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5,558 comments found!
Ewww, icky female genitals? Personally, I personally find that an odd view but it’s certainly not unknown.. As for your courtesy in not discussing ‘d***s’, really, thanks but offering not to mention something as perfectly normal as a penis in return for people not mentioning your personal bete noir is unneeded, but suit yourself. I find some of the products in my grocer’s meat counter icky but I don’t see the need to stop discussing chops and roasts if only someone else won’t mention tripe and brains. Even if a sizeable element, or a majority of a particular culture agrees with your view doesn’t make the other view the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theater or standing up in church and shouting, ‘God is a SOB because he didn’t save my Nana when I asked him to!’ Nor, IMO, is a matter of fact adult discussion likely to warp the mind of some hypothetical 13 yr, old, who’s probably seen more vaginas that I did by the time I was 40. Last I heard, vagina was still in the middle school health books.
BTW, if you’re concerned about the kiddies here, maybe you might want to say penis and not d**k. It kind of belies any argument based on morality, esthetics or paternal interest and makes it seem like you’re OK with whatever as long as your own button doesn’t get pushed. As for why all the discomfiting discussion of genitals, why do people insist on discussing weight mapping or anything else? It’s because they want something better than what’s out there. This is no different. You may disagree with their desire, or attribute it to any motivation you like, it’s no less legitimate a subject for discussion because you have no interest or find it disturbing. Unless the moderators say it should be taken to the back alley, I don’t see the concern. There are far nastier back and forths here than people trying to have a reasonable discussion about something that should be a non issue. I’ve seen people asking how to decapitate Vickie and nary a feather seems ruffled. Ask for an anatomical feature that more than half of humanity possesses and Katy bar the door. Somewhere, an ape is vehemently denying any relationship to the human species. It’s like when Zsa Zsa went to the gynecologist and the doctor asked her if she’d ever had a check up there. ‘No, dahling,’ she replied, ‘a Pole and a couple of Lithuanians but never a Czech.’
Erogenesis, I agree that the terminology can fit the audience. Indeed, using the neutral terms is still going to put some people off and the benefit may only be marginal. As I said though, I don’t think it would lose you any customers either and it may gain a few but whatever makes you happy is what you should do.
“As I just posted in the rant above this the tirades against prudism and puritainism are just as much strawman arguments as anyone suggesting desire for a complete figure are result of some manner of perversion.”
A fine sentiment, and probably better than “The crowd who keeps harping …” which kinda just throws Vodka on the flames I think. We all need to try be a bit less out there, I try albeit with limited success – but as I said earlier, it is not a subject that people are too rational about for whatever reasons.. People are going to get their backs up if they’re called prudes OR perverts. Being put in a gang or crowd or cabal or whatever just increases the odds they’ll actually form one – fights, hell, that’s the way wars get started. I must say though that part of your annoyance, pique, whatever seems to keep going back to what someone said in some other thread, and be as much about someone dissing another figure as anything else. Far be it from me to tell you to let it go, but it seems like an unhappy grudge to me. I’ve been here long enough to learn that someone I find to be a complete idiot and an ass in one thread can be perceived entirely differently in another, or on another topic but you have to give it a chance. This entirely baffling figure and program fetishism is really destructive IMO. It leads to the kind of apocalyptic thinking that encourages excess. If Dawn fails, it’s the end of Poser – WTF – a vote against Dawn is a vote for DAZ – seriously? Poser and DAZ disappear tomorrow and cats everywhere rejoice at the added attention. I’ve seen this movie before, you’re either with us or against us, better dead than red. It always ends badly, always. Unfortunately, unlike on Star Trek, there is no evil entity thriving on discord that we can starve by making nice, we do it to ourselves. As the old boy said making his way out of the porno film, “Excuse me, this is where I came.”
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: What would be an art webinar worth paying for? | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Hmm, vague mentions of a relationship with geekatplay and now geekatplay is unavailable. Please tell us this is just a coincidence. I'd hate to think that geekatplay is going away or its pricing/free tutorials are suddenly going 'uptown.'
