Quote - to my eyes, none  of those look any smaller than an A (i'd say a couple were larger) and heavier than your V4.  one looks like she might actually have something one site called a deformity (don't ask me, i don't  make these rules up about women's breasts).  but that does give me reference.

wait, you're turning the morphs back off after loading the morph, right?  because otherwise you're doubling the applied morphs.  if you applied these as FBMs, you'll have to apply the negative of the morph amount on the appropriate body part.

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

Well lets forget about age and cup size. Most dont seem to get my point anyway.
Its the shape im refering to and a approximate size. Just look at the pictures.

"wait, you're turning the morphs back off after loading the morph, right?"
I dont understand exactly what you mean ..??

Truning what morphs off? for what object? i which program?
Hexagon? Daz studio?

Since im very new in all this. I follow this tutorial from Daz very closely:
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/tutorial/tutorial/-/?id=1771

"if you applied these as FBMs, you'll have to apply the negative of the morph amount on the appropriate body part."

I apply Full body morphs(FBM i guess) definition(2.0), thin(0.30) and young(0.60)
to the full character in Daz studio before i export anything.
I have to do it first or else the breast problem wont excist.

Its especially the Definition dial that makes the problem(shown at pictures earlier in this thread)
But thats the dial providing a rather hardbody look, so i kinda need to apply it.

But are you saying?:
"if you applied these as FBMs, you'll have to apply the negative of the morph amount on the appropriate body part."

That i need to subtract 50% of the values, for the chest only FBM's, AFTER i import the modified work back into Daz studio using the Daz Morph Loader?

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - Which morph settings do you use for the body, LBJ2? I can try to make the morph for you, but since you already use a lot of morphs, I would need the values, or the new morph would not work. You probably use the already-morphed mesh as a base, which basically means that you double all previously applied morphs.

If you want to do it for yourself you will have to remove all previous morphs after loading the morph target, export the OBJ again and load the exported OBJ as the morph target. So jous should get an obj-file with your changes only, whithout other morphs applied.

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

I only worked with Daz studio for 3 months, and Hexagon 1 week.
So excuse me for asking stupid questions :)

What i use is:
Daz Studio v.1.8.2.1
V.4.1
NGM for V4
Ngm Petite for V4
1 homemade morph made in Hexagon 2.1 and imported to D|S using Morph Loader for D|S
And 55-60 different dials(most for breasts and NGM)

Yes i would love some help on this since im stuck.

But this would take that you have the 2 NGM products too, and Daz Morph Loader ?
And my custom morph(however i can distribute that to you) made in hexagon2.1?

"If you want to do it for yourself you will have to remove all previous morphs after loading the morph target,"
Not sure i understand that. Im not sure what Loading the morph target really means.
the term for "loading the morph target"?

Remove all previous morphs from what?

Remove all previous morphs on the full character before i export the chest from D|S to a wavefront object?

Remove all previous morphs on the chest before i export it from D|S to a wavefront object?

Remove all previous morphs on the chest,
after i have imported back into Daz Studio, the chest(wavefront object) modified in Hexagon,
exported from Hexagon as wavefront, and imported into Daz Studio using the Daz Morph loader.? This is SO hard to explain..

"export the OBJ again and load the exported OBJ as the morph target. So jous should get an obj-file with your changes only, whithout other morphs applied"

I got kinda lost there haha...
export the chest obj from Daz studio without any morphs applied to the chest i export?

This is the tutorial i follow when messing with it:
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/tutorial/tutorial/-/?id=1771

I do exactly what it says, except for that the tutoriale is for a head instead of a chest.

Sorry for being a smuck on explaining and understanding

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

> Quote - yeah, i would have said that body was _much_ softer and younger than what you're going for.  i've found older, and maybe one thin, but none as thin as your  V4.    the older thin women i know personally don't seem to have much droop at all, but i'll keep looking.  though it's _very_ depressing.  all the images i find are on plastic surgery sites, and they're all the befores.    the afters are mostly lifts and  "augments."  pretty much none stayed the same size. > > it's messing up the rib cage?  maybe you want to consult someone knowledgeable in morphing.  are you starting with the chest morphed or in default?  because if it's morphed, you need to undo the application of the morphs or they'll be doubled.  obvious, i know, but i thought i'd mention it. > > and good to know you're not giving up.

