Yep, I just found Steve's response, sorry for speaking before checking (although it was kind of far back ;) ) Saxon, people who don't need the new features would be fools to buy P5, at least at this time. There is only one significant improvement (as far as I can tell) to the old Poser 4: the new Library system. Everything else seems the same. Many might not consider that one improvement to be worth $129.

I agree CL will not change the protection, it's too late anyway. Although they may change it later. There was a thread on the issue last weekend in which plenty of people said they wouldn't buy P5 because of the protection method. We were asked to "wait until after the holiday" for a response from CL. No response yet. Many people feel ProPack was a ripoff for many different reasons. And if P5 doesn't turn out to be the great product that's expected, CL just might have to close their doors.

I'm not nearly as worried about the character appearance as I am about the program itself. As stated, the characters will evolve. Can we get any info in the new interface? From the shots I've seen, there haven't been any changes other than the additional rooms and dials for the new features. Will we be able to adjust dial labels so they're readable? Any improvement in the magnets? How about camera adjustments? The camera tools look exactly the same as P4. Have there been any lock-ups for the testers? How fast is the renderer? What happens when you try to open a file and the texture is not where it should be? Hmmm... No dual-processor support, no network rendering, no apparant improvements to the interface. Rewritten from the ground up? I don't think so. It's looking more and more like Poser 4 with a few new features. Oh well, I guess it'll still be worth the upgrade price if those Poser 4 problems have been fixed.

Kupa: I'm sorry if you think I have an axe to grind, but I don't. All I ever wanted from CL were straight, honest answers like the one you just gave. I'm an adult, I can handle disappointing answers as long as they are true. What I don't like are excuses, put-offs, and runarounds. I am straight with people I do business with and expect the same from them. Praxis: P4 freezes whenever you tell it to stop looking for textures on items with a lot of textured material zones. It doesn't matter what OS you're using. Maclean: No, actually I think the Windows Excuse issue was my last major retort; I am done ranting (yay!). As for the price issue, I don't care what it is either. Kupa doesn't need to give it. I only mentioned it because others here wanted to know and CL wouldn't say. All they had to do (to keep me happy, anyway) was just come out and tell us they aren't going to tell us.... or they don't know what it's going to be, or whatever. As long as it's the truth. Well, that's it I guess. Thanks to everyone for listening and responding.

Thanks for clearing up the date issue, you don't have one yet. As for the upgrade price and other details, you either don't know them or you just aren't saying. AFter all, you ARE the boss aren't you? Waiting for a web site revamp is just another lame excuse. (sorry for being so blunt, but you got off easy compared to that car dealer.) And for all the flag-wavers who like to blame Windows for Poser lockups... another BS excuse. I've read more than a few times in this forum statements like "Poser is the only program that does this," and "...it only happens with Poser." And that's been my experience as well. I can have several memory & cpu intensive programs running and not have a hiccup. Poser could be running by itself and freeze. So please stop blaming Microsoft, they're innocent on this one.

Mr Whisenant: Thank you sir for coming in and confirming what many in this thread already knew...that the people at CL are the same ones who developed Poser. CL themselves state it on their web site: "Fans of the application will be pleased to know that Curious Labs is made up of the core engineering and development staff that worked on Poser at MetaCreations." But unfortunately, many of the flag-wavers aren't interested in facts, just excuses. That was one of my beefs originally, that the members here, instead of demanding fair treatment, have adopted an attitude of complacency and even began making up their own excuses for CL's behavior. Speaking of that: Leather-guy, Okay, now it's been a week since siggraph ended. And 4 days since Mr Cooper got back. But STILL no upgrade price, no official release date, and no updated web page. What's the excuse now? By the way, I can update a web page with new text and pictures in about an hour. And is Mr C the only guy at CL that can put info on their web site? jjsemp: "Poser 5 IS the bug fix for Poser 4" LOL! You're right, unfortunately. Or, let's HOPE your right. Can anyone here compare this situation to any other type of purchase? Lets say I buy a new car, the MitchuToy ExCusmi. It runs great! Gets me from point A to B perfectly. Of course, two of the windows only go down halfway and I can't read the radio's digital readout, and the trunk lid sticks. Oh, but those are just minor inconveniences, I'm sure they'll get them fixed soon. Oh, and one other thing, once in awhile, the engine just dies for no reason. But thats no big thing. I just get out and push it off the road and it restarts in a few minutes. No big thing. Oh, I just called the dealer about the "inconveninces." He said I'd have to wait and buy next year's model. They'll be fixed then. But they won't fix the problems with my model. Oh, I can't wait for the next model year so I can buy another ExCusmi that works. Kupa: Thank you for the straight answer on crosstalk. Very nice to hear. Now can we have the release date and upgrade price???