Teyon I'm sure has a good point but I question whether CGSociety et al is a pricing model that will work for the Poser community, at least for the hobbyist segment of it. I think you can probably get far more long term benefit from $50-$100 spent on quality training as opposed to the same spent on content, but I'm not sure how many will allocate their funds that way. That's in addition to real budget limitations and the fact that hobbyists can't expect to see a financial return, unlike professionals who, in addition, I assume can take a tax write off of some of the expense.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Amazing new female figure freebie | Forum: Freestuff
She's too cute Sparky! Is the cup size adustable, more important, are they detachable, she looks a little innocent to be sporting such accoutrements. - maybe bottle caps?
She needs a little cardboard doggie please or a kitty and a house and a friend and a dolly … Even I might be able to do a house, though the complexity of rigging a humanoid (cardboardoid?) figure is probably beyond me. At any rate, you've captured the bare elemental essence of humanity here in a way that puts all those other masses of polygons to shame. You can include a pair of scissors for genital morphs or a bathroom tissue roll for the male version. Congratulations and thanks!
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: What would be an art webinar worth paying for? | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
*"Is it only certain vendors that get to spam the forums to drum up business?"*You could report the thread and let the moderators decide rather than freelancing IMO.
*We're amigos with geekatplay. That's all I'll say for now. ;) *
Ah, so you know the 'Voo" lady - love her voice :-)
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Chained | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Good to know. Mine was compromised when the credit card freaking company was breached. No place safe out there these days.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Hacking Vicky 6 | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Nice renders JoePublic. Thanks!
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
“And remember that an attack on Dawn is the same as support to Daz.”
Please, let’s not stoke any more of the armed camps against each other. I don’t think anyone should be ‘attacking’ any figure – there’s no sense in it and the market’s too small for infighting. That’s not to mention the hostility it breeds when people (as some will) take it personally. We don’t need some enforced orthodoxy where none dare say anything negative lest they be deemed treasonous or insufficiently loyal. If you think DAZ is an enemy that needs to be defeated, frankly I’m surprised and a bit disappointed. I suppose we all have our bugaboos though – I know I do.
Erogenesis – texture compatibility would be a big point for me. I don’t know about the legal implications. People seem to be able to do remaps and get away with it. Perhaps if you simply let someone else do that. I’m pretty sure DPH would do it.
“Plus, when I'm making detailed renders of things going on down there …”
I don’t want to be a bug about this but honestly I think you would be better off keeping everything on a professional basis. Can you imagine DAZ or SM using terms like “down there?” Say genitals, vagina etc. No, it’s not going to quiet the critics but it may help avoid turning off some people who otherwise might consider the figure. To be honest, even at renderotica I don’t see the need for the cheap porn novel product descriptions. People can see what they’re getting fine without them. If that’s the only market you’re going for it’s OK I suppose. The point is those customers will be there in any case. Why leave any money on the table with other folks though. Confound your critics by not buying into their characterization of your work.
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.” H. L. Mencken
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: What would be an art webinar worth paying for? | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
I don’t care for video training in general, just not my preferred learning mode. I have watched several the geekatplay’s free offerings and they are pretty nice. If I were going to purchase anything, the fact that they have a lot of free content would make me gravitate towards them. Having enough free samples to give people an idea of what to expect would be good. In fact, it might be worth investing in actually producing something at this point to show what you can do and generate interest, even if it’s a 30 minute thing. Vue and Poser seem to be popular, at least here, so a scene combining thise would be good.
Live? LoL, I have a hard enough time going back and forth to catch things on a recording so definitely downloads.. There are plenty of tutorials out there on doing specific things or creating a particular scene in this or that program. I’d be more interested in more general things like creating a specific mood, lighting, etc. character interaction with the setting, camera angles etc. Those can apply across a range of software. Things like Birn’s Digital Lighting and Rendering, which isn’t application specific at all. Maybe giving some specific examples of titles might get a more accurate feedback on people’s interest. – the more detailed and specific the better.
