What I really like:

1. Price! The price and feature set of Carrara (including affordable upgrade pricing) is what keeps me comming back for more.

2. Transposer Plugin. A little better import support would be good (i.e. bones, dynamic hair, better shader matching). But overall, a fantastice addition to Carrara, and no complaints.

3. Plant Generator, Sky's, and Terrains. I think Carrara has some serious work to do here to match some advanced features of Vue Esprit, Terragen, WCS, but the new improvements are a very welcome addition!

4. The Render Engine! I love it. Simple to use, great results, and the addition of render nodes makes animations and complex renders something to look forward to.

5. Wide range of import/export options! Many of the "pro" applications pale in comparison!

6. The modelers! True, as many have already stated, they need more work in specific areas, But having all the different modelers available within the application is a big plus. The spline modeler stands out as Carrara's most powerful modeling tool. Just need to get the others up to the same standard.

7. Open GL support! Keep improving!

Things to fix/improve/add

1. Dynamic cloth
2. FBX export
3. Improved Terrain data import (more format support), and
   terrain functions in general
4. Model Room:
   a) Ability to see other objects in the modeling
   window(s)and toggle them on and off
   b) Ability to select only visible vertexs, lines, or
   planes (toggle on and off)
   c) Ability to control smoothing amount/level on
   individual edges in the vertex modeler
   d) Real time symetric modeling
5. SSS (You can thank Lord of the Rings for this one) Not really a high priority for me, but you can be sure that the addition of Sub Surface Scattering would be a big marketing plus.
6. Improved memory management!!!

Sorry for the long wish list, but I just had to put it down while it was on my mind. Overall, C4Pro is a fantastic software package. The list of "likes" could have been much longer, but I just put my favorites down. In price vs features, I feel that Carrara is still the market leader (the first time purhase price of C4Pro is narrowing the margin quite a bit, but it still includes a lot of tools and value for the money). I think in general, users will always have a long wish list, regardless of value for the money, or the available tool set. With a few additions and enhancements, Carrara will really narrow the gap with the "Big Boys". Just keep up the good work!!

Don't feel bad, I remember having the same problem. So simple ..... after you find out what to do. But before that, you really you don't have a clue what to do.

I came in through the back door. For me it was a 3D module called TIN for ArcInfo (a GIS program - computer mapping) in 1989. Then to Vista Pro, and later 3D analyst for ArcView (more GIS), then VirtualGIS and Stereo Analyst, onto World Construction Set V4. I was hooked, from there Poser2 to 4 to 5 along with trying 3ds Max (never liked the interface), Rhino, Virtual Nature Studio (VNS), Cinema 4D, and Carrara. Now it's mostly VNS, Carrara, Poser, and C4D at home, and of course GIS 3D at work. Some day I may actually get good at it .... nope, don't think so. But it's great fun. I still remember trying Corel 3Dream for a couple of hours (not reading the manual/help of course), and being unable to do anything!

I can help out on the editing. Select your object, go to the model room, select Edit>Convert to Other Modeler, and convert to vertex modeler. Your object will now be editable. As for the scaling, the only solution I can think of is to scale the model up (say 400%) after import, make the needed changes, then reduce the model back to the original size/scale (25%) before export. I'm sure someone else will have a better solution for scaling the model. Good luck!

Dex, I doubt that the C3 file format is compatible with C1. I would suggest using .obj (Alias Wavefront object file), as I recall, C1 can import .obj with no problems. Good Luck