Carolly, I'm sorry about the NDA crack, it was uncalled for. Actually, I never trashed another kids coloring book either. I guess my real problem with CL, and you guys is twofold: Point 1. I firmly believe CL could have easily fixed the problems with P4 but purposely held back. Why? Well, if the hobbiests had a well-working, up-to-date Poser 4, they might not buy Poser 5. (This isn't about me, I'd buy P5--if it works--for the new features because I'll use them.) Point 2. I also firmly believe that the acquiescent attitude here convinced CL that they could get away with Point 1. Kendra, no, I'm usually very optimistic on matters. But three years of P4 with no attempt from its owners to try to fix it, makes me skeptical of anything CL does. Leather-guy and everyone else gushing over the on-coming Poser 5: You've all waved the flag of "give them time, let them make it right" for a year now and I'm right with you on that. I hope it's bug-free (major bugs anyway) and works on 98% of the machines out there. But given CL's track record with Poser 4, do you really trust them to fix 5 if there is anything wrong with it? Or will we get, "Sorry, no time, working on Poser 6."?

Oh, I forgot another point I wanted to make... There is STILL no upgrade price published. Can't use siggraph as an excuse any more, it's been over for days. Also, "End Of Summer" is not a release date. Don't be suprised if it's in December or even NEXT summer. I seriously hope I'm wrong, but I won't be suprised if I'm right.

First of all, let me thank all you CL flag-wavers for coming on and prooving me right :) And thanks to you who agreed with some or all of my points, I was suprised at that. Now, please let me clear up was has been misunderstood (or missed) from my original post. I never said Poser was a bad program; it's a great program, just clunky, buggy, and old. And I did say that Cooper, et al were very nice people and acknowledged that they come here and post. But that doesn't fix the bugs in Poser, does it? A lot of you liked to compare CL with Microsoft (or "any other software co"). No, Bill Gates doesn't pop in on Access or Windows forums (that I know of). But go to MS's site guess what you'll find tons of? PATCHES and FIXES for their software going back several iterations. You'll find that on "any other software company's" site, too. At least the ones that charge 500+ for their stuff. My Pshop 7 checks the web for updates EVERY TWO WEEKS. (I know what the flag wavers will come back with but it will be invalid, too. There's just no convincing them. And I didn't start the comparison, they did.) Another issue: My main beef isn't with P5. It's with the P4 bugs and the fact CL has left them there for years. So, Carolly, your argument about me being new here doesn't wash. I've been a P4 user at least as long as you. And I know you signed the NDA, I've read that fact about a dozen times. Yes, you know things we don't and Cooper came to your house. That's good. Another issue: Honesty. In a later thread, operaguy posted a msg he'd gotten from a CL employee stating P5 won't have multi-processor support. Brilliant. That probably means no network rendering, either. Oh, but we have strand-based hair!! The employee went on to say that "the underlying features are the same for Poser 4 and 5." Weren't we told Poser 5 was being "completely rewritten from scratch?" Wasn't that one of their excuses for taking so long and not fixing P4? I believe it was. Somebody fibbed. Well, that's not everything, but I'm done for now. Thanks for listening.

The second part of his question was: "Will we still be able to export to 3D Studio Max and all the other programs??????" That has nothing to do with plug ins.

The paddle-ball/thermos was a reference to "The Jerk." ("This is all i need")

The manual does not cover file export?