lordbyron, Being a seemingly learned and enlightened individual as you appear to be, I am astonished that you would believe that I or anyone else would feel that any monetary transaction could ever compensate one human for the loss or otherwise dispicable treatment of another. I find it amusing that you immediately thought of monetary compensation when the real meaning of compensation is "to make up for, offset, or counterbalance". Nowhere in my post or my question did I slightly hint at any form of monetary compensation. It was your own interpretation of the post that gave you that impression. Likewise, the mention of the compensation / retribution was not meant to be an analogy of the problem; hence the reason it was so poorly one. As I stated, and has seemingly been ignored, I am past the "what's the problem?" stage and well into the "what's the solution?" stage. To answer your counter-points: 1) Apparently, regardless of how much anyone tries to comprehend the resentment that any nationality would feel against the Americans, it never proves to be enough or it is idly deemed "half-hearted lip service" or other derogatory sentiments. Since I am positive neither of us knows each other in person, I question the basis for your presumptions that I do not understand the residual resentment any more or less than the direct descendants of the atrocities? Are you certain that those responding have not, at one point in our lifetime or ancestry been persecuted and prosecuted far more aggressively than the nationality of which you represent? There are a myriad of forms of oppression, and not all of them were initiated by one race and targeted at another. 2) This is utter nonsense in the fact that it is a purely subjective view from the "oppressed" as to how the "aggressor" is acting or not. Here again, speaking of personal experience, how do you know that all of us do not "act consistently over time with contrition" about what we, as individuals of this day an age, feel about how someone has treated other nationalities in a past day and age? I, for one, never owned another human being, nor did I ever force anyone to perform acts outside of their own volition, nor have I caused any physical or psychological harm to anyone. I will not accept the burden of my forefathers simply because the descendants of those who actually suffered believe that the only way we can feel remorse is to suffer the same forms of oppression at their hands. That is simply ludicrous. As much as you claim we do not understand you, it appears that you do not fully understand us. It is this lack of understanding that is getting in the way of finding a real solution so we can live in peace. 3) No man, woman, nor child has the power to correct the wrongdoings of the past. Nor, as stated above, should someone who has never participated in the wrongdoings be required to bear the burden of those who have. If you have a viable solution as to how anyone can "correct the whole history of wrongs and evil actions" that anyone has done, I am sure that we are ready and willing to listen. 5) This part of the "West", as you so call it, has not been in existence for 400 years. Up until the formation of the United States, this entire area was colonized by many nations. Likewise, the entire world over has been involved in "acts of terror and genocide". I highly encourage you to research history and get the facts correct. Although this does not make it right depending upon the side of the fence you stand on, but you are, essentially, blaming the entire human race for the events of the past. Being a learned and scholarly individual, you must realize that the majority of these four requests are for "compensation" that is beyond the means of any mortal to provide. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that there can never be any compensation for the wrongdoings of the past and we will be eternally damned for it. I do not accept that as a viable solution. The art of compromise is that each side must make a serious and concerted effort to appease the other for the mutual benefit of both parties. Asking for compensation in forms that no one can possibly fulfill is not, IMHO, actively seeking a solution; but causing further injustice and indignity by allowing the past to continually haunt the present and the future. If you, in all your wisdom, can come up with a viable solution that does not require one side to become submissive to or dominated by the other, then I wholeheartedly encourage you to do so.

For those who do not read rendered Sign Language all that well, the hands spell out PEACE (clockwise from top). This thread gave me the inspiration. I apologize to anyone who may find any portion of the attached graphic as being offensive in any way. The purpose of the graphic is to show that all nations co-exist and the world can have peace, if everyone is willing to work at it. The use of the US flag's texture is an indication that American's have descended from nearly, if not every country on the face of the globe. ===== Credits: Composition: myself Earth: dreamer2jmc@home.com Flag and US Flag Texture: Mab Graphics Hand Pigmentation: various pictures on the Net Inspiration: Everyone who participated in this thread National Flags: CIA If I missed anyone, I apologize.

Very elquent and poetic, however the theme remains the same. Perhaps instead of redefining the issue, over and over, we could define a solution? What would be adequate compensation and/or retribution that modern-day descendants of the "aggressors" could possibly provide that would appease the descendants of the "oppressed" to the point that this is no longer an issue between our cultures? I think we have a pretty good idea as to everyones' stance, however every attempt at offering a solution, thusfar, seems to have fallen on deaf ears, er eyes. There are those of us of every nationality and culture who sincerely desire to put this issue to a rest so that the generations to come can finally live in peace and harmony.

Every nationality in every culture at one point or another had slavery or their version of it. If everyone in the world held current descendants responsible for the actions of their ancestors, we would be in a never-ending battle for litigation and compensation. I find "anglo-saxon", or variations thereof, nondescript for the majority of the people being discussed that are caucasians who, for generations, have been American citizens. After several hundred years and generations living in this country, we are Americans; nothing more, nothing less. All Americans, indeed the world at large, benefit from the past, even the darkest of periods. It seems that it is often overlooked that many caucasians and other nationalities fought on behalf of the slaves to offer them freedom and the same rights of any American citizen. It is rare if ever announced that these "Anglo-Saxons" attempted to champion the cause for equality of all natiojnalities, and still do today. This "black and white" situation is very far from it. By allowing these tensions to remain, you are only propagating and amplifying the disservices that have already been done. We need to change what we are doing now and tomorrow, since we cannot change what we did yesterday. Personally, I think the majority of the ethnic groups accused of these incidents have matured to the point that they realize the wrong that was done and have made immense strides in modifying their behaviors. However, a vast minority of those who were "oppressed" - indeed some who, in all likelihood, are not even descendants of the oppressed - seem to make it their personal mission to continue to allow these actions to influence the present; demanding recompense from people who had nothing to do with the orignal offense in the first place. All I am suggesting is that we cannot change the past, but we can influence the present and future. Live for today, to make tomorrow a better place for everyone.

