And, where does it exclude supposedly "stupid" decisions by the majority? sigh it doesn't, no one ever said we should rework the concept of democracy. While I agree it is the best form of government, it isn't perfect, but nothing in this world is. A point I made several posts up was that sometimes it is possible for the people(or the numerical majority or however you want to say it, we should all know how democracy is intended to work without resorting to a debate on semantics at this point) to make misguided decsions and that any history or political expert will tell you that is completely true...does it mean the vote should have been taken away, no. Do me a favor, if you are going to quote me and critique what I say, please make sure you read everything I say so I don't end up repeating myself over and over again for everyone who happens along... Melissa

I never made a reference to anyone's intelligence and still haven't, you are once again trying to insinuate something for the sake of continuing an arguement(and after we had agreed, hmmmm). I said IN MY OPINION it would have been a stupid DECISION. It's a well known fact that even the smartest people sometimes make stupid decisions, it's part of being human. The issue is that it's unfortunate that the poll was pulled...period... Melissa

Might make a stupid decision? in who's opinion? What may be stupid for one is the right answer for another- and frankly i didn't get this far in life by having someone "protect" me from making "so called stupid decisions." In my opinion and I'm sure others, yes, it would have been a stupid decision(not just based on talent and skill but a number of other reasons as well)...that is my opinion and I have a right to have one just as you do. I don't know what was going through other's minds but I do think voting him as AOY would be stupid, and have a right to feel that way even if it is an unpopular point of view.. Melissa

c1rcle that may be true as well...I'll give you that on the point that perhaps the community might have made a decision they didn't like..:) Melissa

Just responding to what you wrote, Lynde, which is essentially that the members aren't smart enough to pick the "real" art, because their feeble minds are distracted by a lot of jumping up and down. Sorry if I'm misreading you, but that's really what you seem to be saying. Maybe it's not my fault that I can't intuit your true meaning; I'm a lot of things, but I'm not psychic. You've almost got it, but not quite. I never made reference to anyone's intelligence, that part you added. I do think that Legume's work was for many, a distraction, whether that has anything to do with intelligence or not depends on the individual....Cheryle said before that she didn't even know it was a protest at first, wasn't that what this was supposed to be?? Melissa

what has this got to do with racism? I KNOW you had better not be implying that because there is no way anyone could even remotely dream that this has anything to do with that or that anything I said was a racist remark. Get that chip off your shoulder. I can't remember who said it but somehow now the phrase "I don't agree with a single thing you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" keeps coming back to mind...I'll bet i'm the last person you thought you'd hear that one from, huh? I really don't agree with your perspective at all but you have and should have a right to express it just as I should.. The PTB gave us a poll then took it away when they saw that we(yes we, as a whole community) might make a stupid decision. That is an unfortunate side effect of democracy, sometimes the people do make misguided decisions(any history or political sciences expert will tell you that) but that does not mean that the system as a whole doesn't work or is not fair. I don't agree that it should have been taken away but again, my point is that it is unfortunate that this happened. Melissa

okay so, real talent and skill really have nothing to do with it. there is no point in trying to develop my skills as an artist because in the end no one will actually care whether or not the work is any good..what I really need to do is just jump up and down and draw as much attention to myself as possible and then try to churn out 3 barely constructed peices a day and that will be enough for me to be considered an artist. Personally I'd rather take the chance that no one will notice, that my work will be special to me whether anyone else ever even comments on it. I'm not looking for money or attention ulitmately, I just want to do what means the most to me and if a few do like it, well that's fine too...I've never had the personality to be a celebrity...don't like alot of attention, but if somehow being a real artist means you must be a celebrity, I can do without either title...Lecturing me that feeling is important to art is even more insulting than saying I don't know what I'm talking about. And Mosca, if you must only continue to see what you want to see just for the sake of having something to argue about go right ahead, you are only showing your own lack of intuitiveness. I have said before that I agree that the poll shouldn't have been taken away and to imply that I want some sort of dictatorship is just wrong. I value democracy as much as you think you do but I am just pointing out that this is whole scenario is just a good example of how democracy can sometimes backfire, I'm not suggesting it is reason to replace it with anything else so don't even try to put words in my mouth. For one final time, I will say again that I agree with you about the polls but I will never agree from your perspective because in my mind your perspective is just as completely unfair and injust as you think mine is... Melissa

Right--the great unwashed can't be trusted to make the simplest decisions. nope, you're reading what you want into that. What I think is unfortunate is that so few are actually paying attention to what's going on, so much so that all of the actually talented artists Legume went up against for AOM lost because most of the community just saw a flash in the pan and went in that direction rather than actually looking at and examining the art in the galleries that were presented before them. Anyway, my point has been made many times and I have actually agreed with you as far as the poll goes, right now you have just resorted to your own personal feelings on the subject in order to keep the argument going...nice job.. Melissa