Just my 2 cents, if you're still interested. I have used both C4D XL (V6-7) and Carrara Studio (2-4Pro) for 2-3 years. If your on a budget, then you can't beat the features in CS4, and the Pro version gives you extras that are geared toward poser users and animators, and modelers (transposer, a 5 node render farm, and Amapi Designer). To get the same render capabilities in C4D as CS4Pro you would need to get the advanced render module for C4D. For the price, the render engine alone CS4 is worth it! I prefer to render in CS4, it's easy to set up, and the image quality is great. For ease of use, although this is mainly a individual thing, they are both easy to get your head around. But in general, I prefer the modeling capabilities in C4D (but the addition of Amapi Designer 7 with CS4Pro probably levels the playing field). I use both programs for modeling, some tasks are easier in C4D, and some are easier in CS4. The spline modeler in CS is extremely powerful, and makes it easy to creat things that would be much more difficult in C4D (at least up to version 7). CS4 now has a utility to convert triangles to quads, which solves almost all the issues with the spline modeler conversions to vertex models. Stability? I can honestly say that C4D (V6 and V7) is rock solid. I once did a marathon modeling session with C4D of 14 hours, didn't close it down once, and experienced no stability issues. CS4Pro seems very stable, but I have had a few problems, usually when I max out the RAM and start using virtual memory. But compared with other windows applications, it is quite stable. If I were starting out now on a tight budget, with the thought af having a companion application for Poser 5, I would probably get CS4Pro. It can import Poser figures very well, with animation (including dynamic cloth - but not dynamic hair). It has GI, HDRI, motion blur, and support for up to a 5 node render farm, and has Amapi designer thrown in too. There has been a recent surge in plugin development for CS, all at very reasonable prices. If budget was not an issue, then I would take a serious look at C4D, the deciding factor would be how well the plugins support the import of Poser 5 figures/animations. Bottom line, the two real important factors are budget and fit. Try both of them out. If the user interface and program logic doesn't "fit" you, then no matter what the cost, using the program won't be enjoyable. If you find them both usable, then look at the features you would like to have the most, and see which application supports them the best, in a simple to use fashion. If you still don't have a clear "leader", then price will probably be the deciding factor (but don't fall into the trap of wanting to get one application over the other because it costs more - the prestige factor - what you really want is results, not an ornament on your bookshelf). If you are really undicided, then do as Ben Dover suggested and get a copy of C4C V6se (which is the XL version, just limited render resolution), and CS4Pro. You will have an excellent and very flexible tool set at your disposal. Good Luck!

Bill,

Another option came to mind when I pressed to botton to post the message above. You could use either Poser or AM and render the animation to a video file. Then use a plane object to play the animation on in a C3 animation. If memory serves correctly, there is an example (and tutorial) of this technique on Eovias web site. It would be a very simple way to get lipsynced characters into C3

Good Luck!

Bill, I should have asked if you were on a Mac or PC ... Opps! That narrows down the field a bit. I think your right that Amapi doesn't run on a Mac (awesome machine you have there). TrueSpace has a very unique interface, inviting, and doesn't have that sterile technical look. It has decent animation tools, and the facial animator which is a big plus for charater animation. I'd recommend getting something to run on your Mac. You'll love the dual processors when your rendering (with a multi threaded app)! A good machine makes a big difference. Does C4D CE run on OSX? I haven't paid attention to it since I'm a PC user. Lipsync in Carrara - that could be difficult. I use Mimic and Poser to lipsync. With Poser4 Propak, I can host my poser animations in 3D MAX if I need to use an external app for rendering. Mimic can export BHV motion files, but I don't think C3 supports BHV. I hope that the upcomming C3 plugin for Poser will support full animations - which will give me lipsync (in a round about way) in Carrara. Right now, the best way to lipsync in C3 would probably be to create morph targets for the major lips movements, and manually apply them. OUCH! Sounds painfull, and like a lot of work. Animation Master ($299 www.hash.com) runs on OSX and it may be an option if you are really interested in character animation and creation, but it doesn't play well with others (I don't believe there are any options for exporting the animations to other 3d apps). Poser 5 ($199 www.curiouslabs.com) is available for OSX, which in combination with either Mimic (www.daz3d.com) or TextPuppet can be user to easily create animations (I'm not sure if there are Mac versions for these). Actually anything that can create a BHV file can be used for animation in Poser or AM. The modeling capabilities of Poser are ... well .... VERY limited, so it is strictly a figure animation/posing app. AM has good modeling tools for organic forms, but is definitely lacking in other areas. Unfortunately, character animation is still a niche market, with few affordable options. Poser and Animation Master are the only easily affordable options (DAZ Studio, under development, might add one more option in the near future, and Greenbriar Studios has already annouced a DAZ Studio plugin for Carrara that will be available when DAZ Studio becomes available to the general public - it's currently in Alpha testing). In the "high end" apps, the character annimation tools are much better, but typically at a additional Premium price (and a big learning curve). For general purpose 3D and character animation, an affordable solution may be C3, Poser5, and the the C3/Poser plugin (which is supposed to be out at the end of Q1 this year), which would give you a lot of flexiblility. The bone tools in C3 are adequate, not as sophisticated as Character Studio (3DS MAX) or Mocca (C4D 8), but I have played with them, and you can get good results if your persistant(there just aren't a lot of good tutorials, so it's a lot of trial and error). Vue d'Esprit, Mover4(5), and Poser is another combination that would work, but you would need to have another app for modeling, since Vue is not a modeler. I hope I didn't add to the 3D confusion with all the options above. If you want to do some character animation, but really want to focus on general 3D, then Carrara is still a very good choice. You will learn a lot more about the nuts and bolts of charater animation with Carrara than with Poser or AM. If your focus is really on character animation, then AM might be a good choice (I haven't used it, but it seems to be a very good stand alone character animation app), or the combination of C3 and Poser 5 with the yet to be seen Carrara to Poser plugin, or C3 and DAZ Studio with the Greenbriar Studios plugin. Of course the last two options are dependent on software that hasn't been relased yet. A work around for getting Poser animations into C3 would be to export each frame of your animation from Poser to .obj format, then import each individual .obj file into C3, and animate the visiblilty of each model with key frames. Addmittedly a brute force approach, but it would work, as this is how it used to be done with C4D 6 (and may be the easiest way to lipsync until the poser transporter is available).