From what I have seen: Conforming Figure - A figure that has the same body parts as another that will inherit the properties of the figure it is applied to at the moment of application. (ie, putting a dress on P4NF in the default pose.) Smart Prop - A prop that not only inherits the current properties of the underlying character, but one that will inherit any modifications made to the underlying character after application. (ie, putting a dress on P4NF in the default pose, changing the chest size", and the prop morphing with the change in chest size.) As to how to make them, I do not know, but hope to soon. :0)

Is there a "Safe List" of ethnically correct verbiage that everyone can agree upon? One of the reasons I ask is because I grew up in an "ethnically diverse" neighborhood which consisted of a majority of "minorities" and, despite what term or level of PC terminology you used, someone would take offense to it. Therefore, since this type of discussion is more subjective than objective, I think we need to see a little more tolerance on both sides of the fence. Likewise, in one of my previous positions, I was involved in a similar discussion with someone who was trying to convince me that I was prejudice to all minorites simply because I have had a caucasian upbringing. All too often, presumptions and assumptions are made by some from their own vantage point vs those of the other parties involved. Much of this debate is contingent upon actions, terms, etc, from earlier periods in world history where these terms have have had adverse intentions. Although I regret that these occurrances happend - despite the fact that I personally had nothing to do with them - I can only see one solution to the issue: We must all strive to "clean the slate" and try to start over again. What has happened over 150-200 years ago is atrocious by today's standards, but no one living today had any affect or influence over that time period. Holding modern ethnicities responsible for past atrocities seems to be the hub upon which this debate relies upon; and is an imperfect approach at a solution. I believe that as one human race, we have striven to see the errors of the past and the vast majority of the world's populace has taken conscious steps to avoid repeating the errors of others. We all must come forth to the 21st Century and realize that we only have control of our own actions and minimal control over the actions of others. Any "categorizing", "generalizations", "labeling", "stereotyping", etc of one segment of the populace of another is going to result in adversity between the two. The best we can do is to try to come to some sort of compromise in which the greatest percentage of people can agree upon. Another brief point, I hope, is that this debate seems to be over the use of words and their negative connotations. Words are mere representations in text or other media to describe, as closely as possible, the intent of the individual using them. Words themself carry no emotional baggage except for the weight that the observer puts on them. We have to start to disassociate our own personal "emotional baggage" that we attach to words from words used by others. Simply discussing these differences between the parties involved usually equates to a real solution 90% of them time. The other 10% can be attributed to human behavior or other factors.

bikermouse, Actually, I wonder about that myself sometimes. Ie, if I create an image the way I see it, post it, I wonder how people who have different ocular conditions see it as well. Having played the "What's this/that/the other color?" game one too many times gets frustrating. But I do wonder at times if "seeing the world in a different light" than most is a blessing or a curse. Unfortunately, I do not think there is a way either side could fully experience the others' point of view.

Attached Link: Color Deficiency Information

Thanks for everyone's response. I, too, am red/green (the most prevalent, IIRC). I do not think it is quite as severe as not seeing red/green, as I can distinguish them, so much as the many variouos shades. The green light against white lights in the background can be cumbersome for me. (I just figure that if I do not see red or amber, it is safe to go.) I have also been caught by "backseat drivers" from time to time going through flashing red lights vs flashing amber. After thinking about it more, I did realize that I do tend to use red more than most colors (besides black/white) in a lot of my pictures. The funny thing is I hate green, or maybe just because of the way my eye interprets it. :0) During my search yesterday, I found a couple of sites that explained the condition(s) in detail. The one in the link is exceptionally written and detailed. Another link (http://members.aol.com/nocolorvsn/color.htm) is also interesting and has some tests to help determine the deficiency.

Not that I have tried it yet, but could this type of work be a candidate for the Poser Python scripting? Has anyone tried any scripting in Poser?

Attached Link: Tutorials

Being a newbie to Poser myself, I have, at times, used the Tutorials link above when looking into specific info. Also, there is a wealth of knowledge and off-site tutorials that you can find using your basic search engines.

bloodsong, ty for the tip. It seems that a lot of the men's shoes fall into this category, as they always end up booting themselves in the rear; especially the right shoe. :0)

crision, I will let you know "the value of XP" once I get it and successfully have it installed... :0)

lmckenzie, I have an 80GB waiting to be installed and I do have a W2K server. Having DSL, I do have a home network and, hopefully someday, I will have a "server farm" with all the "old" systems I have running Linux, etc. The only problem is that I have never wired up a house for networking, plus I do not own the house I live in. :0) As for the "XP Debate": Each individual has to make up their own mind based upon the available information. Although your experiences have been apparently different from those of the people I converse with, I have gone with the majority here and purchased XP to give it a whirl.

The 512MB is just a start, the mobo can hold up to 3GB, but the 1GB PC2700 DDRs are still a tad outta my price range. Give it a few months. ;0)

On another note, the responses here was just enough to get me to whip out the credit card and order some new components. Do you think Poser will run better on: * AMD XP 2100+ * Asus A7V333 * 512MB PC2700 DDR * Windows XP Pro :0) Now that I can "justify" doing the upgrades I will be elated to receive my new components within a couple of days and retire this system to W2K server duties to replace an old 300 Celeron POC. When my GF asks where I got such a crazy idea, I will tell her you told me to do it. :0)