Hiya and thanks for the reply

Maybe this picture collage shows it better...

Yes something happen withwhole chest, not just the breasts on the morphs i make....
Its a strange problem. If i dont apply the wanted body morphs V4.1++ (fitness, thin, young emeciated) the breast problem dont appear.
But i actually think that its the fullbodymorphs that cause the trouble.

But if i dont apply them first... the problem wont appear when i get the wavefront object into Hexagon, and then there are nothing to modify from in hexagon...
I only used Hexagon for a week, bu i followed a tutorial everytime, making sure i did everything right.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

> Quote - all i can say is that the pic i did using NBM petite had my boyfriend calling them "banana boobs."  and i hadn't maxed out the hang, and wasn't working on a very old figure.   now that said, i was going for a softer body, so i sure didn't try those other settings.  but then i think a thinner body wouldn't have so much droop.   i guess what i'm saying is that you guys seem to be saying you can't get realistic (standing) gravity effects with V4 and present morphs, and i really have not found that to be true.  i've got some serious problems with V4, i'm really eager to see NBS for V4,  i've had a lot of difficulty getting most figure's breasts to behave realistically in a lot of different posses, and I think shaping morphs are always great.   but i've definitely achieved breasts that aren't "perky" or "Hollywood" or "Silicone." > > the problem i think you'll have isn't that the product doesn't exist.  you want to use this custom morph with multiple morphs, at least one of which is  i'm pretty sure is set to double what it was designed for.  i don't know that anyone's product will ever meet your needs, because those other morphs are changing the breasts, and i suspect substantially doing so. > > i found some possible reference images, though.  before photos on a plastic surgery site.  i _think_ i see what you're intending, but they're not smaller than A.  and the bodies i'm finding aren't _nearly_ so bony (not thin at all, in fact).  i'll keep looking though, because i've got a vague notion of  seeing how hard such a morph is to make. > > if you have Hex, why don't you try using that to make a custom morph?  and i realize that you don't _want_ to do it in Photoshop, it just seems to me that taking _maybe_  two minutes in a tool you already have is preferable to just giving up.   but if you'd rather wait for someone else to come along and match your artistic vision, it's certainly your choice and the one that most of us make most of the time.  i really sympathize with your frustration.  but i do think you should keep trying rather than giving up.  after all, how are things going to change if people like you don't show how beautiful difference can be?

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

Well first of all BF's/men are very different. But from my experience most boys/men from 15-35yo is cannonballers :)

Im a 46yo male  and dont like all the unnatural stuff. I like it natural.
Most women above 40 will start to hang here and there unless they chose to fill themselves with chemicals, of which i dont approve. One dont need to look like a 20yo to be beautiful. 
The natural aging proces of women and men is beautiful and charming by itself imo.
But most wont agree i guess.. so nvm.
And...Even skinny bodies with A-AAA cups can hang heavily, believe me.

I think my primary problem is, that i am to unexperienced with 3D yet.
I only worked with Daz Studio 1.8.2.1 for 3 months, and Hexagon 2.1 1 week.
And this kind of technical modifications is way over the head of a newbie.

I have made a custom morphin Hexagon, and import it back into D|S using Daz Morph Loader,
many many times, but the morph screws up the ribcage instead of fixing the breast mods i did in hexagon on the polygons.
No im not giving up, just expanding my timeline for getting it done :)
But Maybe i will learn to do it as time goes by. Take time to learn i think.

And thanks for your sympathy btw.

This is the best photos i've been able to find, Not all what i want, but its getting pretty close.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark.

Quote - > Quote -

And thanks for the tutorial. :)

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

NPB :)
I agree, female breasts are nothing like those in many Poser renders, no offence to artists, it's the model/morph set up that's very limiting and unrealistic :/

Hiya :)

True true....

But WHY do they all make V4's that look the same, only with different textures?

When you have seen one... you have seen them all i think... Botox, Cannonballs, Silicone aso... too much Hollywood :(

Maybe the new Victoria 4.2 from Daz would provide better breast adjustments... who knows
It should have been released yesterday, but was pulled back because of some last minute glitch i read.

It sound to me that we all have a V4.2 very very soon. Within a 1-2 weeks.

But i kinda fear its mostly some male V4.2 morphs... maybe they could help.. dunno yet.

