone and create a better environment to peruse, it just would have been nice to initially take those steps together as a community. The MaketPlace was a good target starting point because I can't even imagine the disarray that is ahead for the Gallery section; I cringe even thinking about that aspect already. It will work itself out eventually, but it will be some rough sailing at the start. And as a carpenter, the metaphorical remarks are quite well stated and very much relative. There is also a degree of improvisation due to faulty engineering as ScottA points out, and the 'looks great on paper' theorem is always in effect and is where planning gives way to realistic conditions and cause and effect. I think it's fair to say that we do voice our opinions about this site because we do love it here and it's our home to share, grow, and learn together as a community. And when the flow is hampered by change or things that completely elude our logic, we are here to voice our concerns to help steer the ship in the right direction. After all, if the system goes the way of the hula hoop and the majority of the users and vendors leave out of disgust, it really won't matter what the MarketPlace looks like as it will be covered in cobwebs. I believe there is a great deal to be learned already from this endeavor, and let's hope next time that the events leading up to the planning of change include input from the community to arrive at a happy medium for everyone.

I always used the 'Back' button on IE anyway, and if I comment I just hit it twice and I'm right back in the galleries in the same position looking at the thumb. I know this doesn't help the problem, but it's a workaround for now I guess.

I just noticed something that really needs to be fixed. When you click on the 'Sample Image' links and go to say promo image #2, it doesn't highlight which promo image page you are on. I ended up clicking on the same one twice because it doesn't state which one you are viewing. I also noticed yesterday that it stated on top of the MP how many members were online, and now it doesn't. I thought that was kind of a cool feature that should be put back in. The 'Baby' page will hopefully be replaced with a nav menu like the old version...I dunno about everyone else, but when I see that baby I want to toss. I'd rather see an angry demon rising from an inferno, that would be more symbolic.

It might be too early too tell at this point, but I certainly hope they will work on the details of the MP because it's just plain ugly! I click on the MarketPlace link and the first thing I go to is a useless page with a baby on it. Can you please get rid of that page and have a display or menu to navigate the store instead? Also, I prefer the menu on the right side and there should be an option to change it, as well as the colors of the page like the galleries. The bright white hurts my eyes over time and I recently switched to a black background. I also think the product price and info should be on the top of the first promo image like before and the formatting of the text and lack of buttons really gives the pages an amateur look and feel. Hopefully the asthetics will be rectified and the functionality will return. I click on the Galleries link from the MP and it takes me to a generic screen that I have to hit the Gallery link on the top of the page to see anything. More clicking, more fumbling. I think perhaps a template of the old site should have been made and transfer the new store over with the same look. It really is too soon to be in a panic and there will be lots of changes implemented, but so far it's the most ugly store on the net! LOL!

"Learn to crawl, this place is slower than ever." Or; "I'll be 35 by the time you find what you're looking for!"

As far as I know, they haven't touched anything regarding the galleries and it's extremely slow here on broadband cable still. Matter of fact, the worse it's ever been. I think you are just experiencing a lucky trickle of bandwidth and a burst of rare speed from all the users that the new market place is turning away. Laffs

Focusing in on the postive aspects of the new market place will really cut down on some typing time for me! I will say that compared to the galleries, the speed is quite a bit better as images actually display within one minute! Laffs Other than that, the functionality has diminished and so many features are missing that really made it convenient before the change. Hopefully they will be implemented in time after stabilization, but we shall see within the next few weeks. What I'm nervous about is the change over in the galleries. I can just see everyone's comments deleted because they couldn't transfer all of it over to the new upgrade. But I digress...

From a comparitive list thus far, this is what I have arrived at as far as opinion: Pros: The Market Place is quite a bit faster now compared to the galleries here. Cons: 1.) Please lose the baby on the first page, it's annoying. Please Let's go directly to the MP. I'm here to shop and research, not start a virtual family and rejoice about rubber infants. 2.) Allow the user to shift the menu from right to left in options. I dislike my menu on the left side as I'm right handed. 3.) Upon pulling up a product page; I dislike the fact the price is below the first promo picture now. You force us to look at stuff before we know we can afford or even want. Most of the stuff we don't. 4.) Where are the wishlists??? Come on now, you don't think I'll buy everything you want me to upon first glance?? Give us some time, and perhaps we will fill your coffers. 5.) Customized menus. I want to see shortcuts that I'm only intersted in, not what you force me to see. My world isn't yours, and vice versa. 6.) Did I mention wishlists??? Public and Private! This way we can monitor sales, receive gifts, and get organzied. But I'm sure you would rather want us scatterbrained and oblivious to pay full price on everything. 7.) I really miss "My Gallery" rolldown on the top to quick access IM's and my "life" here. I feel very isolated by this new store, like it's a subset of the site and I need to go to "galleries", then select mine. Too much trouble...I'll be in my gallery if ya' want me. 8.) My Perchase/Gift History is nothing but numbers, no names. I'm supposed to know that order #1982719872 is an order from orion1167??? I'm pretty good with numbers, but you riddle me with that one. You give us too much credit with memory. 9.) You never asked for user input with this endeavor, but just went through with it, as always. Great, the MP is a bit faster, but in disarray. You only have 300,000 users on this site, you can't ask for a survey?? 10.) I'm not buying anything here until these issues are cleared up. Period. It looks more like a flea market than anything viable in the real world. And we are talking real, right? Wating for galleries to be erased next -Shardz-

Meredith did indeed take a leave of absence from this site (and perhaps life in general, as well) to focus on a major project at work that apparently was going to make or break the company. We used to keep in touch regularly, but all her attention had to go into this project and she hasn't been heard from since.

I believe she will come back some day once they finish up with the huge architectural bid pending on those results. I really do miss her quite a bit, as well. Meredith was a sweetheart and had something good to offer everyone in her own special way. I don't think there has been anyone else who has tipped this site on its ear quite like she did. Quite a few have left this site in the past, and they have later on resurfaced. I have faith she will return, but I just hope she doesn't try to catch up on 75,000 ebots when she does! LOL!

P.S. LOL! I am most definitely not Meredith, RGUS, but perhaps I'll go on record as saying that I learned a few things from her! I just wish I had her educational history! Laffs

-Shardz-

Message edited on: 01/12/2006 02:16

ynsaen: a very nicely written and factual message, and I agree with a lot of your points. I would also like to wish Karen and all the mods here a very happy New Year's, and they have been doing a fabulous job here on this site. It's no easy task. I propose we stop this thread, please for now. And just let us give thanks we are alive and to celebrate the holiday with our loved ones and friends. It was indeed bad timing to bring all this up, and it's like a car dealership weeding out through the inventory, but I would rather continue this later in respect to the mods, their families, friends, and all of ours as well. Karen, or whomever; can you please lock this thread as I started it, and I wish you and all the wonderful people who given so many countless hours to this forum thanks. Have a wonderful New Year and God bless you all for caring. Let's start a new year and grow together as a community! Happy New Year and my very best! -Shardz- Message edited on: 12/31/2005 02:18

ynsaen: a very nicely written and factual message, and I agree with a lot of your points. I would also like to wish Karen and all the mods here a very happy New Year's, and they have been doing a fabulous job here on this site. It's no easy task.

I propose we stop this thread, please for now. And just let us give thanks we are alive and to celebrate the holiday with our loved ones and friends. It was indeed bad timing to bring all this up, and it's like a car dealership weeding out through the inventory, but I would rather continue this later in respect to the mods, their families, friends, and all of ours as well.

Karen, or whomever; can you please lock this thread as I started it, and I wish you and all the wonderful people who given so many countless hours to this forum thanks. Have a wonderful New Year and God bless you all for caring. Let's start a new year and grow together as a community!

Happy New Year and my very best!

-Shardz-

Message edited on: 12/31/2005 02:18

Sounds like we are in a giant secret pit stop here. As I said earlier (800 posts ago), they are trying to fix the wheels before the engine with no flag to the driver. Absolutely the most unorganized event I have ever seen on any site to date. I'm really getting irrate with this entire unorganization, and I have more joy fixing my mom's computer.Laffs If this does't get resolved soon, I'm not posting here anymore or purchasing anything from this market, I'm just that tired of this. I won't even go into what SQL stands for, but it's not about efficiency. If I was admin on this site, I would advise all in the general forum of what is transpiring globally. I'll be in the market place in about 2-3 months, but I'm not sure it will be here with all there lame minor problems that stem into anthems due to lack of communication. The Chinese at least had an Abacus...perhaps flash cards are in order here for 2006?

Well, thank you, Iggy, for letting us know what a Holding area is here. I thought that was just for legal detainment at the police station. LOL! You know, after 97 responses, it would have been nice for the mods (they are doing a fantastic job, btw, no condemning from me) or someone to come out and explain this to avoid mass boycotting. I have never seen a site with so much tension before and I think it's due to the shroud of mystery and lack of communication in a place where we let our imagination and dreams loose. I can only speak for myself when I say that I pour my heart into what I do, and it's almost like a betrayal to pull up a page with that prop you have had in your list for 6 months for your scene and to see it gone. All I have to say is this; I don't see any of this at DAZ. I will gladly trade in the nipples for a stable marketplace. Perhaps because they have had a steady ruleset from day one and they don't change their minds every week on their TOS. Anything can happen at a drop of a hat here, and some people (like myself) plan scenes; this means characters, props, hair, etc. Some of it I don't have and intend on buying when I'm ready for production of a scene. It really stems down to what someone once said over a year ago here, and I didn't understand exactly what he meant. A merchant had something 'hot' that just went up, and he said, "Get it while you can". Now I know exactly what he meant. There is an Art to communication, and this site suffers from it greatly at times. Rumors fly like angry crows, but I was informed from some merchant friends, and even those 'accused' and have very different stories. But then again, I guess there are two sides to every coin. Even the three sided coins that seem to be dropping like rain around us here. Thank you for clearing this up, Iggy, and I suppose we'll just have to wait and see who shows up in 2006 and where. It's almost like running a Presidential campaign on the consumer side, I can't even imagine what it's like on the merchant side. A little comforting word on the admin's part would be nice to educate us on their part as it seems there are 10 different stories that seem to interact between several merchants. Let's clear the myth and get down to professionalism, Renderosity! This isn't the new Matrix IV movie we are talking about. You know it's getting bad when I start talking about modeling my own clothes and lingerie! I'm crazy enough to do it, too! Laffs