Having downloadable content to go with the training is always nice, something that geekatplay does. That may be easier with Vue and some other programs like Poser where things like figures and clothing can’t for the most part be redistributed.
I would think hosted Q&A where they can select questions and be prepared to answer them in a logical way. Live may be OK for general stuff but I’m not sure about one person asking about this dial setting, another about something else etc. Seems like it might get a bit chaotic.
The price seems high but it may be in line, TBH, I haven’t even looked at what geekatplay charges for their paid tutorials. It may be worth it but for that price you can get one or mayve even two books
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Detailed genitalia in a 3D figure. Express your concerns here | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
“Speaking of which, at our community recreation centres, there usually aren't any separate change rooms/showers for kids. Up to age 7 (I think)”
And at 7 they turn into unicorns? Just kidding. I sounds like a more rational way than what prevails in certain places and was exported (usually at sword point) to other places. Mostly originating somewhere people are still cutting each other’s throats over swaths of desert no one else would give a rat’s rear end about if the buried dinosaur crap underneath it hadn’t turned into oil.
“From my understanding, in addition to the poser market they have a long term goal of reaching a education market(i assume read this as kids not adults) and have made a deliberate and foundational decision that everything sold at their store will be PG13, including their base figure”
Now that makes sense. Not that I think the compromise is going to win them a lot necessarily, but I live in an area where giving the kids a 3D Olive Oyl with her clothes welded on would be considered an unspeakable crime by many. Presumably there are other places where they can make a buck. If I were them though and I really wanted to reach the largest number of schools, I would go all the way and clothe them permanently ala the Poser casual and business women etc. Dimes to donuts someone will show up at the board meeting and wave a render of Naked Dawn being ridden by the Mil Pony, that they found somewhere and put an end to that heathen 3D edumucation nonsense.
No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up. - Lily Tomlin
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Real class there ssgbryan. I don't know which I like better, telling people what they should be able to afford or the blatant, utter contempt expressed for anyone who doesn't see things your way. I can understand your frustration when the products don't suit your whshes or needs and I'm not going to get into your right to express 'strong opinions' as some would say but seriously I think you go beyond the call of duty. IMO, your manner is unlikely to encourage the very changes you seem to want. Frankly, it's hard to get beyond the anger you seem to have to see any value in your opinions. But that's just my take.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Detailed genitalia in a 3D figure. Express your concerns here | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
Didn't DAZ break down and give Vickie some kind of a 'crease' morph? I haven't read the thread at Sunshine Manor so I don't know what the creator said, vs. speculation.
I can buy personal objections. I can buy wanting to put more polygons in some other area. Fear of being sued? Well, you can give away ice cream on a hot day and risk getting sued. Judging from the other figures available, the too low poly to be abused and get us sued rationale, well, I'm dubious, but that's just my opinion. Maybe they have a shyster who told them that I don't lnow. If they bring out a male figure with anything other than nothing, I'd say the gynophobia fix is definitely in. IIRC, the guy at 3DU said he didn't support male genital textures in TC because in his view they only got used for porn. A simple, albeit rather odd explanation I can buy, but he didn't say he was afraid of getting sued. Whatever; they believe what they believe and they do what they gotta do. Now I shouldn't be so skeptical when the poor man's just trying to stay out the place where he'd get too up close and personal with Bubba's genitalia, but I gotta be honest, it do seem a bit odd - even in the land of 'I burned my mouth on the hot coffee in the cup that said Warning Hot! - give me money.'
As for porn vs. erotica, unless someone can explain how they don't appeal to the same basic human drive, then it's thumb wrestling vs. ultimate fighting, a matter or personal taste and interest. I don't think any of is's designed to make people muse on the glories of creation or God's goodness. Even if they were, why would the intricacies of a vagina be any less inspirational than a cheeky glimpse of ankle or whatever passes for 'erotica' these days. Adam's package could have been tossed off (NPI) with Poser primitives, but Eve's garden took some serious Maya time by the Almighty. Remember the guy who offered a girl $10,000 to sleep with him? She jumped at the offer. Then he offered her $100 and she sniffed, "What kind of a girl do you think I am?" He said, "We've already established that, now we're just haggling over price." That is the difference between porn and erotica, all delusions aside.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Detailed genitalia in a 3D figure. Express your concerns here | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
"When photographers do fashion shoots that aren't porn, they don't insist the model remove their genitals first, just in case they get in the way."