This really isn't about the relative merits (or not) of Legume's work. It's a fairness issue--should the site offer a prize and then withdraw it because one of the potential winners annoys them? If they want to give a present to someone whose work better fits their unwritten inoffensiveness guidelines, fine, give them a present. But let's not call it a contest. Let's call a spade a spade, if there's still any doubt, and post in big, block letters on the front page that Legume, alone among all members, is not entitled to and will not be awarded any prize in any contest, ever again. Anything less is cowardly and dishonest, in my view. How do you know that it isn't? It could be about that as well as a few other things including the desire for someone who better represents the community or it could be about none of those things, we really do not know. I am also disappointed that the poll was taken away. I would much rather have seen toxicAngel win by popular vote than hope that the PTB decides that he wins but unfortunately that didn't happen. Hell, if you want to make a comparison in terms of artistic skill, AND contributions to the community it's still clear who should win if it came down to those too people and I don't even know the guy personally. Melissa

it means exactly what it says...don't try to read anything more into it or you'll just make your head hurt. YOu're right, who you voted for is your business, no one's disputing that in any way. I acutally do agree with you about the poll but from an opposing persective, it's a shame that the vote had to be taken away from the community because so few within it actually recognize real talent and skill and only resond to those who draw the most attention to themselves... Melissa

my point exactly..

Lots of things elude me- shrug but i am better off that way and happier ;) And as far as being a protest with the pink ponies- my kids and freinds loved the images LOL they had no idea it was a protest- actually i didn't either at first- i just thought they were funny and original LOL - again- back to that lots of things elude me- but then- maybe that's why i thught they were so fun to look at- shrug There was alot more to this protest than just the pink ponies, I seem to remember an image of Mr. Fluffers taking a dive into the Twin towers and yet another entitled "Vicky washes her Stinky Pussy".....anyway, the end result is that this all became about Legume, not freedom of speech and just by your statement above you've proven my point even better than I could have..:) Melissa

okay, well I won't make the same point twice, just read what I said above your post and that should also cover what you had to say to me..:) Melissa

Honey, I voted for ToxicAngel, he was winning anyway and I did encourage those I know to vote too(for whoever they wanted to vote for). I thought that was part of the purpose of this site, to gain exposure for it's members. I'm sure that is one of the many purposes of this site, my point which seems to have eluded you is that a protester should remain true to his cause if he wants to be taken seriously, that is why I don't take Legume seriously. Then they never should have put it up for a vote in the first place. Once a contest has been started- then changed mid stride- it is definately borderline illegal. And nothing wrong with asking the authorities to look into this, just to make sure it's on the up and up. Last years AOY was surrounded in controversy of just that nature- it was alledged that a member was winning the AOY through multiple accounts and clones, then the poll was pulled everyones votes nulled and redistributed to however the PTB decided to redistribute them (i dont remember exactly how they decided to redistribute them but i can look it up). SO if last year is any example- yes they can track and find ut if it's clone accounts etc. both points true and I agree it would have been better to have not had the poll to start with, perhaps it was just a miscommunication or some sort within the staff or who knows why, but even if it wasn't I can't say I blame them for wanting to pull the poll... Melissa

Well, I think it's sad that the vote was taken away from the community but I hoestly can't blame them for wanting to. This is much more serious than the AOM voting, if I remember correctly from last year, the winner gets alot of things like a paid expense trip to Siggraph among other things. That doesn't come cheap and it stands to reason also that every time any of us buy anything at the marketplace we are helping to fund all the goodies that the AOY will get. Personally I can't fault them for not wanting to waste community resources on a person who has dedicated himself to trying to destroy the community. And yes I know, supposedly he was trying to "improve" the community with all his little protests, but more often than not back when this was a big deal it was obvious to most everyone that his main interest was really the attention he was getting from all of it, not the community itself. I'm all for protest as long as the protesters keep the real goal in sight and I don't think you can say that for Legume, maybe at first but definitely not in the end and certainly not now. If it is true that any of our pruchases have anything to do with the funding for the AOY then I would have to say that I wouldn't want that man to have Jack Shit if it mean a penny needed for it had to come out of my pocket. Even so, on a side to note Mosca, didn't you admit to rigging the top 20 some time back with who knows how many fake accounts just to help support your friend here? How are we to even know if the figures in the poll were even acurate?(and no I'm not acusing you, I'm just making everyone else think) Melissa