But else im gonna await a maybe future product called. "Senior A-AAA cup hangers for V5.0"

Haha.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - i don't know if what you're thinking is quite realistic (i don't think even at 50 you'd see that line at that angle and breast size), but i was certainly able to achieve drooping with NGM Petite.  what are your settings?  and can you find any photos of the angle and effect you want?

definition 2.0?  that might be your culprit right there.  usually, morphs aren't made to go above 1.0.  well, non-Apollo morphs, that is.

yeah, i definitely think the morph is preferable.  that's why i suggested the custom morph. personally, i don't think magnets are at all good at this kind of fine morphing in the hands of ordinary individuals (read, people who are not Capsces), so it's probably better if you have Poser 7 and the morph brush, Zbrush, or some other program you can make custom morphs in. but if you use a program external to Poser, you'd probably want to start from your present morph.  which would mean you'd have the other morphs as part and parcel of your new morph.  which might take some finagling to work with.  either you'd want a whole, new, single Full Body Morph (not a bad thing) or you'd have to make sure to reverse the settings on the chest if you set the other body parts with FBMs.  either way, you wouldn't be able to distribute it, but i don't know if that would be a problem?

but even not being a postwork maven, it's really not hard.  if i wanted the harsh line you're talking about (which again, i don't think is quite possible with the breasts you're showing), it still wouldn't be long or difficult with liquify, blur, and a quick low opacity paint with a noisy brush .   using a pen and tablet with Photoshop is much easier, but this isn't major surgery.  i've had to do a lot more extreme stuff to most of my images. especially for V4,  but even more for Aiko and others. 

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

Well i would'nt want to make this into a debate on how 40-50yo small hanging breasts look.
I used the term "40-50yo mature A-AA-AAA cup" as a metafor. To make sure that people dont think i want to create something young and firm that sticks out into the air, like gravitation simply dident excist.

And no i dont use Poser yet. I use Daz Studio 1.8.2.1 and Hexagon 2.1.

And thanks for the Photoshop tips. But that isent the way i want to achieve my goal.
I want it from a dial/morph

But i really think that things have gone too far beyond my current skills on this matter.
Its getting way too complicated for a very small modification of V4.1 breast i think.

Even if the year is 2008, and the human race is capeable of sending people too the moon and so on...It seems that even small modifications to a simple 3D breast is so complicated that it would take too much time and effort to achieve.

Maybe some day i will be able to do it. But i only worked with this for 3 months.
And it's way too complicated for me.

I better sit down and wait untill someone developes
"Senior A-Cup hangers for V4.99" or so :laugh:

But thanks for trying to explain it to me anyway. I do appreciate that.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - yep,  about another 30 seconds.  is that acceptable?

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

Im not a PS7 shark, so i would like to achieve as much as possible from morphs as possible.

Its is close for the shape.
But they "Sit" too good, considering age should be 40-50yo. (And yes i know they sit very different even at age45+).
But the look i wanna achieve, need more hang . A little flatter and a little lower.
Its because i dont really like the perfect(in the eyes of the world) look on almost every V4 model i have seen so far. All the silicon/cannonball look isent really up my alley.
I like things to be more like ordinary and realistic. Just like natural women not filled with chemicals everywhere and so. 

I can get to results almots like the one you just did.
The problem appears when i apply fullbody morphs, like emeciated, fitness, thin and young. All with very Hardbody/skinny looking values.

Try and put V4.1 fullbody morph(from V4.1++ morph pack i believe) values for:

Definition 2.0
Thin 0.40
Young 0.25

I would think you should be able to see the spacing between lower breast and body, illustrated by my picture posts earlier in this thread.
(the aging look will of course have to come from the MATS).

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - I don't use Poser in great detail, as I export Poser folk to other apps for renders, but, as an Idea...

You can also improve the look after you render, in 2D, ie, paint out problems in Photoshop, or the like? :)

Old tutorial of mine ;)
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/artofadreamer/tutorials/htm/sb1.htm

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

Yes i know about the postwork in PS7 or other apps. I use postwork for single renders.
But thats a lotta work if you do a series of 50-100 renders.

I would like the morphs themselves to deliver the desired results.