Bill,

I've used Carrara and C4D 6XL for commercial porposes, and many people who have posted on this forum use Carrara for commercial purposes. Eovia has made some big improvements in Carrara over the past couple of years, and 3rd party plugin development has also increased. Any of the software mentioned in this thread has probably been used commercially, and they all have their strenghts and weaknesses. That is why very few pro shops (if any) use a single app.

With the recent improvements in C3, and the up-comming Poser plugin, if I had to choose a single multipurose app, keeping in mind that it is comming out of my own pocket, it would be Carrara.

Other apps I own include 3DS MAX 3.1, Rhinocerous 2.0 (which is an excellent CAD type nurbs modeler), C4D, Body Paint, Poser, Virtual Nature Studio (VNS), Amorphium Pro, and the version of Universe that comes with the 3D ToolKit. I consider myself to be a newbee to 3D. I've been doing 3D related work as a second "job" for about 3 years, and continually go through the decision making process you are going through now, as I am on a limited budget. In my opinion Carrara 3 is the price/performance/feature leader. TrueSpace is also worth a look in the affordable 3D market, and C4D CE is an excellent value for a rock solid product (especially the free version). I worked with C4D for over 10 hours once without ever rebooting or shutting down the program, there are not many programs (3d or other) that can do this on a windows machine.

With Carrara 3 you get so much for the price. For modeling it has a vertex, spline, metaball, and a tree modeler. It doesn't have a nurbs modeler (which C4D isn't a true nurbs modeler either), but you can accomplish just about anything you might ever need to with modelers in C3. As I've said before, the render engine is amazing. C3 is a bargain if you just got it to render in.

I got real bargain on 3DS MAX, but to be perfectly honest, I got it so that I could put it down in my list of tools, and the rare occasion I might need to use it for model conversion or testing. I find MAX to be a bit user abusive, as opposed to user friendly. Rhino was my first 3D modeling software purchase, as I needed to be able to create models for use in Virtual Nature Studio (VNS). But Rhino is strictly a modeler. I got C4D XL6 and Carrara 1 at almost the same time (at prices I couldn't resist on ebay). I used C4D a lot more than Carrara 1, because I needed to use scaled images to trace off of for making models (which Rhino 2 can also do, but the ability to render the finished product in the same app made C4D the modeler of choice). I upgraded to Carrara 2 because in my opinion it had a better render engine than C4D 6 (that caustics thing again), but the need to use reference images for model creation kept me using C4D for modeling. With Carrara 3, I can now trace off of images for model creation, so I plan on doing most of my work with C3 now.

The real difference between Carrara and the high end apps is workflow, 3rd party support (plugins), and scripting/SDK power/flexibility. But for this "extra" offered in the high end apps, there is a big price tag attached, not only in the cost of the software, but also in the cost of training, with a big learning curve. Of course the cost of upgrading to the newest version (including additional $$$ for plugin upgrades) is much greater with the high end apps too.

Buying 3D software is like any other purchase. Let's say you have your own delivery business, and your buying a vehicle for it. If your delivering primarily small packages the vehicle you buy would be much different from one for delivering large quantities of lumber. You could buy a big truck (say a 2 ton with a van box) for your small package delivery service, in case you decide to start hauling large items in the future. But you'll be stuck with the cost of operating the larger vehicle on the off chance you might need it. Or you could by a Pickup or small delivery van, knowing that once in a while you might have to make large deliveries that will require multiple trips. Here you have the most economical vehicle for the bulk of your business, but your profits might suffer if you start making a lot of large deliveries with it. At this point you would have to make the decision to either purchase a bigger vehicle and expand your delivery service, or continue to focus on small package delivery only. In either case, you'll keep the smaller vehicle because it is still the better tool for delivering small packages.

I view C3 as the smaller vehicle. It can do everything I need, but a few things may require a little extra work to make a final product (where maybe C4D, Lightwave, or MAX have the tools or plugins that would make these occasional unique projects a snap). If I run into something that is really difficult in C3, I do have other support apps that may fit the job, which I haven't spent a lot on. If at some point, my needs expand to where Carrara just doesn't match the demand, I will probably invest in the upgrade for C4D 8 (or what ever the current version might be). But for now, I'm using C3 for almost everything except the landscape work I do in VNS, which really can't be done in any other 3D app (including Maya, XSI, etc.).

I hope this helps you make your decision. There is no "one size fits all" 3d software. But IMHO, in the for what it's worth category, C3 really offers a lot for the price.

billhdz,

I forgot to mention Blender, and you had asked about it. I tried it, before NAN "went under", but it just didn't feel right. It has really taken off again since it found a new home, and is very impresive for a free app. My son (who is a true computer geek, not like his dad who just fakes it :-) loves Blender. But it really has an unusual interface/workflow, and doesn't have a real comprehensive set of import/export options, and it has a rudimentary tool set. I think Blender is more of a programers/tweakers app, with a stong emphasis on keyboard shortcuts (you can use the mouse, but just watch someone who knows the keyboard shortcuts, and it'll make your head spin). It would be a great app to help learn 3D at the technical level (what's really going on behind the interface), and the price is right, but if you want to results without "looking under the hood", I'd wouldn't reccomend it.

billhdz,

Excellent questions, made me think a little more.
Hmmm, which one is more complete, that's a tough one. In many ways, the modeler, and the work flow in Cinema 4dXL 6 is more robust than Carrara, and obviously aimed at the high end commercial market (sweat house?). I think it was designed for people like me who really don't know where they are going until they get there. Cinema has a lot of flexibility, in that many of the modifiers are "non destructive" and can be changed or removed at any time. Cinema 4D has a very good set of snapping tools also.

If you look at some of the reviews on 4D XL 6/7 you'll see a lot on how good the render engine is. Which it is quite nice, but out of the box, C3 beats it hands down! C3 also has a very powerfull and flexible spline modeler. C3 has a very nice smoothing option when importing models, it's a big plus if you have to import some low polygon count models. Of course C3 has the tree modeler, which I think could be used to create just about any "woody" plant. The trees aren't as good as Xfrog or Onyx without tweaking, but what a great bonus to have it available.

Shaders and texturing are about the same in the two, which again shows Carrara's value for the money. Carrara has a UV mapper which has received mixed reviews, but it's there if you need it. There are a lot of free plugins for Cinema 6, and some commercial. There aren't as many free plugins for Carrara, but to be honest, many of the free plugins for Cinema were developed to improve the workflow and speed in preforming repetative or complex tasks. There are several very good commercial plugins available for C3, including one that can make hair (or fields of flowers, or "anything that grows"). Like Carrara, the plugins for it won't break the bank either.

The user interface is completely cutomizable in Cinema 4D, which some people really like. Carrara kinda takes over your desk top, which some people really dislike. To me, it is a little annoying when I want to switch apps, but nothing I can't live with. I do like the implementation of the "sliding trays" in Carrara, and the reduction of the control icon sizes in C3 is a big plus over the earlier versions.

