If you understand the function editor and use the Pro version of Vue, there is no way to put Bryce in the same category.

I also started with Bryce and still have it, but it does not compare nor should it. Bryce is free and with Daz Studio being free also, for a hobby you can produce some great stuff without buying Poser Pro or Vue.

To answer the question, if you are serious, can afford it and are experienced in rendering or 3D in general you only have one choice; Vue. If you go Infinite the only real limitation on what you can do is your skill level in the function editor and with lighting.

I jumped on the Maintenance right up front and get the latest Infinite always for one payment a year. Way easier and in the end, way cheaper. Works out about $20 bucks a month to have all the features. One lunch with my wife costs $30.

I use it a lot though and the I need some of the features in Infinite.

This is very powerful software folks and is actually cheap in comparison to other software in this category. The price is not out of line.

Most don't need or use the extra stuff in the Pro versions, so providing cheaper alternatives seems like a good thing to me also.

Bryce is free. Daz Studio is free and is quickly looking better than Poser Pro and free also. That's a great alternative. In the right hands Bryce put's out some nice stuff and Daz Studio stands in for Poser and will export to Bryce.

Mine showed up about five minutes after clicking it. You may want to check your filters. I had that problem last time with 10.5.

Installed no problem and so far so good.

Everything appears OK now. Downloaded very fast.

One of the first things to realize is that Vue will use all your system has to offer and the better the system the more you can do. What is will do is also related to which version you have. Obviously the Pro versions have features the others do not.

With Radeons you will want to use the fixed hardware pipeline I beleive. Vue runs better on NVidia in general (I've tried both) but you should be fine with that setup.

Since Vue is a software that is meant to take advantage of even highend workstations, you have to find what your system will handle. On Cornucopia and the E-On forums you will find threads on controling render times.

In general the better the quality, the render time will go up exponentially. Size of the render is important also. Doubling size quadruples render times.

Good clouds, transparency, large resolution textures, large poly count models and reflections are all things that will greatly increase times but are what gives realism.

Mostly have fun. GeekAtPlay is your best freind.

E-On and Cornucopia are both down.

My archives are at around 600 gigs these days. It's a combo of models, textures, photo's and what not. The largest being photo's as I use professional gear and the RAW files are huge for each photo. It's not unusual to fill up a half dozen 8gig CF cards in a day. I'm blathering.

The sollution I settled on is a Thermaltake product called BLACX. It connects via eSata (USB is a fossil) and allows me to use SATA drives like a USB flash drive. It holds two hardrives and the computer sees them like an internal drive. You just slip a hard drive into a slot (holds two, but they make one that holds one). My files are saved on both drives in case one fails.

You can buy anti-static cases for hard drives I think are mainly used by network folk, but you have to search and order them over the Internet. Now I keep two harddrives containing the same files until they are full and then throw two more in. I leave then half empty though for performance sake. 1Tb drives are dirt cheap now.

I use USB 32 gig flash drives to transport files between work and home and then place the files on the SATA drives. Because the connection is eSATA it's fast and easy.

I've noticed some external drives have eSATA now. I have some externals but always bought them with firewire connection and now I only use eSATA. Got rid of those nasty slow USB things.

It does not cost me that much compared to what loosing the files would cost me in time, expense and plain old work. One trip to photograph the Redwoods in Northern California cost me over $5,000. I loose that the only option is to spend the money again if needed. If I loose a model I have 100 hours invested in, how do I put a price on that?

Another idea that you may not realize exists. I think that BLACX that holds two SATA drives cost me around fifty dollars at Best Buy. 1 Tb SATA's I manage to find on sale for around a hundred bucks. Two of those (total $250) and I never have to worry about loosing what amounts to many thousands of dollars of stuff and tens of thousands of dollars worth of manhours. Cheap insurance by any estimation.

They know about it. Thanks. The workaround is easy so not a critical issue. I just wondered if they were related somehow.

That reminds me, I need to renew today to save the $100. I'm cool with the $195 a year thing. I use Infinite a lot and enjoy it nearly as much as ZBrush. The occasional bug does not put me off. Vue is way better than it was a couple of release numbers ago. I go for entire days now without a crash.

Speaking of ZBrush, we just got hair and a form of instancing, why am I here instead of playing :)

I'm seeing about 20 to 30% increases in speed. Between the physical water and the splines, I'm happy with the update. A few bugs. I always have the earlier versions if I need them.

I use the maintenance plan and have for a couple of years. You just pay a couple of weeks early, they knock of $100. That way I only spend $195 a year and always have all versions of Infinite. Seems cheapest to me once the pain of the initial purchase is over.

This is a sphere under the physical water with a displaced surface. A simple cube as a standin for the ground at an angle with the edge slightly above the water. The turn reflective at angle is set to zero. That is also a current bug the reflection at angle stays at 100% no matter how it is set. This only happens with the physical water however.

As you can see the edge of the cube is also cut off at the base of the displacement. I found this trying to have an Alligator part in and part out of the water. Cut the poor guys head off :)

I just tried a quick render set up like you said and your right, it's a bug. I stuck a sphere on the surface of the water and placed a camera looking down and got most of the water surface ending up black. The sphere was still visible. Odd bug.

Turning off render stacking is working for me in 10 Infinite with the latest update which is the Beta they have up. I've not tried any batch renders.

Has the first issue been reported? I'd not ran into it before as I usually don't use that setting. Odd how it worked OK until I pointed the camera down.

There is also a bug with displaced water surfaces using the physical water. If you do an underwater scene with an object partly in the water, the object is cut off at the base of the displacement and also looks cut off in the reflection. I wonder if they are related somehow. You also get a black band at the shoreline looking up from underwater.

I remember asking these same questions.

As was said earlier Vue is for creating environments to place the characters and objects in.

The objects and characters are created in other software and that's where it gets complex.

If your an artist like I was, what you want to do is create everything yourself?

First you have modeling programs that only do modeling and then you have complete packages that will do most anything. Many programs are free, but the ones you buy are far better but expensive.

Blender is free and it's a full package and very capable. I hate it but some like it.

Wings 3D is a free and very capable modeler.

Daz3D has software to do anything that are popular with hobbyists and artists that are a lot cheaper than the programs used in the industry. Carrara is a full package for instance.

Poser and Daz Studio are for posing characters before sending them to Vue to render in a scene. There are a lot of models you can buy compatable with them that are already rigged to be posed.

If you want to create your own, after building the model you also have to learn to create the UV maps and textures to apply to them. There are also bump maps, displacement maps and normal maps among others. The process is quite time consuming by the time you rig a model for posing and animation.

I use-

Lightwave (a complete professional package)

Vue 10 Infinite

Silo (a simple organic modeling program I use to make base meshes)

ZBrush (the state of the art in creating organic models with high details where you can also create all maps and paint the models) If you are an artist this is a program for artists and if I had to give up all but one program, I'd keep ZBrush. You should go to -zbrushcentral.com- and have a look. The best artists in the 3D world post there.

Most of all have fun, but expect to spend money if your serious and spend lots of time learning.

That's an odd one? I'm not having that issue? I used that last week to see how it would change things with a very low cloud ceiling without issue. Made little difference though and the effect is so subtle I'm not sure how useful it is.

Unless you plan on carrying this to the highest level, when you buy you may find you only need the "Complete" version. They have a feature to compare versions on the E-on website that lists all features.

Go to Cornucopia3d.com to see the best gallery from users. Some are very nice and there are some very talented people there. Vue is capable of remarkable renders, but like all programs of that nature the learning curve is high. However the user interface in Vue is better than most and very user freindly.

Plan on at least 200 hours just to crack the surface. You get out of it, what you put into it.

As to the other software for content creation, it is very expensive and the learning curve is such you have to spend the money for quality tutorials.

First you have to decide if this is a hobby or you want to master the software's. You have likely seen renders used in movies and what not far beyond what you see in the forums. Vue will do that.

Vue is also limited by your computer. Vue will only do what your computer is capable of handling. The first mistake is usually people getting angry because their computers are not powerful enough to do what they want to do. That is not Vue's fault. To get the most out of any of this software requires very expensive Workstations with high end graphics cards. Gaming computers are better than nothing, but not designed for programs like Vue. At the least you really need one of the best GeForce GPU's and if you can afford it a professional card designed for it. All the processors you can afford, 64 bit and all the RAM you can cram in there. If you have it, Vue will use it all.

The reason I asked here is it was the same way last time I tried which was weeks ago.

Who knows, I'll try next week.