And thanks for the tutorial. :)

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - just posting to say that NGM Petite is not for large breasts, but does require NGM.  even NGM isn't technically for larger breasts.  it's for applying realistic, parallel to the body gravity morphs (as opposed to NBS, which is under development, and for gravity morphs due to movement).   they go to pretty large cup sizes, but iirc, it's supposed to be about B-DDD.  that's kind of a debatable sizing because we're not talking about a real woman, and as far as i've seen from people's posts, there's a pretty wide range of people's estimates of cup sizes on these figures.  i will say they look pretty large to me, but then i haven't used them alone and tried to get them to work with V4's other morphs to make smaller cup sizes.  i've only used NGM Petite so far.  those I can say would probably do what you want to at least A cup.  look carefully at the promos and Posermatic's gallery and see what you think, because you would need to purchase both NGM and NGM petite. 

i'm tagging this post with nudity due to linking to Posermatic's gallery, which holds nudity.

Posermatic's Store
Posermatic's Gallery

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

The pictures i posted in "V4 Mature A-AA-AAA cup creation" thread
is made with Both NGM products. Since NGM petite demands that you own NGM for V4.
I bought both here at Renderosity.
But they dont seem to be able to do the job. Yes for the smaller sizes matter they are perfect.
But i cant get to the shape i want(i posted pictures of that earlier in this thread)
Im looking for a 40-50yo petite hangers look. If you get my point :)
A kind of realistic and natural look.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - I believe it is ockhams. 

Hiya

Excuse me for being from Denmark.

I dont really get it.

What are you trying to tell me?

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - I'd suggest, just to double check, setting the Emaciated morph to 0 and see if that's satisfactory.

Also, what is the amount you have each of the morphs set at?

Hiya and thanks for the reply

I can make the problem go away if i modify the fullbody morphs a bit.
But thats not what i wanna do since i want a bit of a hardbody look on the model.

But i think that i may have found a way to solve the breast problem.
Im exporting the V4.1 breast section from Daz studio as a wavefront object.
Then i imported it into Hexagon modeler and made the wanted modifications to the grid.
Exported the wavefront object from hexagon again.
Imported it back into Daz studio using morphloader.
It solves the breast problem, but has a strange side-effect, it seem to rotate the breast section on the Y-axis a bit.

A dude on Daz forum told me that Hexagon kinda MANGLES the new morph.
But there should be a script somewhere that solve the problem.
And it is that script im searching for at the moment.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - my apologies....did not pick up on your DazStudio usage. Others will be of more help....magnets and MorphBrushTool are Poser.

::::: Opera :::::

Hiya and thanks

Nah it's my fault :)
I posted this in Poser forum since i figured that there are more Poser users than D|S users.
I kinda hoped to get more response that way.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Quote - A-ha.

Magnets or MorphBrushTool would be my suggestion if all morph-dialing has failed.

::::: Opera :::::

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

Yes i have tried to dial my way in Daz Studio for 100 hours or so :)
No good.

But isent magnets for Poser only?

Where can i find MorphBrushTool?

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

Hiya all and thanks for the replies.

On the picture in this post.
The left one is what i get from a clean render.
The right one(postworked in PS7) is what i want from a clean render.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark

> Quote - well.....i have to assume you don't like the way this looks. To me the shadows under the breast are not that ugly. But if you don't agree then please try to answer the following: are the shadows you don't like being cast by lights, or are they the result of what's on the skin texture? > > If you can determine that they are NOT being caused by lighting, then your answer is to open up the .jpg file that serves as the torso skin texture in a 2D editing program and adust it to remove the darkness! > > I have done this before, because I took a run at creating a male morph for V4, and opening the Daz-supplied Hi-Res texture in 2D revealed that the skin under the breast is indeed darker and differenltly textured. This may be because, despite all attempts at flat lighting when creating a skin texture, there is still some shadowing there. It might also be 'nature's way'; women have slightly darker or different skin under average-sized breasts. > > So...take a shot at looking real close at the skin texture and learn how to change it to your liking. > > ::::: Opera :::::

Hiya and thanks for the reply.

It's too hard to explain. But i took the render into photoshop and made the modification i want as the final result from a clean render. Im not a specialist working in Photoshop. But i got pretty close to the desired result. Try look at this picture compare to the similar one with the red markings.

Changing the texture wont do it. There are simply too much space between the breast and the body. And i cant seem to get the lower breast closer to the body in any way.

Best Regards
LBJ Denmark