Those fashion shoots can get pretty hairy (NPI) apparently one of the job assignments for the assistants is trimming the protruding evidence of feminine hygene products products of models who prefer not to wear bloomers. Sorry, can't find the original article that listed that and equally odd revelations. Credit to Chrissy Teigen.
"If you can buy a gun and kill someone …"
Simple. In the US at least, the NRA owns the souls of enough pols to make it that way - 3D content creators don't. Add in the fact that there must be only two or three people buying all those nekkid videos 'cause that's all you'll see actually willing to defend it in public. Throw in the word "children" in any way, no matter how ridiculous and even that tiny cadre gets real quiet. So, children slaughtered by guns, so sda - children exposed to nekkidness has to be avoided at all costs. That's just the way we roll. Caution is always in order in a litigious society but, but there's a difference between at best paranoia and at worst, a straw man argument. There are plenty of things someone can do (and many have done) with a neutered figure that some ham sandwich indicting prosecutor could in theory go after. If we discover that Ariel Castro rendered nude Vickies tied up in a basement before doing it for real, do we charge DAZ for incitement? Anyone who's going to be deterred by those possibilities is probably better off modeling teapots and hoping none of their customers gets steam burns on their penis IRL, cause they just may sue. On the plus side, maybe he'll be too badly burned to pass on his addled genes.
As to the question, I don't think many people would refuse to buy an otherwise quality figure just because it was AC. Personally, I don't even see the need for a way to hide the goods, since presumably they won't be any more obvious than some of the current figures unless you twirl the morph dials. Maybe people feel a need to be protected from themselves, who knows. It is not a subject known for promoting rational thought. Some people who sound like MDs discussing this or that muscle group are reduced ti childish babble words when a vagina appears. A certain amount of sensitivity is fine and I enjoy a bit of Beavis & Butthead adolescent fun (ehhh, he said cooter), but seriously. And Lord knows why people can't say renderotica (oooh, the 'other place') - heads up, it ain't against the TOS if you don't link to it.
For me, cost would be the only factor. Since I haven't done anything requiring said features in some tim, and may not often in the future, I might be reluctant to pay a signifivant premium just to have it - again depends on how much I liked the figure otherwise. In the past, the bane of add on props has always been texturing and posing, plus it just makes sense the have the genetalia be organic to the figure IMO. I think some already mentioned the marketing thing. Tailor your marketing to the venue. Here, just mention the detailed AC features. You're not going to be able to show them here anyway. At renderotica, you can emphasize those elements. If possible, you might make the genital morphs a free add on that could be obtained on request. That might minimize the 'taint' - and yes, clever readers of the Southern persuasion, that could be a hilarious pun.
Sorry to say that actually the more you discuss it, the greater the chance that the figure will be perceived as a 'porn figure,' and that might actually decrease the number of potential customers. Luckily, the vast majority probably don't haunt the Poser forum here and many don't go to renderotica - might want to produce it under another name anyway. Needless to say if she's only available at 'the other place' you're limited. Oh, and come up with a name that in no way suggests anything, you know … no Bits, no V-Jay, no Uvula (might confuse the dyslexic), etc. Best wishes, carry on and good luck.
HAMLET: Lady, shall I lie in your lap? [Lying down at OPHELIA's feet]
OPHELIA: No, my lord.
HAMLET: I mean, my head upon your lap?
OPHELIA: Ay, my lord.
HAMLET: Do you think I meant country matters?
Hamlet (Act III, Scene 2)
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
*"*I liken it a bit to flight. At first it was for Mavericks and innovaters. Next, early adaptors."
