Jackson, Which version are you using? If 1.0 then there was a small problem which occasionally bit. It was addressed in 1.1, but not everyone found the update - I didn't until I reported the problem, and Howard pointed out I was running an old version.

Basically... No difference. Initial load as slow or slower. Subsequent reload is faster, but system seems slower after Poser unloaded - need to investigate, but have to run P5 to do that, and really don't see the point (to run P5 vs. P4). Run time performance exactly the same - still click and wait a second or 2 for effect to occur, or rather, click twice to reset the focus. Still consumes 98-99% processor during load, render, etc. (which might be acceptable if P4 compatible renderer was faster than in P4 - but it isn't). Still doesn't allow control back to Windows for screen refreshes, etc. Still, ... Well still the same IMHO, an ill behaved application that's almost ready for initial Alpha testing, and with some basic updating to bring it up to current Windows programming specs/standards could soon be ready for some serious Beta testing. :-) But in terms of applying SR3 to fix one of the very few specific bugs that were addressed, why not install? Win2k SP2, 1GHz/1GB. P5 was always stable on this system in terms of no crashes, no BSOD, but dog slow. But per CL posting of last few days no-one complains that its slow thus it presumably will never get fixed. (CL please see the thread of happy users as an unbiased control, even they say it's "Slow, OK" and "did most of the scene composing in Pro Pack beforehand", "slow transfer between anything", and similar. And this from the happy users, not the EVM!) 8.25 months ...

Actually just Save, Save, Save at any minute intervals won't always help. Need to alternate save locations, or increment the filename, OR keep checking the backup save file after a crash. Poser does actual make a backup copy before a save back to the same filename - can't remember the name of it right now, to protect when it eats it's young during a save. But it'll happily reuse it, so you need to fish it out before reusing Poser again (on the same .pz3).

Katherine, Thanks for "stepping in", and I agree that too much "speculation" has been generated "before SR3 has a chance to be released." But please take that as a sign of our desire for the product that we were PROMISED in Poser 5. And our frustration at the time it seems to be taking to get anywhere close. "(as Casamerica notes of 8 months from the original release though a couple months after SR2.1)" Actually, it will be exactly 5 months - not a couple - since SR-2.1 (12/06/02) by the time that SR3 is available. So given a couple of more releases on similar time scales, we'd be speculating early 2005 for completion of bug fixes? That's too far away to be taken seriously as Casamerica noted. We anticipated that SR3 would be the definitive release, so many of us were - basically - surprised that your list of fixes was so short, and indeed covered predominately specialised items in Poser, not the mainstream heavily used items used by all: file handling, posing, rendering speed, etc. (with the noted exceptions of file loading peformance enhancements, and the fix to update Material file locations). Drawing conclusions on how well the listed fixes work is total speculation, as you rightly say. But the majority of the responses to your earlier thread were related to items NOT listed in your posting. We are rightly, IMHO, concerned that unlisted fixes will not be fixed - at least in SR3. Isn't that the only reasonable conclusion for us to draw in the absence of other information? The only other possibility is that CuriousLabs has included a significant number of these fixes to pre-Poser 5 and Poser 5 problems, but has chosen not to list them because .... That one is REALLY hard to get behind, don't you see? If, OTOH, the "couple of items not listed" are substantial, like memory management, recompilation with current Windows File Dialogs, restored accuracy in parameter dials, etc., and are not being listed in case they are not ready in time for SR3 release; then PLEASE hold up the release until they are ready to go, so that they do get in this release. (And if that's not the case, does it really make any difference if we rant now, or when SR3 is released? ;-) To be really clear where I'm coming from, I have P4, I bought P5 because I had a choice between P5 and P4ProPack. I didn't need the interfaces to LW, etc., but wanted the multi-pane view, python, setup room, etc. Poser 5 was supposed to also have the Poser 4 bugs addressed, the balance of the ProPack features, and was the later product so it seemed the better buy. Now I would just like to be able to use it at P4/ProPack level on the same 1GHz/1GB system, to do what I can currently do in Poser 4, and without a majority of the bugs that plague 4-year-old Poser 4. Is that unreasonable? If so why? Is it also not unreasonable for me to expect that after 8 months? Please note that my stated requirements do NOT include a single Poser 5 specific feature! I cannot think that I have placed the bar unreasonably high. But it sure looks from here that that is still going to be too high for Poser 5 SR3.

To answer sandoppe: $ ? sandoppe, don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with your logic at all, except perhaps... the logic of raising this with the very same vendor who shipped Poser version 5.0 in the first place! ;-) And before someone jumps down my broadband connection, I know this is reportedly a different crew at CL, and these fixes may very well be very well tested, and tested in private at CL's expense as they should be. But in terms of what the fixes are (e.g. includes enhancements to the detriment of fundemental bug fixes), it sure looks like dvu all over again. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Cresent, I think Katherine's reference to caching files on first load is just a description of Poser 4 & 5 normal behaviour. Dunno what it does, but both 4 & 5 always load faster on 2nd load per OS boot. My concern is there's nothing mentioned about returning reaction speed of the dial manipulation to Poser 4 levels, or fixing the dials "roulette wheel" selection of the final value after you release it. Perhaps that's addressed but not considered important enough to list??? I'd even take an undocumented poser.ini option to switch back to Poser 4 hard-to-read dials, BTW. (You see, I can get better lenses, but I can't speed up time :-) Nothing about the 4MB memory leak either... I more than agree with you on the often fatal file not found error, but hey, it's only been about 4 years so far, so I would assume the non-EVM will ask us to be reasonable, and give them time to address it ;-) To TalonGE, the delay seems to be related to another memory leak at that point in its execution. Look at the memory usage during that period and you'll see it steadily climb throughout - on P4 as well as 5.

Manuals are always tricky for all the reasons that mickmca states - not that I'm defending any of them. But as Poser 5 wasn't working when it shipped, imagine what state it must have been in when the manual was released to press? While it's not a particularly good manual, particularly for reference use, I'm somewhat surprised it's as close to the actual product as it is :-O I have never been able to figure out why, with all the other cost cutting (off-shore development, rushed integration, skipped testing, premature release) Poser 5 has a PRINTED manual. Manual books are EXPENSIVE, printing, shipping and the time elemnet mickmca refers too. Would have made much more sense to just have a PDF version - could have had at least 1 month's more editing, and resulted in more "instant cash" return to boot. True the PDF version posted to CL's site was a little more up-to-date, but mostly fixes reported by the EVM not actual editing to ensure consistency with the product work. But then there are many things I don't understand about Poser 5's gestation, and probably never will...

Am I confusing something here, or is there really a contradiction being expressed? I know lighting changes the perceived color dramatically, but for a given light aren't inherently darker textures and use of underlying material colors contradictory? Only way I can see to use underlying mat colors is to make them darker than the default white many (most?) of us use. So unless the texture vendors give us the palest texture of the range, how can we go paler? Is there some way to go "whiter than white" that I'm missing?

No callous, but re sabretalon's sweat band idea, try Cosy Cuffs from Historic House Collection, +44 01 295 750100. They are modern versions of "gloves" originally used years ago by people who needed full finge/hand dexterity. Verco fastening sheepskin lined cuffs which keep the hands warm by preventing the heat loss from the blood vessels near the surface of the wrist. If they worked for poachers and the like over a century ago, they should work now. Ensuring a warm wrist seems like it should reduce incidence of future carpal damage, and it also keeps the wrist up off the desk. So light and comfortable you'll forget your wearing them. It'll raise the wrist just enough to unload the callous. Come in pairs so your set for life, unless you mouse with 2 hands ;-) Also I second (or third) the Logitech Trackman with thumbball. I never could use a trackball comfortably, but trackman seemed intuitve from day one, accurate and fast. And my hand never moves. Use the softest mouse pad you can find just as a comfortable soft rest and you're set. A startup was supposed to be launching a vertical mouse by now, although I've not seen it yet. Whole mouse is turned 90 deg, so your palm stays vertical. Imagine the optical sensor of your mouse being moved to be on the vertical right side of a normal mouse, and then the mouse turned on it's side to get the optical part pointing down again. Initial reviews were very positive. Whole new surface of skin & bone to wear away at :-O

Nice one, casamerica. But I'll risk it ;-) Nimesh, if you don't pose models yourself, i.e. you exclusively use 3rd party poses, and therefore the speed and non-linear non-responsiveness of the dials doesn't affect/concern you, then go for it. Otherwise load up P4 with several Mil Figures, clothes, esp. some ERC ones, and check the "feel" of the dials for response, overshoot, etc. That'll be what P5 will feel like on your system with just 1 Mil Figure with clothes. This crude analysis assumes that you have 512MB of real memory or better (more doesn't seem help with dials). Why now? If it's a deal that you are chasing, then it's a gamble you may need to take. Otherwise I'd wait a few more weeks (months) for SR3 to be released and tested by others first before slapping your money down. BTW, I'm in the EVM too! Have been since Day 1 + 3 (I was cheap and choose a ground carrier who - unfortuantely - DIDN'T lose mine).

But the problem - the sin of omission - of both Intuit and Curious Labs (with Poser 5) was that they were not up front about this crap. AFTER you've bought it they tell you. If they listed this "added freebie bonus" ahead of time so you as a consumer could make an informed decision then pakled's and casamerica's points would be entirely valid. While they keep this aspect of their product hidden they are casting every customer as guilty unless they can prove they are innocent - which much like arguing that you are sane when already incarcerated as an alleged loony - is next to impossible. As always, it's not what they did, but the manner in which they did it.

IIRC all individual Windows applications are limited to 2GB, although you'll need an NT-based Windows (2000, XP) to even reach that limit. If you exceed, or more likely come close to, that limit then Poser will become unstable. OTH, the "Not RAM" message comes up whenever Poser can't find a texture, asks if it should continue searching, and you anwser "No". At that point it'll throw a wobbly and tell you there isn't enough RAM on your system. This clearly has nothing to do with RAM, and is a bogus message. One could reasonably call this a bug in any other application, but as Poser has exhibit this behaviour for years spanning at least 3 releases, one is reluctantly force to conclude that the developers designed it that way, and consider it a feature! ;-) Of course, no current applciation should EVER need 2GB of memory, real or virtual at one time, that's something an OS can handle, but Poser doesn't want to let it... The only contribution that Poser5 makes to this mess is that it uses more memory than earlier versions, so you start off from a higher start point even before you load anything into the scene.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12440

Much of Loser5's problems are due to memory. They are actually inherited problems from Poser4, I've reproduced all the Loser5 problems in features shared with Poser4, in Poser4 - they are harder to make occur, you really have to load up the scene, but they are there. But the new features in Loser5 are huge and they are also *always* memory resident along with all the Poser4 stuff, and so further starve the earlier Poser4 ones of memory resulting in yet greater instability. This has been a continuing hypothesis since 5.2's release, but check out the Poser 5.2 Forum (yes it still exists) for williamsheil's very enlightening explanation of Poser's Memory Management - or lack thereof in his response to "P5 Memory,... Oh I forgot." 3/27 - 29. It's worth reading if only for Bill's priceless term 'bedroom programming' ;-) Fingers crossed for SR3 fixing underlying problems not just the newly-created-in-Loser5 problems... (Violence warning flag turned on for benefit of those who would hear nothing ill said of CL or Poser5 :-)

Another common scenario is where retailer makes original deal to sell X units, and thus gets a discounted wholesale price. If it doesn't sell in the volumes anticipated then the retailer owes the wholesaler additional monies. So then they have 2 choices, pay back the wholesaler the volume discount they didn't meet, or raise sales volume somehow. No idea if this is that case. But this was probably not an excess stock assignment per se, as Amazon had to wait for new stock to come in - they were out of stock at the time the lower price was announced, with a 2-3 week wait for supply. All kinda moot if the product value isn't there. IMHO it isn't even at $99 unless you don't have any copy of Poser at all to updgrade from (to P4). Certainly wasn't at last year's price!

evilded777, Poser 5? Poser 4 behaves as maclean said, but in one of P5 2.x betas a bug was introduced that any texture replaced via a MAT (i.e it was already textured, but you applied a different texture via a MAT file - not sure if original material had to be applied by a MAT file, but it was in my case) was still listed internally as attached to the CR2 even though it wasn't linked, i.e. they just broke the link not removed the material entirely. So it does re-load next time .PZ3 is opened. I reported it at the time, but don't know if fixed in 5.21 final, as I'd given up on Loser5 by then, but CL said they would not support MAT's (as "user community developed") so probably not. Clearly a bug, so maybe in SR7 or 8 :-)