Then I'll see what I can do for you.

I agree. A top idea here!

Rockets? Any particular design in mind? I've been doing a bit with the MFD lately and could also work on the MSD.

Kids get naked. They enjoy getting naked. It's just something that happens in every day life.

Shoot, Bonestructure...I have a 4 year old grandson that you can't keep clothes on in the dead of winter. LOL Message edited on: 03/29/2005 14:03

" But the people who are offended by nudity are sick. They should seek help. We should not feed their sickness by giving in to their demands." I agree with you and is our responsability and duty to remove and try to cure, if possible, those people. And once again, a blanket statement covering people who do not necessarily fit this. Offense at nudity can also result from culture and ethics they were raised by. sigh

So it's no surprise that we'd have pedophiles constantly trying to minimize, excuse, exculpate themselves from their need to post images of naked kids. This is the type of statement that leads to anger and hurt. Mateo...Not everyone who has done an image of a child sans clothing is a pedophile and I am deeply, deeply hurt that you chose to group us all together in this manner.

"Or at least people that are in a reasonable mood." LOL....You must teach me how you get the quote italicized. grin And now, this person in a reasonable mood must seek sleep. I hope you have an enjoyable evening. Before I go...ANY MODS reading this? Can we get feedback about svdl's suggestion, maybe? Or is this discussion truly in vain?

If the minor tweak or two should be along the lines of what svdl suggested, I can live with that and I think others can as well. As for the "rabid" (like the word, btw), I can see where anger came to the front before logic and calmness. I was very rabid myself about it when I first read it. Then hurt set in. Not about any images being removed, but the comments made by others that effected the artists who had made young models sans clothing. Some were way beyond necessary and very far off the mark. Then anger set in again, but finally logic broke through and calmness came. Now, I'm waiting to see and when there is a calm discussion going on, inserting my 2 cents worth. And, uh, Xenophonz? I think we just talked TO each other and logically and calmly. So there is hope, yes? big grin Thank you for your replies. I sincerly mean that.

"I'd say that the TOS change is a fait accompli." Ah, but rules have been changed before and laws have been re-written. Perhaps if debates are presented in a logical and calm manner, then the people in charge of the rules will be more open to considering change. And if not, then there has been a good discussion on the whole with people talking to each other and that in itself is educational. See, I'm an optimist. I believe reason prevails. And there have been some very reasonable suggestions by ones that have posted here.

They are great, Sharyn. I got them also. Wish there were more designs to choose from though.

I know you were agreeing with him. I wasn't saying that you weren't. I was trying to get you to see that it effects you simply because you are a member here and therefore part of the package, so to speak. It may not have effected your gallery, but it still effects you and everyone here in that manner. Believe me, I was not trying to say anything against you in anyway or to say that you were not defending my interests. I will also admit that I saw a chance to make a statement about the way the ones who have had to remove images have been made to feel. I'm sorry if you thought otherwise and I really appreciate your defending my interests. Now I have to get myself to sleep. Goodnight.

JVRenderer....I do make faerie images. Most of my images are of those wonderful, mystical creatures. And I have been reading about them since I have known how to read. Funny thing, in 99% of those stories, the faeries were small, ageless and unclothed. But, there are people in the world who think this is not the right way to portray them. There are people who think nudity cannot be innocent and pure. And since we are creating images and posting them on a public website that is owned by others, we do have to follow the rules. This saddens me more than anyone will ever know. It's not having to put clothing on characters that look exceptionally young. I do that already. What saddens and angers me at the same time is the way this was brought about. I have some very good friends who are affected by this. Not because of any deliberate intention. But these friends have now been to feel as though they did something intentionally dirty and wrong and even criminal. One friend in particular feels as though she has been accused of a most horrible crime. And because she used a prop for a character that no one had ever made clothes for. This is wrong. These friends and ones like them that had no bad intention when they posted their images and should not be made to feel this way when it was done in innocence. You say this doesn't effect you because you don't use child models? I'm sorry. I disagree. This effects everyone that comes here whether to post, to buy, to sell or to lurk. That is the message Armorbeast is trying to get across.

The most sensible statement on this entire issue I have read thus far. Thank you, armorbeast!

"I wanted to let you all know that we are going to allow the shirtless boy images. We will remove images where the gender is questionable at our discretion." "Sorry, but this is really silly. What is the difference between a seven-year-old boy's and a seven-year-old girl's chest? The fact that everybody knows what these chests will turn into in several years? If so, then the problem is not in the chest, but in the mind of the viewer." Not only that, but do you really think that only females can be targeted by pedophiles?

Okay...you know what? I've tried five times to answer you about the Hitler remark and eveything else you posted. But I give up. What's the use? Apparently, you have your mind made up and the powers that be can do no wrong and we who make fairy images have no right to protest over censorship, so I'll just go into my little corner and be quiet while everyone tells me what to draw...what to create...what to look at...what to think.