The render engine in C3 has caustics, global illumination (GI), indirect lighting (which is GI, but some vendors fake it), volumetrics, and supports HDR lighting for photo-realistic results. Cinema CE doesn't have caustics (in case you couldn't tell, I just love caustic effects), doesn't have HDR support (except with V8), but does have GI.

I could go on, but I'm seeing a real trend here. Bang for the buck, I think that Carrara 3 is really impressive, is more complete than C4D CE, and hands down has a better renderer (oh, C4D does have multipass rendering, and C3 daoesn't). If you can afford C3, then I'd say go for it, right now I don't think there is anything comparable in the same price range (Carrara 2 got 5 out of 5 stars from Digit, and Carrara 3 got 4.5 out of 5, these are really high ratings from Digit - 3DS Max 6 only got 4.5). Cinema 4D CE+ for $99 is a great deal, and a good way to get into 3D, but you may end up spending more to get an app with HDR and caustics. I don't think anyone mentioned this, but you also get dedicated modeling app with Carrara - Amapi 5.1. I haven't really used it, but Amapi users do some really impressive work.

If you can afford it - get Carrara 3, I honestly don't think you'll be disappointed. If your interested in Cinema 4D, get the magazine freebee on the cover of 3D World, Computer Arts, Digit, or "The Complete 3D Collection 2" from 3D World (you can usually get them at Barns and Nobel, sometimes Hastings and CompUSA). You could then learn one of the mid range "pro" apps for modeling, and export your models to Carrara for beautiful renders. But I think you'll find Carrara 3 will do just about anything you could want, except for things like complex control particle emitters streams with multiple particle types all with unigue physics reactor properties (Hmmm ... controlled chaos)- the stuff you pay the big bucks to get the plugin to get the desired effect in the big buck apps (like XSI).

Good Luck! Let us know what you decide.

Cinema4d CE is the same as Cinema 4dXL, only with render size limitations, no SLA (Smells Like Almonds - a set of pre-made textures and shaders), and of course no manuals. CE+ is the same as XL - sans manuals. I have Cinema 4d XL 6, and for many things, I find Cinema easier to use than Carrara. I really like the way modifiers are handled, because I can go back to the first object I created in a complex model, and modify it. If you are looking for an inexpensive, very powerful 3D app, the "free" cover version Cinema 4d CE is a deal you can't go wrong with.

Now for Carrara 3. I have recently made a comittment to put more energy into learning and using Carrara. Carrara 3 is an outstanding value, and the render engine is awsome for such a reasonably priced piece of software. When the Poser plugin comes out, I will be able to do almost all of my non-landscape 3D work in Carrara.

When Eovia released C3, making the decision between upgrading to C3 or Cinema 4dXL 8x was simple. The upgrade for Cinema would be $800.00, I got the C3 upgrade for about $130.00. With C3 I got a tree maker and caustics, both of these would have cost extra with Cinema (xfrog and advanced render plugin/module), and put the cost well over $1,000.00. Unless you have a business that depends on specific funtionality, or tools, found in Cinema, 3DS Max, Lightwave, etc., C3 is really hard to beat.

Of course, if you want to learn 3D to get a job at a production company, then C3 is not the software to focus on. But if you want to learn the concepts behind 3D, make truely stunning images, and be able to eat out once in a while, then you just can't beat C3. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog, that determines the final outcome. The same is true with software. The cost of the software is not nearly as important as the skill and determination of the user.

If C3 fits within your budget, you really can't go wrong with it. If not, then Cinema 4D CE (or CE+) would be a good choice. It's always worthwhile to check out software on ebay, althought you do need to be careful, always ask the seller if the software comes with a full, legal, upgradeable license. Carrara Studio 1 (in the box) has been going for around $29.00 (or free on magazines from the UK), you could purchase an older version and upgrade, which can save you a lot (I have purchased a lot of software off of ebay, only had a couple of problems, and saved a lot).

Good Luck!

Cinema 4D, Body Paint Carrara 3 Virtual Nature Studio (by 3D Nature - World Construction set with an attitude)