To Guida: Great attitude, I enjoyed reading that! I believe in pro-choice very much, and it's too bad the rest of the world doesn't think that way. So far, this month's casualty list includes the following: DarkWing-Zero - (All deleted solo products, going to DAZ) DarkScorn/Soulsilver - (Banned for some lame reason) NemainRavenwood - (Partially deleteded store) Baron Vlad Harkonnen - (Mostly deleted store) I'm upset about all of these for many reasons. 1.) DarkWing-Zero had announced she would be leaving and gave customers a notice her products would be here for one last week ending the 31st. They started disappearing way before this against her wishes and many didn't have a change to get them before they disappear. Very unprofessional of this site to do that. 2.) With Darkscorn/Soulsilver, there was a minor issue with a new pack and a major merchant here, and the site took the side of the Big $$ with no chance to fix the problem. I have the pack as a gift from them and have found no resemblences, but they are the new kids on the block, so... 3.) NemainRavenwood I'm not sure, but this merchant has been at DAZ for quite awhile anyway. Perhaps couldn't login to the site as it's up and down like a yoyo lately. 4.) This really sucks. The BVH stuff I use quite a bit and didn't get a chance to pickup all the V3 stuff I wanted. I also used his store as a reference for my credits list. No warning, no clue, just gone. Sucks! I'm sure this list will grow immensely over time, and if anyone else has any other disbanded merchants to add I'd love to see it. I need to contact them to make arrangements and do my commerce elsewhere apparently. Big pain in the ass, waste of time, and just plain lame. I'm not sure if all this is coincidence or somehow related to site issues or admin relations, but they are dropping like flies so to speak. If it was just some guy selling texture sets for the Freebie Pet Rock I wouldn't care so much, but these merchants and artists I consider to be a great loss to "our" community. I've been modeling my own stuff in Hexagon lately and I'm thinking of just making my own props and clothes for my images, forget this whole thing! Market this! Laffs

Well, I can see my self diluted thread sprouted wings overnight and took on several different ideals; some common and endless, and some other interesting points brought up.

I understand that DAZ has never condoned nude promo images, and I don't buy many characters there at all simply because most of my favorite character merchants are here...for the time being. If Renderosity wishes to simply globablly standardize Promo Image #1 and the product thumbnail, fine. Although, when I go to wyrmmaster's gallery, it's wall to wall breasts even in the product thumbs. The man sells boob morphs, that makes sense to me, no complaint.

What I believe I tried to state was that this site has bigger and more pressing issues at hand regarding bandwidth/server problems than to be adding to them by having merchants change these images until these problems are addressed. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of getting 'MySQL has gone away' (and trust me, not far enough) errors every weeknight and then waiting 5 minutes for a page to load on broadband cable.

Given these issues, and perhaps the underscoring tone of ruckus of quite a few merchants here, I'm simply stating we have more problems than 3D bare breast images to deal with, and they need to be the primary focus. If the site crawls down to a snail's pace (or down completely), promo images and the market place are completely rendered useless.

In other words, fix the engine before worrying about the tires. I understand a few weeks ago the ram was doubled in the servers, and from a diagnostic standpoint, this did not change the performance much.

Again, I'm not pointing fingers or assigning blame, but it just seems like another case of trimming the fat on a dead cow. And for the life of me I can't seem to put a finger on this site's priority list - the logic completely eludes me.

Server first, boobs later. I hope that is simple enough. =) Regarding Clint's business model of expanding the market; isn't a half functioning site and a slew of big name merchants leaving the site sort of countering that ideal a bit? And not only have we been losing quality merchants, but we have lost their art in their galleries and no way to even contact them as they have fled in exile. This just doesn't sound right to me and it is indeed creating a bit of a negative buzz on all sides of the fence of consumer and merchant. Not to mention some of us who have been working very hard for months to present a product to this store, but are very reluctant now. I think the model is driving in reverse here. =)

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 19:07