"Every great cause, begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket." - Eric Hoffer
There's a lot to be said for reaching your destination without falling out of the sky, but sure, there's always a certain charm to the pioneering days. Computers aren't as 'fun' as they were in the 70s, but then things like incompatible floppy disk formats and every mfgr. with their own OS etc. pretty much sucked. Once anything becomes a commodity, you lose some of that spirit of clubby exclusivity, the joy of new discovewries etc.
3D is still far from the commodity thing that video has become or the internet. It's still more effort than than the masses will bear and looks to remain so if the emphasis continues on reaching for more high end features over the kind of simplicity that mass adoption would require. It will probably happen eventually and then these may seem like the golden days in retrospect. I think there's always some sense of whatever by the old hands once everybody and their sister is doing something, maybe a bit of lost cachet. That may explain some of the negative attitude of someold school 3D folks toward Poser.
* *
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
“That's a rather negative view of the situation that sells other very talented artists short.”
I’m not sure why you’d get that impression. It’s certainly not what I meant. My comments meant speak to the nature of the marketplace, not anyone’s ability to produce quality products for it. I can’t intuit anyone’s motivation for creation. It does seem to me though that more than one new figure has been introduced with an implicit or not so implicit air of taking down the Queen, being the next great thing etc. My guess would be that deep down inside, everyone has that kind of pick 6 dream, that’s pretty much human nature – and in the case of the creative individual I might argue, not necessarily unhealthy ego. No doubt the post-schism environment may have contributed to that. If there’s any unfairness, it may be in imputing such ambitions too generally. I’m not an artist so I can only plead ignorance.
I’m sure you’re correct that many people may see the situation more realistically. If someone is content with a modest start and working for the long haul to build up a smaller, but ongoing business, based on doing what they love then sure, the market is probably there. As I said before, whatever it is, someone will always agree with your vision, and hopefully enough to make that steady income. I guess the question is, how many of these figures deemed to have failed (definitions of failure differ) are making a steady income for their creators? I would think that the chances are much better if the creator is also producing ancillary content. If the figure’s not supported by 3rd parties (who tend not to support figures that aren’t popular) then even the boutique devotes may be less enthusiastic. Motivation, talent, persistence are given requirements but I wonder how many people who can produce a 1st rate figure are also good at producing 1st rate clothing and textures and shaders and poses? And yes, again, I think that those are needed, unless one is content to cater only to those who will convert, use dynamic clothing, roll their own this and that etc. Maybe that still makes a good income, I honestly don’t know.
So yes, it can be done and you make a fine case for it. In the real world though, in practical terms, how many of the fine artists you refer to are in a position to or have the inclination to pull it off? If stipulate only a very few, that sounds about right. Even that doesn’t detract from the talent of the rest. It only says that interests, skill sets, real life obligations etc. limit the number. I think your sober assessment is a must read for anyone thinking of embarking on creating a new figure.
I do think that even if someone is not looking to create the next Vickie, they need to think about marketing, promotion etc. That’s not to deny the virtues you’ve outlined. I just think that however much success you reach through the Costner model, a bit of Don Draper probably wouldn’t hurt – if the figure looks like Christina Hendricks, even better. It seems like whenever this subject comes up, some (not you I imagine), see any mention of marketing as a heinous attempt at stifling artistic creativity or ignoring the self evident excellence of whatever they’re doing, rather than just a nod to reality. For the record, while I’ve managed to forgive the adults who dragooned me into selling candy as a child, I’m no great advocate of capitalist orthodoxy, but as H.L. said, “The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's how the smart money bets.”
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Thread: HWS Shader for DAWN | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL
@Joe. I would love to see some of your figures rendered this way i.e. something more like people would actually do rather than the 3 panel acrobatic studies. I like your ideas r.e. revamped Gen3 meshes, but it's hard to get an idea of what they really are with that approach, valuable though it may be. Just my opinion. Very nice work BTW.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
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Thread: Making a new Female Base Model? Don't want to disappoint? Checklist. | Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL